Valla's Bequest Interaction *SOLVED*

thans alot for the sugestions :smiley:

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After watching some runs by Woogmoog today, it seemed like there was some truth to the Valla’s producing extra primaries but the difference in speed was not statistically significant with the limited number of GR tests made (we noted a correlation with low significance). Even if we showed statistical significance, it wouldn’t answer the question as to why Valla’s is better.

As for theories, the most likely theory I am considering now is that it has something to do with ICD optimization as suggested by Landy and Kindergarten. If this is indeed the case, I have a great test idea that can maybe reveal the gimmick once I do some additional tests with DiEoxidE.

The test I plan to do is have 3 players: a strafer and 2 targets in the Scorched Chapel. The attacker will Strafe in place as DiEoxidE did before but this time with one target in melee range and the other at varying distances in a colinear formation with the attacker so that the pierces on the close-target player hit the distant player too.

By varying the distance between the two targets, we can adjust the delay between the melee-range proc and the distant pierce proc. If there is indeed some magic ICD difference that Valla’s is able to access, it should show up as the distance between the melee target and ranged target divided by the strafe projectile speed!

If this works, we can also test Rocket Storm, Demolition, and even varying amounts of attack speed to see if there is some way to get around needing Valla’s in the first place.

Lastly, if this is the secret gimmick that made Valla’s work, it could also explain why DiEoxidE and myself didn’t seem to notice the Valla’s effect when tested it ourselves since we often Strafe-weave (interweave Hungering Arrows while Strafing) which could mess-up the ICD timing enough to make it less viable.

I will update this thread tomorrow with the results of this test. I am hoping that this will be the secret of Valla’s Bequest and end this debate once and for all. However, if the test fails, then we will continue our search and try to come up with new ideas.

Edit: I made some adjustments to the conclusions section of the original post to better reflect my stance on the issue and explain why I am hesitant to claim anything even with some indirect evidence.

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I’ve done very little testing outside of PTR, but I have found a bit of an odd interaction that leads me to believe that the auto-fire generators have a bit of math translation that causes some weird stuff.

It’s like, the math is actually firing generators at the Strafe tic rate, but is then suppressed to not exceed 6/sec. It’s like some things are taking the variable before that suppression step, and some things after. I didn’t go deep with the testing like these guys, but things like Sash of Knives/moonlight ward and even wizard spike seemed to proc more than the attacks shown.

On my N6G4 testing, Moonlight Ward was the fastest hitting thing I had ever seen in D3. It doesnt seem to roll damage that quickly on a Wiz, and I tested that extensively about 4 years ago.

PS. Stacking attack speed seems like the easy to test this. The 6/sec is a control, so with a 1.0proc skill like Entangled Shot, it would be easy to count if its triggering “on attack” effects. It may just be firing from strafe and the primary both however. Like I said, I didn’t do frame analysis like these gents do.

Pretty sure this is the thing too.

And once the perfect attackspeed breakpoint is figured out, theres no further need for vallas at all.

I just hope it doesnt break the game completely once its figured out, otherwise the ban hammer will hit even harder after S21…

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We will be doing new test on my stream live, starting at 9:30pm EST. Feel free to check it out live if you don’t want to wait for the vid link afterwards :slight_smile:

twitch.tv/dieoxide

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What would I need to donate for a full N6G4 min/max stream?:grin::grin:

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THE UPDATE of ALL UPDATES

The tests I wrote about earlier proved to be conclusive and I have redid the entire original post to reflect on those changes. I have removed the earlier tests since they didn’t show any effect. Special thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

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So there’s the confirmation that it spawns extra projectiles. How much does this alter damage output, and is it enough to explain the low-Paragon 150 clears? How does it relate to pulling Missile-Dampening elites? Is it only this item which is responsible, or are there other methods to achieve the same results? Is this difference in projectile spawning “worth” lowering attack speed enough to take advantage?

No, that has to be some well-hidden bug. If a paragon 1700 got ALL missile dampening elites, MAYBE it could be possible to spawn the RG in enough time, but I don’t know how they killed the RG in a reasonable amount of time (even with Stricken). We need a video of this.

Rocket Storm can sort of do the same thing. Also you can just aim for different Strafe breakpoints.

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Exactly, which was one of the points I raised earlier. There is not just one thing to test here; it is more than just Valla’s Bequest, despite some of the rumblings from others.

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Are these results also an explanation for the inconsistent primary rate that has been observed earlier in general? AFAIR, there has been some reports about 3, 4, 5 primaries per second. Could that be explained by “filling the cooldown gap” (but with other methods like moving around, increasing the distance to the target) as well?

Also, if I understand it correctly, Valla would have the potential to double the amount of damage, or ~5GR. But more realistically, it would be around 2-4 GR tiers.

Thanks again for the testing! Greatly appreciated!

We didn’t notice double but possibly 1.5x at certain breakpoints. We’ll leave the breakpoint testing for others but we found a good test setup using 3 players in the Scorched Chapel.

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Ok, so Valla does not increase the Primary rate (in an ideal case) from “every other attack” to “every attack”, but to something in between?

Yes, but it depends on the breakpoint and if you’re moving towards or away from the target (maybe like doppler shift lol).

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Even if it were double, I’ve managed to get my attack speed up pretty high using Gogok. I can’t remember 100% without loading up my PS4 copy, but I believe it was at or near 3aps. Doubling the damage output via this magic trick doesn’t sound like it would necessarily have any more impact than just going with the higher attack speed, unless I’m not properly understanding the mechanics at work.

We also have to think about Echoing Fury. I messed with it a little, but not enough to determine whether it was having the effect I wanted. There’s noise in the data because of the loss of one item for the ability to use it.

There are no low paragon solo DH 150 clears. How is this falsehood being repeated when the leaderboards are publicly available for all regions?

As of this writing, there are now 10 DHs with 150 clears, and the lowest paragon player among them is paragon 9938.

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Wonderful work Iria et al. Thanks for putting in all the effort with testing and updating the thread! <3

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Thanks for your work all together :slight_smile:!

Now we can happily salvage Vallas and use something better yay

Did you even read the re-written post? I’d say they’ve established it’s BiS due to the extra HA it generates.

Hold on your hand crossbows for now. It’ll only be worth salvaging if Blizz decides it needs to be nerfed.

It isn’t BiS in all cases but it isn’t worthless. It actually depends on your Strafe attack speed breakpoint. We showed that at some attack speeds (under 1.6666 or over 2.5001) Valla’s has no effect, while at other attack speeds, it has a very strong effect. Furthermore, the Rocket Storm Strafe rune can emulate much of the same process without needing to run Valla’s in the first place.

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