Time to voice my opinion or why I refunded D2R

Diablo II (2000) General Discussion
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I have refunded D2R because the way I saw it, it’s the same stale gameplay with reskin and a dozen new bugs, so I can not post in D2R forums. Please excuse me for that. I, however, still wanted to voice my opinion in a civil manner if I may.
EDIT: If anyone knows how my voice can reach devs as a nobody, please let me know. I also take this as an opportunity to thank them for all their efforts.

It seems there are a lot of people whose mentality haven’t grown for decades, still suck in the past and not realizing how stupid their counter arguments are. So I wanted to voice my opinion to emphasize we are not the minority here and list the changes I wish to have and the (in my opinion:) non-logical counter arguments behind them.

1. In-game trade currency with “auction house” like features. Resets for each season/ladder.
Why we want it: Come on, no one wants to use external crap like D2JSP or make a game “need enigma” to sit all day on it. And we don’t want to use runes or whatever as currency. This solves a lot of issues, just put an item and price for it with in-game trade gold and wait for a buyer. That’s it.
Counter argument against it: Heck if I know?! Hoarders of FGs?

2. Personal loot.
Why we want it: Seriously all this shared loot crap does is benefit those who use scripts (pickit), or have better latency. There’s no skilled involved in click click click dying boss.
Counter argument against it: Noo it ruins trading! Wrong: it does not, especially since no one asking for a change in drop rates. If anything, it will make trading better.
Noo go play private games that’s what we been doing for years! Oh no poop people been playing private, to fix this ridiculous gameplay design choice, cause and effect, not that hard to grasp.

3. Better storage (stacked runes/gems, “charm inventory”, bigger stash, bigger/cheaper tomes or even get rid of them).
Why we want it: Because current inventory managements is dumb. Let’s TP to town to make storage to pick up items, oh wait, can’t do that in public! Again, makes people want to play private games only. Ran out of storage? Oh damn, go put them in shared stash or create a new character. Oh snap, characters are limited per account?! How will that work out after 4 ladders?!
Counter argument against it: hurr durr it takes so much skillz to tetris your management oh and charms give lots of power so you have to compromise (yeah right, just TP to town and waste time, so much fun!).

4. Consensual PvP.
Why we want it: it’s 2021 how is griefing tolerated? Also, can be used to regulate PvP (maybe even after consenting both go to a PvP zone, some sort of black portal, and of course watchers can enter and watch.
Counter argument against it: lol noob go private haha ez let me grief you game hand holding you just want it easy hahaha.
Yeah, I am not making that up, this is their counter argument. Still stuck in 90’s mentality.

5. Class/ skill rebalances, including new items et cetra.
Why we want it: Game gets stale too fast, main reason I refunded I suppose. It’s just a reskin, you will end up hammerdin and/or a sorc (and even multi-clienting for that barb bo, especially in Hardcore). Or if you become “rich” enough you will make some other class for little viability. Boring. Melees for instance are mostly garbage and have fun levelling a barbarian for example without just being a leecher who gives out BO.
Counter argument against it: lol n00b, diz iz d2. you just want ez, etc. etc., same crap as above.

6. DClone event change.
Why we want it: Selling SoJs is not smart. Period.
Counter argument against it: I don’t know? But I am sure they have something to say about it.

7. Change up area levels, add new monsters worthy to magic find even for a new “event” items.
Why we want it: Diversify and freshen things. Boring to just do boss runs and pits/ key runs.
Counter argument against it: I don’t know? But I am sure they have something to say about it.

8. Difficulty options, similar to D3 aka /players 8.
Why we want it: Multi-clienting is currently the only way to boost difficulty in private games. This, in conjunction with shared loot, is very problematic.
Counter argument against it: I don’t know? But I am sure they have something to say about it.

Some points we thankfully got but I wanted to show more of those “purists” mindset:

1. Ladder items in non-ladder.
Why we want it: Because it makes no sense to lock them for ladder, especially when ladder resets anyways after few months.
Counter argument against it: Ladder ded haha. What?! Who plays ladder for ladder only items?!?! or so they can re-sell them on non-ladder (again, maybe fg hoarders)?!?!?! Main incentive of ladder is a fresh start with economy and making new characters from grounds up, if this does not motivate you, ladder is not for you.

2. Cow-king does not lock cows (hopefully they don’t lock Nihalathak portal either).
Why we want it: Isn’t it obvious?
Counter argument against it: Again, same nonsense, you just want ez games, go play d3, gate keeping manboy crap, etc.

I hope I have not forgotten anything.

Those people who are so against changes can go play original D2: LoD that they have been playing for 20 years, with the same 20 non-bot users and let other people enjoy things. Gaming have evolved but sadly some human’s thinking have not.

I really hope we get those changes. I have a (rather optimistic theory) that VV are going for “authentic playstate” at launch and then they will take liberty and spice things up. But I am worried because this is a single purchase so there’s no monetization or any incentive for Blizzard to do so.

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Biggest counter argument would be D3 and how the AH almost killed it. When something like an AH is there, as in, an extremely efficient way to trade and to make currency, people stop playing the actual game and stay all day flipping stuff in the AH because it’s much more efficient. Opinions are opinions, but I don’t think buying and selling things should be the gameplay focus on an ARPG

I have nothing against personal loot. I don’t think it would be a bad thing.

It’s not a hurr durr argument if people actually enjoy the management of a small inventory and the decisions that come with it. I completely understand your point though.

To be fair, the only reason why I like the hostile button is because I used to get to PK botters, but unfortunately they know how to tp to town or leave the game instantly if someone presses the button.

There is no counter argument, you’re making this one up. The soj selling was to combate a massive dupe problem the original game had and no longer makes sense in a new one.

I don’t mind balance changes because current patch is not my favorite D2 patch in terms of class balance (I think it was much better in 1.09), but there are WAY more viable builds than just hammerdin or sorc. Every single class has a build that can clear all hell content including ubers.

Absolutely no one in their right mind was against those two changes.

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While I agree that most classes can have viable builds; the diversity is still very low and lots of builds are just outright useless
Also, like I said, some of the classes require very high-end gear to be viable.

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This is not to attack you personally, but if they did what you wanted with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7, I wouldn’t buy the game, even if they returned hotkey assignment to the mouse. That’s saying a lot considering the amount of money I’ve given Blizzard over the years buying at least 8 key sets of D2 alone. Diablo 2 has been my game (no mods, hacks, jsp, gear purchases) for the past 20ish years, and 20 years from now, if D2:R gets cleaned up and course corrected, I’ll still be playing it on the regular. If D2:R doesn’t get hot key fixed, I’ll still be playing D2 2000 (retail) 20 years from now.

What you want, if implemented, should be a future expansion, not a change to the remastered version it self.

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That’s fine I can respect that but any reasons why?
If you don’t mind me asking, why did you have to buy at least 8 key sets of the same game? Is it to multi-client as a workaround for the outdated game design problems the game has?

And actually, an expansion seems interesting, I would buy that then.

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It’s simple really, my love and passion for the game has been on ladder and ssf. I originally purchased the Battlechests to increase the player count in my private games. After the initial first day or two of publicly racing to hell Baal at reset, I tend to revert back to soloing ladder in private games, moving at my pace. In Dec 2017 when Blizzard allowed us to add 4 more characters to closed bnet per IP, I eventually added 4 more copies. I don’t bot, I just boost the difficulty by adding 7 other characters (mules) to the game. Also, what features you call outdated, I call added fun as they stimulate my cognition.

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Do you buff yourself with those characters or do you just “players 8” yourself? Just curious

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I do make an enchantress to buff my barbs, but I only play barbs. Usually a mace mastery ww barb and a secondary throw barb to change things up a bit.

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But don’t you feel it’s a bad design choice, to force players to buy 8 versions of the same game, to increase difficulty and exp? For example, from the little I played Diablo III, this is just a game option.

Also, I assume you use them to bo yourself and et cetra, which is also the effect of bad design choice.

So what I am gathering is you -just like all of us really, so no judgment here- are a creature of habit. I don’t mean to sound offensive, English is not my first language mind you, but I am genuinely curious why are you so against change before even considering its benefits?

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I don’t think that in particular is a bad design choice. Multiboxing is a thing in any multiplayer RPG that has support skills or character compositions of any kind, and as long as there isn’t automation going on (such as a program that mirrors your inputs to all your characters allowing them to move together, which is a big problem in games like wow), it’s better that it’s only something harmless like buffing yourself, than something harmful to the game like the multiboxers who control entire fleets in EvE to gank people.

You can’t avoid multiboxing in games like that, but at least D2 incentivates uses that don’t get in the way of anyone else’s fun

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FYI multi clienting is the use of mods/bypasses, as Diablo II client does not allow it! D2Loader was banned in the past too.

You don’t see it as a design flaw, asking you to buy the game 8 times and using workarounds to bypass it for simple feature that exists in SP (/players 8)?

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It’s not. Blizzard themselves addressed in a blue post that sandboxie to run multiple clients on the same machine isn’t supported, but it is allowed. No modding of the actual game happens.

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It’s funny you say “creature of habit” simply because I’m reading an amazing book right now called Atomic Habits, which is even funnier considering one of my other forum accounts is AtomicPunk. :laughing:

That said, change is very difficult for me, especially if I fail to see a reward in changing. When Apple changed their proprietary app designs about 5 years ago, I lost my mind and shared my disgust with them. A week later, I forgot the old design even existed. That’s actually what I’m experiencing this weekend playing D2:R beta.

I personally get bored playing D3 and PoE relatively quick, but in D2 I can grind 96 to 97 in less than a week without batting an eye. My D2 game play is more muscle memory than anything else. When I build a character I know the exact build I’m going to make and most often the exact gear I’m looking for to complete it, and to what level I want to get the character to–it’s all preset for me. Playing about 10 hours of D2:R I found the larger stash useless and the added tabs an added element that could trigger boredom. I find all the extra space just an excuse to accumulate junk. I can however see a benefit for shared stash, one though that takes away from the fun I’ve had using rune mules. I in fact love muling. Even on single player, though I have GoMule, I use character mules instead of just making GoMule folders to store my gear. I literally have close to 100 sp mules, and I love them all.

As for the added charm inventory, I find it both ugly and useless to my style of game play. I only ever need 2 freed up rows on the left side of my inventory. I take great pride in my charms and how they are arranged in my stash. Once I hit hell Baal, I only need enough space to pick up a pole axe, the rest of the area is for my id tome and charms. I don’t even use keys in endgame, nor doI ever us a tp tome. Tp are in my belt.

If I had more free space than the space for a paxe, I’d just be picking up more useless junk. I identify on the fly, and 99% of the time what I do pick up and keep in endgame the 8 spaces is more than enough space until I go to town. I clear Chaos, Nihlathak, Throne and Baal so fast with my whirlwind barbarians that I’m in town doing a repair every minute or two then moving on to the next monster or new game. I do a lot of repairs because a charged item I use only has 3 charges. My current run from 97 to 99 is Hephasto (10 seconds to get to him, 1-2 seconds to kill him) Diablo (1-2 minutes to get to him, 1-3 seconds to kill him), Nihlathak (30 seconds to get to him, 1-3 seconds to kill him) and Throne and Baal (about 5 minutes in all on average.)

Again, what you call bad game design, I call a masterpiece.

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There is an explicit message box that appears when you try to launch two processes of the game. You need to download third party tool to bypass said message. Sure not a mod?

Blizzard said sandbox is fine because it would not make sense to ban for it as it has other legitimate uses. Why would they ban D2Loader elsewise?

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Do you know what a mod is?

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You’re not modifying the game, nor are you loading multiple instances of the same game keys like what was done with loaders. All multiboxing is doign is adding up to 8 different sets of keys at the same time on the same computer. It’s no different in principle than running 8 different computers (which I did for a year), but this way is cheaper and more efficient.

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I have a single player enchantress that I sometimes use to help speed level a character, but endgame leveling it’s just too much work bringing her in, partying, then enchanting all the while switching back and forth multiple times between windows to do all that for the extra damage she provides when I’m just going to be exiting the game in a couple of minutes. With an enchant I kill Diablo in a split second, without it, I kill him in 1-3 seconds. 1 second if I use Fort instead of Enigma. My YouTube videos demonstrate this clearly. My 1 second Hephasto and Nihl kills in 8 player games is without an enchant. I can literally kill Lister and his minions in 3-5 seconds sing ww without an enchant in an 8 player game. All completely repeatable and happily demonstrated if need be.

On ladder I use her to buff my barbs to first solo them through hell in an 8 player game, then once my character is well geared I generally forget about her. I do however use her to buff my ww barb to quicky take out all 6 uber monsters with Concentrate.

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Well I am not going to play the semantics game, it is literally modifying the original behavior of the game (not allowing multi-clients, explicit message box) and it was also literally banned for in the past (D2Loader) but let us not digress from our discussion - do you not wish this would be improved upon so that buying 8 copies of the same game and using a third party tool is of no necessity?

Also keep in mind, the current Diablo II and your 8 cd keys are not going away. Diablo II Resurrected is a new product, why should it not have enhancements and QoL?

I think the only solution is adding “Resurrected” character option which is enabled by default like ladder mode, so you guys can enjoy your game (buy 8 copies too, to benefit the devs!) with new graphics and we all get what we want. Here’s to hope!

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WIth all due respect, you’re wrong about this. Again, D2Loader is not the same thing. D2Loader runs multiple instances which the same CD Key (illegal). Sandboxies is pretty much a VM, and it’s the exact equivalent of running 8 laptops with different and legitimate keys (allowed). There is no modification of the game whatsoever going on, unless you think running a virtual machine is a modification which makes 0 sense.

But that’s a dead horse to beat, D2R already has shared stash for muling, and unless they allow you to run /players8 on battle net games, there is no QoL alternative to multiboxing, especially with the chant or BO stuff. Funny enough, multiboxing is the legit way of doing what people do with bots, joining all those chant rooms with buffing bots.

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D2Loader did not use the same CD Key. D2Loader reads .mpq file which contains cd keys that the user used to generated. We still got banned, even if no plugins were used or anything other than multi-clienting.

I am sorry if it looked that way to you but I am very well aware of what sandboxie is, as it is proved useful in malware analysis among other things before even used in D2. Like I said, it is a modification in the sense it modifies original behaviour of the game. It bypass the message box that checks if D2 process is already running.

Remedy to /players 8 is allowing the player the option to min and max players, and adjusting difficulty accordingly (i.e.: 1 player max? /players 8, 2 players max? /players 7, et cetra).
Remedy to chant and BO is balancing, those should not be needed in the first place if the game was balanced and all(/most) classes/builds were viable. Instead we see most players running Hammerdin and/or a Sorceress.

I wish those flawed design choices don’t make it to the final build of the game. People want to enjoy the game and not feel like it’s a chore, having to buy 8 copies and running third party tool is tedious. Maybe initial release will be “authentic experience” and then they build into it? Like I said, optimistic thinking!