Only in groups, not solo. Now this build is unplayable in groups because is still severely lagging. What is more there are already two meta group builds clearing 150 GR easily, so what is wrong with third build also clearing 150 GR in party?
But more important is solo clear potential, Wizard is the weakest class regarding solo pushing high GR’s!
Idk when the game wasn’t constantly trying to boot me and unplayable the lag was a lot better…I even had PE on and thats with this bad PTR server that obviously having issues since we cannot even play.
So I’d be very hesitant to say this didn’t fix twister lag with all other things working against it. Not like there’s a thousand twister wizards out there pulling 4 man meta group twisters right off the bat here on day one testing, I’m going to guess when it goes live it will perform much better. We’ll see.
And yeah obviously that was back then and this is now and we do need a big bump up, but I’d rather see it in a more balanced way then WW Twisters or leave, I feel like hydras could have used another bump up, obviously the other sets but they’re less concerned about that right now it seems.
Hi Frank. I agree, I also expected this outcome.
Again, I agree this would have also been my expected outcome. However, in this case I don’t think we can look at items that grant “all runes” for precedent, since that could be different than when an item only grants one extra rune. Items that grant “all runes” commonly applies to super forms like Archon, Shadow Power, and Wrath of the Berserker, or to utility skills like Blood Rush, Furious Charge, and Slow Time. Many of these don’t have updated weapon damage per se, but certainly give all the effects.
That said, I’m sure there must be some precedent for the behavior of items that grant one or more additional (but not all) runes. Gazing Demise, for example, says “Spirit Barrage gains the Phantasm rune.” Does this item grant both the effect and the increased damage? It’s been long since I’ve played WD.
Here is a link to a topic that lists items that grant additional runes or all runes. Something in this list should provide precedent for expected behavior of the updated Twisted Sword. Many of these specifically state “gains the effect of x rune,” whereas Twisted Sword is worded differently.
https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo3/comments/d57u34/gear_that_gives_all_runes/
Raging Storm is an unusual rune in the game where multiple casts actually cause it to essentially cast a new skill with a new weapon damage percent. Is there any other precedent in the game for that behavior?
This is the case for Raekors Set for example , thats why i also thought that it will incluse the dmg of RS.
im curious, how are they able to access the ptr right now? its been down for a couple of days
I’ve performed a quick mechanics test with the new Twisted Sword. Below are my findings. Please remember that I wasn’t able to confirm the exact weapon% damage values, seeing as this is without a min-max weapon, however, this gives a good approximation.
Confirmed also that Wicked Wind 5 stack is doing about half the damage of Unruned 5 stack, even though Twisted sword gives the Raging Storm rune now.
Twister is stackable on terrain and corners again. Corner stacked twister lasted full duration. Damage of the corner stacked twister at the beginning of the video is the same as tested without corner stacking, meaning the twister isn’t disappearing when corner stacked.
Damage is scaling up with Twisted sword multiplier (8.5x at 5 stacks) and is approximately 5 times as much when Twister is combined to 5 stacks.
Tested runes: Unruned, Raging Storm, Wicked Wind.
Damage values were approximately:
~100k avg. without Twisted sword, unruned.
~250k avg. with 1 stack Twisted Sword, Unruned.
~4250k avg. with 5 stack Twisted Sword, Unruned.
Damage is approximately = 100k * 8.5 (TS multi) * 5 (stacks).
~50k avg. without Twisted sword, Wicked Wind.
~125k avg. with 1 stack Twisted Sword, Wicked Wind.
~2,125k avg. with 5 stack Twisted Swork, Wicked Wind.
Damage is approximately = 50k * 8.5 (TS multi) * 5 (stacks).
~100k avg. without Twisted sword, Raging Storm.
~250k avg. with 1 stack Twisted Sword, Raging Storm.
~4250k avg. with 5 stack Twisted Sword, Raging Storm.
Damage is approximately = 100k * 8.5 (TS multi) * 5 (stacks).
Tested: v2.6.10.71042.
I have done the test and i can confirm that the below are the dmg formulas, i spend couple of hours trying to figure them out. I worked out the numbers for two states : Twister - no Rune and Twister - WW rune
No rune:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411394293521973251/769395643239628870/unknown.png
WW rune:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411394293521973251/769420075555749908/unknown.png
There is no bug, it is working correctly.
As per the equations, Going with no rune yeilds higher dmg than using ww, simply cause you drop from 1525% weapon damage to 835% weapon damage.keeping everything the same, the BASE dps dropped from 10k to 5.5K just by changing rune to ww.
As you can see, the base dps is used each time you cast a twister; for each twister it is calculated by multiplying the base dps by 1+n(150/100) where n is the number of the twister , and then added to the next twister. finally, the RS rune dps is added and is calculated based on the base dps multiplied by the RS multiplier and the Twistedsowrd multiplier.
Remember, When we get a Tornade ( after casting two twisters ) , the 3rd time we cast twister the calculations doesn’t include Twisted Sword multiplier for 3 twisters , because only ONE Twister is available (the other 2 had already formed a Tornado). It follows the same pattern for the 4th and 5th twister.
Hope this helps. Please feel free to correct me if anything is missing
You are missing the part where the Raging storm rune should be applied even when choosing wicked wind since it is applied through twister sword. An example would be any item that applies 2 or all runes of a particular skill. Wizard for instance have Crown of The Primus where you gain all the slow time runes regardless of which one you choose.
Interaction between twisted sword and Wicked wind is bugged indeed.
So does this mean that the tooltip of the Twisted Sort icon on the bottom is wrong when it shows me 5 stacks but those are 5 twisters merged to one and thus i only get the dmg-multiplier for 1 twister from the sword?
Does this then mean it would be like this:
Cornerstack 5 twisters for dmg —> cast 4 twisters elsewhere to get the dmg-buff?
That’s not what I saw. Damage was multiplied by each Twisted sword multiplier stack, even if Twister was combined past 2 stacks.
Even a single combined Twister (5 stack) appears to benefit from the full Twisted sword multiplier of 8.5x.
Mhh well but that is what Cloud wrote, or did i get sth wrong there?
Anyhow…ill stick to Necro for S22. Not placing anything in corners, not worriying about getting oneshotted, just run around and pew pew xD
Or lagging out the group, or dealing half-damage as other classes, or not having a speed build…
Raging Storm and Wicked Wind both have different damage values on the runes. There is a conflict when they are combined. I don’t think the lower number from Wicked Wind should override the higher number from Raging Storm. That sounds like a bug to me.
Even if you don’t think its a bug, there are also other reasons why we should have the Raging Storm damage. The build is underpowered with the Wicked Wind rune, even with Deathwish in the 4th cube slot. This forces us to play without stationary twisters, which means stacking on corners. It’s not a fun way to play IMO.
I have added a video showing the build playstyle and my thoughts in my first post.
I had a long discussion with Northwar, he had a simpler calculations that shows the same values, even more accurate. I was following what blizzard tooltip mentioned precisly on Twisted Sword , and on the runes tooltip.
The Twisted Sword: The Twisted Sword: Energy Twister damage is increased by 125-150% for each Energy Twister you have out up to a maximum of 5. The Raging Storm rune is automatically applied to Energy Twister and allows the tornado to merge with 3 additional Energy Twisters.
Raging storm: When two Energy Twisters collide, they merge into a tornado with increased area of effect that causes 3200% weapon damage as Arcane over 6 seconds.
I am not sure if it matters when they refer two twisters as Tornado , and whether that means you got twister sword buff applied to the Tornado, or not. This is the descripency multiplier between my calculations and Northwar:
Northwar multiplier
1: 2.5
2: 8
3: 16.5
4: 28
5: 42.5
Cloud:
1: 2.5
2: 8
3: 16.25
4: 28.5
5: 42.25
This is the formula that northwar discovered
it’s 835% x 5 for WW
1525% x 5 for other runes
1525% x 5 + 150% for Raging storm
in Northwar calculations, there is no RS dmg multiplier envolved, so it’s a proof that you only get the two twisters merge into a tornado without any dmg benefit from RS rune, only twisted sword.
In my calculations, it shows that you get the dmg multiplier from RS rune. Northwar thinks it’s wrong. I am not trying to defend my equation, so what i am trying to find is a consistant equation that confirms that we are benefitting from RS rune dmg multiplier. how to proove it, is something i am not sure of
what really confuses me is the following:
Also, having 5 twister formed out there + casting two more won’t help, they are not colliding as they are limited to 5. So i am still unable to find a way to prove my findings. Thought to share what i think with you guys, so if any theocrafter can think of a way to prove whether we get RS dmg or not, that would be great
I think you may have missed it, but it’s already been proven. It was proven in the first 12 hours, man.
I have just went through a very thorogh testing, Northwar numbers are 99% close to what i was getting, my numbers were 4-5% off. I guess this is a confirmation that we are not getting RS rune dmg multiplier. RIP
cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/762453206814031872/769931252388069386/unknown.png
Tested stacking Twister up to 5, looking for area damage. Twisted sword + Etched Sigil Cubed.
Here’s what I saw. If the first Twister that starts a Twister stack is:
Can I get help confirming this?
If this indeed the case it would explain why I performed better when dropping AD as compared to using it in push. My cast rotation thus far has been to typically start building Twister stacks with an auto-cast ES proc.
Even if I were to adjust my behavior, there would still be some twister auto cast stack starts that ‘get through’ so to speak, and combined without being eligible for Area Damage.
Devalues AD in solo in my mind. On top of Twister stacking and resource management for Aquila, we’d now have to worry about our cast rotation when starting new Twisters? Too much. I might stick with 50% AD pushes for easymode if this is the case.
Thank you and Northwar for your investigations. This item design makes sense to me. It’s easier to understand for a stacking mechanic.
However, I think they should at a bare minimum, change the tooltip on Raging Storm to make it more clear, if indeed the intent is for scaling with:
I am still worried about Valthek’s ruining the gameplay (straight lines are terrible for Twister). However, now that we can combine Twisters up to 5, and Twisters redirect in the direction you were casting when combined, you can sort of ping pong combine Twisters into an area if need be.
Basically, the implementation of the higher stacking gave us slightly more control.
Agreed that corner stacking is still the better method if positioning allows.
I’m fairly conflicted on this one; On one hand, I want more rune diversity. I’ve been enjoying Mistral Breeze, for example.
However, corner stacking is more challenging. It definitely alters how you play the build, maps. Decision making is more varied. Most players may not enjoy it. I suppose I am odd in that I enjoy this type of gameplay.
As far as increasing the base rune damage of Wicked wind (and therefore the scaling value for stacking via Twisted Sword’s Raging Storm stacking mechanic), I am in support of this.
However, I think increasing the base rune damage of Wicked Wind to the same level as other runes makes it too advantageous.
I’d place it somewhere in between, at about 1150%. An increase, but not equivalent.
To be clear, I’d prefer balance between a Wicked Wind playstyle and a non Wicked Wind / corner stacking playstyle.
This way, players could choose which style they want, rather than be seemingly forced into one playstyle or the other.
Yeah, wondering about the intent here too. The build can’t fit in all of the designated multpliers without it.
All twisters that are casted from channeling (off hand) does not proc AD, i think that’s been the case long time ago as per Achilles. You need to manually cast twister to proc area dmg.
3rd scenario - If you have twisters casted in place and then you start channeling, the combined twister will proc Area dmg as per sVr.
If they fix the Twisted sword where the dmg of RS is considered , we still won’t be playing ww (as high end players with max dps intent). simply coz ww dmg + RS dmg < any rune dmg+ Rs dmg.
If you want to play a controlled build, you will need WW dmg to be buffed. If you want a 150 TK , you will need not only to buff WW, but also to get the dmg from RS rune.
Play by the wall is hard, and inconsistant. Wizard already DR everything so the barb can’t move things as flexible as it can. not to mention the tight spot. So far we can’t really test the max dmg we can get with the current build and bugs coz it’s hard to apply the rules , where u stack trash and ensure ur twisters are not off…etc