Iron Rose specifically says “Blood Nova”, it’s using that rune of death nova.
When you play the build you have Blood Nova on your bars, but don’t cast it (this is due to a bug in Simulacrum that requires it on your bars otherwise they don’t cast it). The damage that it does if you do cast it is no different from the one that is cast automatically from Iron Rose.
im not running simulacrm.
yes i have see they cast your rune, was running inariuse with bone nova lol was fun.
maybe i was not clear on my question
if their is not life spent on skill cast. Then trag does not give damage bonus?
(your life spending abillitys deal 10,000%)
so do they have to spend life? or would a free cast count?
my guess is no, so the free nova is not boosted by trag,
but fpick an bloodtide only.
now on the other side is the skill blood nova that is not getting damage from
fpick becase this only damages with syphon, is this correct?
ty
Not quite so. The manual cast of Blood Nova can proc area dmg while autocast one from the Iron rose can’t. And area dmg is a big dmg boost especially in parties with barb pulling / stomping
It does not say “when you spend life”, it says “life spending abilities”.
It doesn’t matter if they actually spend life… They’re an ability that baseline spends life, so they’re counted.
Blood Nova will get the bonus whether it’s free or not.
That’s not really what is being talked about. As valid as that point may be, area damage has nothing to do with whether or not Blood Nova from Iron Rose is using the damage bonus from your set.
Logically it doesn’t buff free Blood Nova . Cos it is ‘free’. So it doesn’t spend blood. And the set clearly states that ‘Your Life-spending abilities deal 10,000%’. But could be a bug on PTR . So I’m not sure Blizz stick to the logic here 
thank you, then my next qestion is
the free nova should hit for more than the skill because of fpick, in my testing free nova hits little higher, and it seams that the skill only gets the set, and the free nova only gets the fpick not the set. im only testing the skill, not using simulacrum, this could be why it looks bugged to me, ? or it could just be me lol.
ty
to be clear im running same skill set on trag and inarius nova AotD, the dirence on the builds is trag i run skill nova instead of comand skelly. ty
Well, going by a Bayesian assessment, if the free Blood Nova from the Iron Rose did not get the 10,000% buff from the Trag armor, how are people pushing into the 130s+ using that build? The multiplier from the FPick, BTB, and IR would not be enough, no?
depends, the clue i see is the skill should not due simulare damage,
the skill is not getting help from rose or fpick. this is fact
for my set up
free nova hits about 20t-40t first hit
skill nova is 10t-30t ish it is under preforming
pick- 300 +(20x10)=500damage
rose 50x10= 500damage after losing 10% life
pick /rose combo is 1000 only while blood syphon that hits 3 max and lose of 10% life.
the skill should be missing zeros in comparison or im missing something?
so if free nova is getting set bonus and off hand and wepon then their shold be more of a diffrence in damage, skill vs free nova im not seeing it.
again skill nova does not get fpick wepon damage. only blood syphon.
so somthing is off
im not counting tibe blade or looking at simulacrum, just skill vs free skill something is off i cant see it? ty
Ok… So I may have gotten this wrong before.
When casting Siphon Blood your all abilities will do 300% (or 600% single target) more damage to the targets affected by your Siphon Blood.
So if you’re NOT casting Siphon Blood (just casting Death Nova directly), you do NOT get that 300% (or 600%) bonus.
Siphon Blood Power Shift stacks up to 200% damage increasing the damage of your Siphon Blood spell… but this now also applies to “all skills”.
I think this means that “all skills” deal 20% extra damage (stacking up to 10 times) each time they hit the target. It’s not clear if each spell has to hit 10 times to cap, or if you just need to hit 10 times with any combinations of spells to cap all spells.
You will therefore gain the power from Power Shift on Death Nova (and the free cast Blood Nova), without even needing to cast Siphon Blood. It’s possible that this is incorrect and the other spells only BENEFIT from the stacks but don’t apply them.
Iron Rose increases the damage of all Death Nova casts for every 10% of health that you lose. This triggers when casting Siphon Life (which does not drain your life because this ability has no life cost).
This means that it’s the Blood Nova being triggered by Iron Rose that’s increasing those stacks, which means that although it doesn’t appear to actually be taking life from you (it may still be though, it’s just hard to see because you’re healing for more through Siphon Blood), it’s behaving as though it is, and therefore it is subject to the damage bonus.
So you’re getting 10,000% + 500% + 600% (single target) + 200% (after 10 hits).
That should equate to 1,300% a total of 230,000% damage.
If you were not triggering the set bonus it would just be 1,300% which clearly would not be doing anything.
The direct cast of Death Nova would not be subject to the 600% bonus, so you’d only get 170,000% total damage, which is about 74% of what you’d get by casting Siphon Blood.
This looks correct based on my limited testing.
again the skill vs free if it is coded (key) as written, witch it may not be, then the skill alone shold be a extra zero more than free cast, but it is a tenth .1 less than free cast nova from testing, and again fpick only gives damage when syphon only. fact, fpick does nothing for skill nova. same with off hand rose only gives bouns to syphon, so your math is not correct
fpick you can not parellel cast to get a benifit to any other skill/ exept for camand seklls/ mage hitting but cast prior to syphon and aotd , only skills that hit while syphoning get this due to not time of effect listed like mantel o chanelling shoulders.
syphon fpick- 300 base+ (20% x 10stacks, no time for effect listed?) =200% +300base= 500% x2 single target=1000% max for fpick
rose only while syphoning 50% stacking 10 times =500 making max syphon free cast damage single target 1500%
skill nova set 10,000 trag or inarius sets
if set and fpick max damage would be 11500% not counting tide blade @ 400 per max 25.
note the zero missing now again this depends were this is applied in the equation
11500 free /single
11000 more than one
10000 skill not syphoning
so ya this looks right it is missing a tenth so ok thank you the set is benifiting the free nova (that answers my qestion) but the skill is not getting fpick and rose
so it this ok for skill not to get fpick or rose damage, the main damage is syphon free nova? then why equip skill just or simulacrum?
thank you this has helpped alot, im going to now look at simlacrum vs not see if a diffrent skill will be better, if this is all true then simulacrum and skill nova are not needed in current build. back to testing thank you again this was usful
I think you’re drawing conclusions incorrectly.
Firstly, it’s practically impossible to test controlled situations in game.
Because a single hit can vary massively due to min/max damage done, distance from enemy, debuffs applied (which you can’t see), and buffs applied to your spells (which you can’t always see), you can’t tell what is and is not applied. It’s also practically impossible to count how many enemies are included in the calculation unless you’re recording your play and going through it frame by frame and looking at what was hit.
There’s a ton of different abilities that can be hitting your target while you’re casting Blood Siphon. You already mentioned Mages & Skeletons, but there’s also Revive Minions, Golem, Bone Armor (from Inarius 6pc), Army of the Dead, Curses (that cause damage to enemies standing in them) and passive damage abilities etc… Also some runes of Land of the Dead, and even the pestilence set can all do damage while you’re casting Siphon Blood.
When you cast nova from your bars, you’re NOT getting the Siphon Blood damage bonus, and you might not be getting the Power rune bonus either until the stacks build up (but most stuff dies before you get to that point). So comparing your hits from the Iron Rose nova with the manually casted Nova are likely going to be different by magnitudes without any bugs, just because you don’t have the 300-600% damage bonus from Siphon Life and likely don’t have the +200% damage from the Power rune either.
So you’re effectively losing out on up to +1200% damage.
What’s 1bn + 1200%? it’s about 13bn. That’s an extra zero.
So yeah, you might be seeing +1 0 in your damage numbers when using Siphon Life, but that’s because it’s working correctly.
Simulacrum is definitely worth it because you get 3x the damage output by picking up Blood and Bone. It also passively drains your hp while you have Haunted Visions equipped with Simulacrum active, which triggers procs when using Trag’Ouls, resulting in more damage more often - even if it is only a 1% increase.
In theory, sticking the pet gem in your gear would help too, because Simulacrums are considered pets to some degree (and can die), so giving them a 40%+ damage bonus effectively increases your damage by 280%+
Say WHAT!? Simulacrum’s aren’t pets, are they? If they can benefit from Enforcer, I’ve been playing things wrong for… well… ever…
Hahaha… I don’t think they do, but there was some weird stuff going on during the release of the MoBC set with them where it was confusing. Because they’re pets but not classed as pets, at least not in all cases etc…
It doesn’t hurt to try it out though, but it’s still good to use them even without that gem.
Does auto BN prock Bastion’s Will?
You’ll have to test that one yourself… I don’t think a single Necro build uses focus and restraint, it’s kind of anti-necro.
Well youre useing a generator and a spender so on paper…
But not in a way that’s functional for that pair.
You generally don’t use a generator as a Necro and we have really poor resource recovery. We get most of our resource from globes, devour, or pet attacks etc… and not all of our damage spends resource (when using Trag’s we don’t have any resource spenders and the resource that we do spend in most specs is Corpses, which doesn’t count).
It’s hard to think of a build where we might hit Bone Spikes or Cursed Scythe, followed by a resource spender, followed by another generator.
Siphon Blood builds typically don’t have any spenders beside Blood Mages, and when using those you typically use Singularity so you dump all of your essence at once. Your buff will typically fall off between casts.
If however F&R triggers on the Blood Nova, then yes that could be a good option, but you’re sacrificing 2 ring slots to equip it, and have to put rorg in the cube if you’re using A/CC/GJ, in which case you won’t have a Krysbin’s and your damage is going to be massively nerfed.
I just don’t see a case where this set works for Necro.
The Necro specific jewelry is just too good for most builds to include either Bastions or Endless… Be glad!!! Necro & Wizard are basically the only builds to NOT include any of these!
Simulacrum are NOT PETS any pet mechanic don’t apply to them.
Its much more straight forward. When you siphon, there is a number display amount of current stacks on the siphon blood skill button. That stack is your current powershift multiplier.