[Theory] Auction House in RoS

General Discussion
122

I do not remember that Blizz asked fans about solving ANY problems in the game. They talk only “we are hearing you” or “give you suggestion”, but I never saw from them words about helping them with solving any bugs or problems, though players sometimes suggested and such solutions too.

Nope. This thread is about optional feature which can be used by ones who want it and can be not used by ones who do not want it. Very simple.
And you provided such strange arguments though you can just do not use AH if you think that will be something wrong with it. What are your problem?

Search in help.

I said already: because most of fans (that are still already here) think that it is uselessly to discuss threads about AH because devs do not return it back (the same opinion as you demonstrated) and the most of fans who wanted and want AH leaved already this game (some of them playing now in PoE with its trade, that’s why devs returned trade in D4; if PoE had AH, they returned AH in D4).

Give the links on such players. On 1000 such players. :wink:
(Which have full gear with top primals.)
And do not forget to ask them about time they required for this.
As I hear, you are fan of discussions 1-by-1 by players, so it will be not problem for you to know all these things + you will find new friend for yourself. :smile:

You provided argument that it was added in classic due to bad droprate in it, though it was added in RoS (with its “rains of legendaries”). It is very big difference. Especially, in the case of primals (with very low droprate) and possibility of their obtaining.

I have another experience at the time of patches 1.0.5 and 1.0.7 which I provided too. And complaints about AH were appeared not from the start of classic, they appeared at the time I gave.

It is just your dream or hope. Without any guarantees.
While I am talking about real guarantees (AH) instead of your hope.

You can find much more on the old forum which is removed now.
And yes: it does not matter to create multiple threads about AH in the same time. Like threads about trade i D4. Evident thing.

What amount of hours did you play in D3 already?

This “great majority” will write massive complaints about ones who used Black Markets and the outcome will be the same as was in classic - trade of D4 will be removed completely from the game because devs do not know how to close the hole with Black Markets while I solved this problem in this thread.

I do not know about trading in PoE (excepting its functional), but I saw the same suggestion about exchanging duplicated items for the trade of D4.
Also you can search this forum using the word “trade” for that to see that players want AH, not trade, though they do not use this word (AH). It is very funny to see this.

You are wrong. It is not argument, it is just appeal to the opponent’s identity.

I suggested to you (devs and any players) the simplest way to check this moment (your and my opinions about AH) - to introduce AH in season as its buff. I do not see your comment about this “easy check”.

Because there are already enough possibilities to find friends (clans, forums, groups of random players), so it is not needed to do such feature and for trade especially because it lead to additional inconveniences and even holes (Black Markets for real money). Very simple.

They can use chat without trading at all. :smile:
There are many themes to discuss.

You forgot about such simple thing as botters which used dirt (bots) regardless of whether you think about bots by yourself. The same thing and with Black Markets. There is possibility - will be ones that will use it. Very simple.

I see that you know very small about D2. Devs can’t do it in this game.

Nope. It provided understanding what exactly can be controlled at all (drop of what percentage of players). Also it provided understanding of no guarantees in the case of single player. Wikipedia in help - read, teach.

You can’t find them by yourself, so very bad argument from your side.

Nope. Pity timer as prove for that it is not so. And bug-forum too.

123

Yes it is about the fact that all of your characters don’t have primal gear in every slot.

The problem is that it is not just something that someone could say oh well I won’t use it. No, they would feel like they are forced to use it to be on the same level as the rest of the players on the leader boards. More so when all of the players on the leader boards are supporting primals in every slot within a week to a month’s time in a season.

The reason why I say this would happen is because there will likely be more botters botting to get primals either to use or to trade.

I surely hope that GGG doesn’t put an AH into PoE. Imo AHs only fit MMOs, I cannot explain fully why I feel that way but I know that I do feel that way. Maybe it is by association with MMOs, but still it just won’t fit a Diablo game imo.

You are missing the fact that you would have to combined drop rate of quite possibly millions of players. With that kind of drop rate. Then factor in that more players would bot to get primals to trade as well as use. That increases the odds of having all players on the leader boards decked out in full primals within a month of playtime if not sooner.

Right now it isn’t a problem because you only have a two hour trade window when you party with others. So only four player teams for two hours isn’t a drop in the bucket compared to having access to millions of drops

At times like this I would love to have the older forums archived somewhere so we can find older articles because I know that there was a lot of hatred for the RMAH that didn’t take a year to appear. IIRC the hatred even began long before the AHs were actually added. IIRC it took a little while after launch to add them.

Wah, wah, wah, I want primals now daddy dev. I don’t want to have to wait to get them or maybe never even see them.

I don’t want an AH in D4 it just wouldn’t fit imo. Even though D4 will lean a little toward MMO. It would only fit if it were a full blown MMO game and I don’t think that Blizz wants to chance making D4 a full blown MMO. At least not until D5 maybe.

Whether it is in the thousands of hours none season or around a hundred and fifty hours for this season doesn’t matter. I am stating a fact, I know that if I chased after them that in time I would eventually find them. It is called the law of averages. Besides how do you think that others can find them, outside of being extremely lucky. It is because they put in the time to do so.

You might think that Black Markets will want to try to make a ton of money off of the items that are as common as dirt along with ones that are nearly as common as dirt. I don’t think so, unless they want to take chances on having a Dollar General type of Black Market. Then maybe they would, otherwise no they won’t chase after things that are that common.

This is all because of the restricted trading of D4. Where some items (common as dirt) are free to trade without limits. Then others that will probably be close to be as common as dirt which will be bind on trade. Then those items that cannot be traded. Those are the items that will be the hardest to find which would mean that those are the ones that the Black Market players would be fighting to get them into the category of trade only once so they can make a killing off of them. I hope Blizz keeps them in the never trade category. Then the Black Market won’t have any impact on D4.

Oh now you are gonna get like Blizz and say that those that love trade don’t know that they really want an AH, but they do. Not unless they say they want an AH, then would be the only time they would want one. You live in your own little fantasy world if you think this is the case.

Why else would you want to make it thousands of times easier to get all decked out in primals if it isn’t about QQ’ing I don’t have all primal gear on all of my characters.

They are not likely gonna test it by renting out more servers just to have an AH as a seasonal buff. That would be crazy to do so. I am going by what I remembered from the days of City of Heroes. Before their auction house they had really rare crafting mats like Hammadon Goo and Mu’s Vestments that went for around a million influence (gold). When they added the AH they didn’t re-balance the drop rates of those hard to find items. In about a year or two those hard to find items were vendor bait. These crafting mats were ultra rare crafting mats. You did have a way to hunt for them because they were on drop tables based on the type of enemies in the game. There were PvP zones that had PvE enemies that you could farm for them. Add that and a reason to go after them because of their high influence. Add in the fact that the game at the time had around 125,000 players and in a year or more they became vendor bait.

Take millions of players and ones that would bot to get such gear then you have the possibility of what I said could happen as happening.

Only inconvenient to you because it is not your deity the AH. Only a very small percentage would actually take part in such things. And D4 I highly doubt a Black Market will be a dollar general type of market.

I like the fact that the devs are wanting to increase player to player interaction, you don’t because you want your deity the AH in it.

What are you saying that the Black Market isn’t picky about what it uses to make money. If that is so then my oh my have times changed. They will even go to the least popular game in the world that supports trading and have a black market for it.

You were talking about D4 and I do believe that they will come up with a decent trading system that will be a balance between no trading D3 and free trading D2/PoE.

Look you are just wanting the devs to hand you primals instead of actively looking for them by playing the game. If you played the game seriously enough you will find primals and in time you will find the ones that you want for your character and build.

Then how can you have a primal for primal trade if no one ever finds pirmals. Are you saying that they only drop for those on a team. News flash I have found probably around 10-15 in this season already. So they do drop, just not ones for my build. But that is okay because I can wait for them to drop for my build. It is not a make or break deal for me.

I will not be like a little child holding their breath to get daddy dev to give them to me.

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As you’ve tried to point out for other arguments…

There is no evidence that there is anything like a significant number of “fans” that want an AH back.

125

You missed this moment (look quote in the original place):

it is like hardcore vs softcore - you can’t say that all are forced to play on hardcore because other ones that play on softcore “to be on the same level as the rest of the players on the leader boards”. It is optionality. That’s all.

You are wrong. Botters will do not need bots anymore - they can just buy all they want. Against botters that want to make real money, there is such fix (again read quote in the original place):

i.e. you do not read carefully the first post. That’s all.

D4 has already MMO features. Your nightmare came true. :wink:

I suggested you the easiest way to check your fears - AH as season buff. You are ignoring this moment fully. Do you fear that this check will show that you are fully wrong? Or what other problem do you have with this?

Water.

Exactly, it does matter. I checked your profile by myself.

Wikipedia:

The law of averages is the commonly held belief that a particular outcome or event will over certain periods of time occur at a frequency that is similar to its probability. Depending on context or application it can be considered a valid common-sense observation or a misunderstanding of probability. This notion can lead to the gambler’s fallacy when one becomes convinced that a particular outcome must come soon simply because it has not occurred recently (e.g. believing that because three consecutive coin flips yielded heads , the next coin flip must be virtually guaranteed to be tails ).
As invoked in everyday life, the “law” usually reflects wishful thinking or a poor understanding of statistics rather than any mathematical principle. While there is a real theorem that a random variable will reflect its underlying probability over a very large sample, the law of averages typically assumes that unnatural short-term “balance” must occur. Typical applications also generally assume no bias in the underlying probability distribution, which is frequently at odds with the empirical evidence.

As I said you already, your words “reflects wishful thinking or a poor understanding of statistics rather than any mathematical principle” because in real statistics “there is a real theorem that a random variable will reflect its underlying probability over a very large sample”. The main words here - “very large sample” and this sample can be much larger than you can even imagine. Also, I said already, D3 has not “normal” random, it has bugged pseudo random, so even usual lows of statictics for large samples do not work as intended.
Good try, but wrong - I said you already that I deal with statistics many years already.

I said you already - your “majority” have problems with Black Markets, not I. Also as you have problems with bots. I - do not have any problems with them because I a playing in solo mode and I don’t care how play other players (with or without bots and so on). But I suggested theory of ideal holes without any holes that is the problem of your “majority” and you.

I gave you already links when players suggest to remove this limitation for trade in D4. Also as they suggested full copy of AH (without 1-by-1 interactions you like).

They can just make mistake and some items will become rare (even not mythic) like they shown many times and this will be “best hour” of ones that used Black Markets and the “last hour” of the trade in D4.

Just search and read. I already wrote above what exactly players want. Trade without 1-by-1 interactions is AH regardless how players name such version of trade. It was not problem for me to find threads with such suggestions (I read only first posts of them).

Why not? What is the problem? They used standalone server(s) for PTR. They can use it (them) and for AH too. No problems at all. :smile:

I am not interesting in the examples of other games while we already have example of classic and the droprate of primals is now like droprate of legs in classic. That’s all.

Millions bots = millions sold copies of D3+RoS+AH-addon + buying new and new copies of them after banning of such bots = gigantic amount of real money for Blizzard. Do you really understand what are you talking about? I.e. you said Blizzard: “hey, guys, you do not need trillions of dollars”. Good opinion. :smile:

Only convenient to you because you can’t find friends for you using at least 3 existing ways for this. :smile:
The 4th way will also do not help you to find a friend.

I just want to note that Black Markets were in classic, if you forgot.

I already proved the fact that your such arguments are wrong using quote from Wikipedia. :wink:

I am interesting how do you will obtain full gear of primals for all players during one week (as you said) with such situation in the case of AH? Unlike you I never said such things. I said always that it is impossible to provide full gear of primals during the time of season for all players. Moreover, it is also impossible to provide even top ancient items for all players. It is only your dreams about rain of top primals on AH because you think that I want this. :smile:

If it is ok for you, so no problems at all - play as early and do not buy AH-addon. :wink:

Let’s check this moment by introducing AH as seasonal buff. :wink:

126

Why is thing still ongoing? The AH is not coming back, not ever, not in any form. Discussing about any “what if” scenarios is completely moot. Blizzard has made it clear, it’s not coming back. Not now, not in the future.

127

Thanks, you killed brain cells with that one. Not only is it a stupid idea because it doesn’t provide any evidence, but the AH would in no way be a “buff” of any kind.

128

I.e., as usually, no arguments at all? ok.

129

Yes I know you are fixated on your AH deity. You are so fixated on it you cannot see or even want to see and understand what others are saying about your deity. All because that deity will give you what you have been crying for guaranteed primals for all of your characters in a much shorter time than normal. How dare Blizz put a carrot on a stick that they want us to chase after. According to you they should start giving our primals as a door prize. So the gift for completing chapter for would be a full set of primal gear. Wah, wah, wah, I want those primals now daddy dev.

You don’t understand, like I said, or want to understand why players would feel forced to use the AH just to get the primals like everyone else on the leader boards. More so when almost everyone or everyone on the leader boards have all primal gear within the first week to month of a season due to the AH.

Come on you really think that players wouldn’t bot to put primals up on the AH for trade, even though they might be getting junk primals in return. What have you been drinking or what has your AH deity been whispering in your ears.

Sorry but D4 is not a true MMO because there are many other things that just won’t make it an MMO.

Look I have already told you that the chances of Blizz putting in such a feature as a test is highly unlikely due to having to rent more servers to test it out. I don’t think that they would be willing to rent out more servers just to test something out regardless of whether it is only for about three months or maybe six months if it is for two seasons.

Maybe your AH deity has been whispering in your ears telling you that no one botted in D3 to get good gear to sell on the AHs when they were a part of D3.

Look I know what they are there for and they are working as intended. If they were there because they are absolutely needed to be able to clear let’s say GR140+ then we would have guaranteed ways of getting them. Then we would probably see a new type of ancient that would be called Mythic that would take the place of primals if such a thing happened. But it is not happening because they are not needed for such a thing.

According to the above even the AH couldn’t possibly guarantee you would get any primals at all ever. That is because you are saying that their current drop rate, even combining a million plus players playing won’t hardly add any primals to the AH just what type of statistics do you know about.

Have you seen what happens in games that didn’t have an AH then added one where they didn’t re-balance the drop rates to reflect the AH being added. I know I did with the shutdown game mentioned earlier and seen it cause high ticketed items that were really hard to come by. Meaning you had to farm specific zones to have a good chance at finding them.

When players learned of those areas and know that they could get a ton of influence from them. They went from high ticketed items to vendor trash within about a year or two after the AH was added. And I did tell you truthfully that MMO had around 125, 000 players playing. Now think of in the millions of players playing with a drop rate that primals have. Then add botters that would surely bot to get those items for sale on the AH.

I could see just what I said happening easily within a month if not much sooner.

But with free and unrestricted trading it adds in all of the problems that your solutions are suppose to fix. Now which way do you want it totally free trade or restricted.

As long as the best items in the game are BoA (bind on account) I highly doubt that the Black Market will care enough to try to make money off of the BoT (bind on trade) items or the ones that can be traded without restriction.

You probably already have some from the black market that are some of the ones wanting D4 to have free trading.

You are so blinded by your AH deity that you just are not in touch with reality of what the players want. I didn’t hear anyone mention an AH at Blizzcon at all. If players were truly wanting that type of trading they would’ve said something about it but didn’t.

Really you would use them for both the AH trades and testing other new features as well. What you didn’t know that when the AHs existed they had their own servers. What has your AH deity been telling you.

I go by other games due to it giving me a good barometer of what would happen in this game if such a feature was put back in. Again you have been speaking with your AH deity.

So your AH deity told you to promote botting, very interesting.

I play solo for my own reasons and don’t chase after primals. If I happen to get any that I could use then I would use them. Otherwise I would just turn them to FS (forgotten souls).

Which proves my point, Black Markets only target games that are popular. That is because they know that they can make the most money off of them.

I have already said that if the above is true then no one could possibly find any primals at all. So your AH deity couldn’t guarantee you primals. If it can then what I said will likely be the case.

I am talking about 1,000 players per class and per region. So that would be around 21,000 players if each player plays only one class in a season.

I know you want your AH deity added so daddy devs guarantees that you will have all primal gear long before the season ends. That won’t be happening because Blizz just will not be putting it back in.

130

Yeah, you really didn’t have an argument. That’s why you tried to distract from it with that ludicrous idea.

131

You can neither prove this moment (bolded) nor check it.
Moreover, you even can’t explain why this is bad if it will be so.

Exactly, according to you, not according to me, because I repeat again and again that it is impossible to obtain full gear of primals for all players at least during season, hence your example is wrong at all.

I am older than your devs, boy. So, it is I am their “daddy”. :smile:

Like I said, you even can’t explain the difference between the optionality of AH and the choice between playing on softcore and hardcore while all your arguments about the lack of optionality in the case of AH can be used and for the playing on hardcore where - due to your logic - no one should play, but there are players (big enough amount of players) that play on this mode.

Your main mistake is the evident fact that you think that all other people think in the same manner as you. The example of AH in classic is the best way to show you that you are wrong.
I know that different people have different opinions and motivations. Moreover, I listen their opinions that different from your ones. And I wrote of them to you and other my opponents. Very simple.

I said about features of MMO.
I did not say that D4 is “true” MMO.

Do not think. Just ask them about this to know their true opinion.

Nope. Because fans said: “NO! NEVER!”

Yeah. I am glad to see that you understood at last the main feature of random which is used in this game.
AH gives much more guarantees to obtain needed top primals for one just because you can either to exchange other primals for one you need (of course, it is still possible that you do not obtain no one needed to exchange primal from big amount of possible variants, but such outcome has much more less probability that the outcome to do not obtain just one top primal that you need) or to dial money on it by selling other legs and other features that will have enough big cost. For example, in classic there are possibilities to obtain full gear of legs (with the quality < top items, of course) just by selling only one top leg and the possibility to buy gear by crafting gems and selling them.

We do not have specific zones to farm specific items (I am about regular gear, of course), so we have 0 problems with this. Moreover, AH was already in D3.

Yes, of course. That’s why I suggested AH with closed holes instead of suggestion to make trade with the same limitations as trade of D4 has. As you can see, players asked about something like AH instead of something like trade with additional restrictions. The limitations I added for AH in this thread do not affect most players. They affect only ones who want to make real money with the minumum efforts (by reselling rare legs that they bought for practically zero price). Moreover, I saw opinion of such players - they do not have any complaints to AH. Moreover, they played both in AH and in game. Hence we made evident outcome at the end - only ones have complaints to AH in classic: who can’t play in the game, can’t play in AH and can’t buy anything on AH. And due to complaints of such players devs removed AH from the game. As you can understand, now (with such knowledge) it is evident while RoS failed to meet expectations of devs / Blizz and while they returned trade in D4 - because they lost big enough amount of players and they lost additional amount of them after introducing of primals (which is recreated full copy of the situation in classic).

This is the very hard thing to understand it, but it is only possible explanation of already known facts.

Nope. I never used games to spend / earn money - the first thing is selfdelusion, the second thing is unneeded for me because I have the great job I very like (I am working in the my native sub-division of the one big world company with the main office in the Hoboken, New Jersey, United States; that’s why I am know very well statistics; also as high school mathematics, physics and programming (I am engineer by diploma); because we deal with education; moreover, I am using programming for the powerful optimization of my work + to be in good standing for chiefs and my colleagues from other sub-divisions and the main one). :wink:

They just can’t. Because in such way in their thread AH-haters will appear, but if they do not use word “AH”, so they do not “troll” AH-haters and they (the last one) - perhaps - will ignore such thread. Very simple. :wink:

For this moment there is such suggestion:

for that to have money for additional servers and so on. :wink:

Also as very low activity of Blizz for banning them. :wink:

And what? 13*21k top primals for 21k players. Impossible.

Look above. On my arguments. Though I still do not see your ones. :smile:

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Because I already won. You presented an argument that there’s a bunch of players who want an AH back. I pointed out that you have no evidence of that, and you have no way to get such evidence. Therefore your argument has failed.

133

One thing I don’t understand
If it is just hope or dreaming without guarantees of the perfect item dropping, How does it get in the AH in the first place?

There is no guarantees your way
5000 people want the perfect Yangs recurve how are you going to get that number in the AH in the first place when there is next to no chance of dropping in the first place but can guarantee it is available to everyone in the AH

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I can’t believe there are 100+ posts on this. Everyone is arguing against AH and only OP is for it. Why are you fueling this troll? No AH. Case closed. Demolish this thread.

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Look I am talking about those that team a lot. I have looked at those on the leader boards that have usable primals and since most on the leader boards would team a lot to make it where they are. They put in a ton of time as well. So if you have found 4-5 useful primals even teamed. How many ones did you find that weren’t useful to you and maybe so bad that they would be junk primals to anyone that would find them.

If you find enough that would constitute a full set of primals if an AH exists then I can tell you it would be possible. Even faster when considering you could have ten times or more than ten times the players in City of Heroes had. All you would have to do is find half way decent primals to trade and even I have found those during my much shorter play time during this season. Just find 13 of them that would be good enough to trade with others on your idea of an AH and you get the picture. More so if you team a lot in the process.

If I am proven right under such conditions it would be bad because other players would feel forced to not only use the AH. But also team and maybe even bot as well to ensure that they will have primals like everyone else on the leader boards. I am talking about the competitive players that want to make it on the leader boards.

You have to look at the issue from many different angles through the view of more than just yourself and your AH deity.

You just don’t get it do you, you are probably like me and solo all of the time, because if you had teamed a lot then you would be a lot higher in paragons than me. You would have much better gear as well due to the help of the team.

I know you are thinking that you would have to see at least one player or more during a season with a full set of primals in order for what I am saying to be true. No, that doesn’t need to be the case and you know it.

I am sure that you know that I am talking attitude here. You are of the group of instant gratification, you want it now. Instead of waiting to get it.

Look there is a big difference between AH and hardcore and you know it.

Just because it existed doesn’t mean that it will be coming back. The most that we will get if we ever get it is the gifting system from Console as the devs said at Blizzcon many years ago long before the game went to the classic team.

They would probably have to rent at the very least 12 addition servers (4 per region) just to have an AH. If it is more than that then the costs goes up. So renting out that for three months just to test your idea isn’t likely to happen, due to wanting to save money on a game that is now in the hands of classic. Some things can be figured out with logic and reasoning.

If players are able to easily get geared up in all primals then this game goes back to what the problem was before primals existed. There wouldn’t be anything there for the most dedicated players to chase after in a loot hunt game. All because they have it all already. So they are done playing D3, not just for a season but possibly done for life.

It doesn’t necessarily have to be top for top (top means having all of the right affixes without re-rolling one). One affix off would be all that would be needed for trading.

Besides if what you are stating is true that it wouldn’t make a dent at all in the scheme of things then there is no reason to add it. Adding a useless feature is a waste of time and money. It really does boil down to that in the end.

Just because it was done in vanilla doesn’t mean that it must return.

What you didn’t mention trading item for item only once? I am sure that if I looked real hard in your OP it would say that unless you edited it recently.

Boy oh boy your AH deity has blinded your eyes. You didn’t see the hatred for the RMAH let alone the problems with the gold where players didn’t like playing the AH. Players these days don’t want to play the trading game again just to get geared up, or in your case to get the best gear.

I don’t think that they lost players because of primals, sure not being able to trade outside of a trade window hurt the game. But still it isn’t bad enough that they will have to add your AH deity back to D3 and add it to D4.

Oh and you missed the point Mr. Watson. I was saying that there are those that have added their voices to free and unrestricted trading that want that in D4 and D3 so they can make money by means of RMT. If you actually think that just because you wouldn’t do it that no one else that would want those things wouldn’t join their voices with those that want it for legit purposes you are obviously are blinded by your AH deity.

AH trading isn’t the only way to have player to player trading. So you are saying that your AH deity has you convinced that everyone that wants trading is wanting your AH deity.

That is not gonna help for the testing nor the future amount of money spent keeping them going. So no way are they gonna do that.

Do you forget that you have the crafter that can change one affix (less than top which is all affixes for the build). Some pieces will be a lot easier than others. Heck I crafted a primal hellfire that would’ve been on my character but it had the wrong passive. Fine for another barb, all he would’ve had to do is change one affix on it, that is if the passive would’ve been fine for that barb. Still don’t remember the passive though.

I am going to look up some things on Blizz’s current thoughts on the AH. If they turn up what I think they will I will share them here. If you don’t listen to that then I don’t know what else to say.

2 Likes
136

@wrace here are a few links that I found that should prove that there is no way that the AHs are returning to D3 nor are they gonna be part of D4.

Considering D3’s AH, Mike Morhaime had this to say in a recent article that I will give a link for to show it isn’t made up.

“If you could do what you wanted and snap your fingers to make it happen, would you remove the auction house?” he asked the team. “They said yes, that’s what we’d do.” There was no obvious way of justifying this to management on paper, Morhaime said, but it proved the right call.

This is telling me that not long after the AHs release they seen the problems with it and would’ve removed it if they had been allowed to do so. This means that they are not gonna add something back that they wanted to scrap earlier than what they did. Even if your ideas would work.

They would’ve been making changes to the AHs if they wanted to come up with solutions that would’ve made it better. But they didn’t because they wanted to scrap it not long after releasing it.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-06-26-ex-blizzard-boss-mike-morhaime-on-why-the-studio-bins-50-percent-of-the-projects-it-starts

Next article is talking about avoiding mistakes made in D3 in D4. This is Adham speaking, and he is one of the founders of Blizz. He said the following and I quote below.

When we asked which mistakes the team worked to avoid, Adham was quick to bring up the real-money auction house. The team agreed that it wasn’t a feature they’d go back to. But Adham said that Blizzard still wanted to enable trading between players in Diablo 4 .

https://www.polygon.com/2019/11/1/20944504/diablo-4-auction-house-error-37-server-stability-post-release-content

If they look at it as a mistake and no doubt you could add the Gold AH as well to the mix, then the chances of them putting both in this game or D4 is slim and none. You don’t deliberately add something that you look at as a mistake.

If they even thought about just the gold AH they would’ve said so at Blizzcon but didn’t, instead they mentioned the RMAH which was a mistake to them and the team as the other article pointed out they wanted to scrap it earlier than they did.

You AH deity is not making a return to the Diablo franchise. If you need to worship at the feet of your deity of AH then go play MMOs that have them.

Btw one more thing check the next mistake which is error 37. The article basically says that they want to avoid that is almost as important as not recreating the AH (hints at both AHs).

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Nope. Because it does not matter at all - the exact amounts of ones who want AH and ones who do not want AH - since AH-addon in this thread is optional hence ones who want AH can use it and ones who do not want can do not use it. I.e. you failed even before creating your first post against AH in this thread (also as other AH-haters). :smile:

Due to this:

I never stated that AH is the way to obtain top primals for all players during one week in the season. It is the argument of AH-haters against AH. The true aim of AH is exactly the one I wrote in the first post of this thread and quoted again above.

Because your perfect Yangs recurve is available on AH with 100% guarantee (with its big price) while you can’t even imagine when and whether you obtained it in the game (i.e. you have no guarantees). In the case of AH you see your perfect Yangs recurve, you see the cost of it, and you can to simulate your actions in the game or still have hope to obtain something useful to exchange this on the item you need (this have bigger probability to happen in comparison with the probability to obtain only one item you need). Very simple things.

Report to you for violating of forum rules. Read them carefully.

I do not solve the problem with tons of garbage, I just suggest the way to have more useful items than we have now. This problem must be solved by devs, but - sooner - it will be solved in D3 never.

You made 3 mistakes:

  1. you think that any 13 primals are the same as 13 top primals;
  2. you think that all players are top players which can farm big amount of time
  3. you think that anyone need only one top primal while it is possible to spoiled it due to rolling wrong state on it by Miriam.

Try to think about all these moments and to count them in your theory.

As I said you already, we can easily check this moment, introducing AH as season buff only for one season - the best way to check all your fears without affecting further seasons and gameplay in them. As you know, in non-season some players already had perfect versions of gear and incredible paragon, so no problems for them at all.

You made the biggest mistake if you think that I suggested this theory of ideal AH only because I want it + I want to trade by primals to make money or to buy them to P2W, especially because I explained already for you that can’t be now P2W at all. Because in such way you can’t see the real (true) reason, though I repeated it again and again for you. Egoism is very good feature, of course, but it is the very bad feature in the case of thinking about desires of all pool of players. Because it can lead finally at the outcome we see now in RoS and we saw on the presentation of D4 (compare reaction of fans with ones on the presentation of D3, remember the situation on forum and look on the current situation).

Really? Vocalize this “big difference” between them. If you can, of course. :smile:

I.e. you (by yourself) lead us to the only outcome - AH-addon must be added without any tests and - possibly - by pre-order to have money on the needed servers. :wink:

Really? You can’t provided good enough arguments, only these:

  1. AH is never returned (it is not argument at all);
  2. AH is not needed because there is the rain of legs (you are wrong because there are primals);
  3. AH does not provide 1-by-1 interactions of players, so it does not lead to frienship and hence it is bad idea (very strange argument and logic);
  4. AH will lead to rain of top primal in the short period of time (you can’t prove this - I provided strong counterargument against you ones);
  5. trade in D4 have the biggest difference with AH (but you can’t explain this difference).

I missed something? You do not have strong arguments against AH.

There is already. Hardcore with withdrawing of legs.

Really? And you can find many players that play in non season ignoring seasons. Do you?

Yeah. And the big probability of spoiling this item by donater, so this player will need one more such item.

Feature is optional. No problems at all. Do not like - do not use.

You can ask blue ones about original version of my first post (they have possibility to see all versions of it). They will confirm that all items of this theory were placed before presentation of D4 and talking by Blizz about this moment:

I added only this part to the end of my first post:

Any problems for asking blue ones about that fact? :wink:
Or do you think that only your devs can suggest it? Nice.

Really? Initially you said that no one will use Black Markets because it is very bad. :smile:
I am glad to here that you changed your opinion on one that I provided. :wink:

Exactly my argument. Nice to see it again. From my opponent.

I explained already: trade without 1-by-1 interaction is AH.
If you know another examples - provide them. No problems.

They keep somehow all these servers of D3 without obtaining additional money. How can it be? :wink:
I.e. your argument was initially wrong - my opponents on my native sub-forum understood this fastly.
And yes: you made one more biggest mistake if you think that the idea of ideal AH in this thread was appeared only here and after 5 minutes of thinking on it. It was appeared initially on my native sub-forum in one thread and then we discussed it in the new thread (something like this) during 1k+ posts. Moreover, we still discussing it now, in different threads (i.e. we have overall 3k+ posts or even more). Moreover, as I said already, the first versions of this thread were appeared many years ago (by the reason I wrote above, in early posts here, - when I tried to resolve this problem of AH between its fans and haters), then I took 2 years off (and other players tried to develope this version of ideal AH) and when I returned, I finished its creation. Hence, you see now the final outcome of disputes during many years with many other players among gigantic amount of posts, though all (most of) “arguments” of AH-haters I already know and have strong counterarguments against them.
Try to count this fact.

I am already talking about such legs. I never forgot about Miriam.

Thank you very much for this. It is something instead of nothing.
But I need to say you one thing - since I am working many years already in the big company, hence I already know that ones whos opinion you trust without any doubts’, can also made mistakes. Moreover, they (Blizz) already demonstrated this and some of devs were fired. So their opinion without explanation and defending their position is nothing for me.

I said you already: without explanation and argumentation, their position is nothing for me. Devs are also humans and hence they made / make mistakes. They are not Gods that can’t make mistakes at all. So you faith of fanatics into infallibility of devs (while they made many mistakes in D3) is very funny for me. It is the position of slaves, while I am not slave of anyone.

I commented this moment already. You can’t explain the sence of trading in D4 and the “big difference” between trade and AH.

I said already: do not think for them. Just ask them.

Really? It is solving of the most controversial moment of D3 (and effort to undestand real reasons of different players) for that to do not repeat it in D4 and - possibly - to return players back in D3 (which will buy then D4).
Position of your devs is very shaky. Instead of making the survey of all players to know opinion of all of them, they provide their actions hearing the smallest part of them on forums (and fully ignoring another part). Very unprofessional behavior of developers and publishers.

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Of course it matters, otherwise you wouldn’t have bothered spending time making up a potentially large amount of people.

But hey, if you want to say your argument doesn’t matter, that’s fine too. Not going to stop you.

Yawn. The original AH was optional on its face, too, you know. So that’s nothing new and you still fail.

139

Some pretty long posts. :slight_smile: Ah is not needed period I figure. Drop rates on legs is high enough,gold is pretty much a worthless commodity. If you in that much a hurry to get full primal gear and completely end the game,you can always uninstall it lol. I could care less about gearing up fast.
In fact I wish it was harder to gear(to a point). Primals are all luck,i have a full set Mote on hc,pure luck. Of courses it a set I don’t want lol. If running high gr was all it took we all would have full sets this season,don’t ya think? Its people that grind/bot call it what ya want that’s how they get primals. Ah is not required or wanted ty kindly :slight_smile:

140

Look your argument failed because you didn’t provide proof. You said there is a bunch of players that want an AH, and some of them don’t even know that they want an AH but they do.

Trying to pad your argument as saying that everyone that wants trading to return wants an AH. When in reality they don’t. There is no way of knowing how many want an AH or not.

Come on now be honest, you are mad that you cannot get your characters all decked out in primals. You know that it rains legendaries to the point that it is real easy to find good gear. That is not the gear that will get traded. Only top notch gear that is near perfect or primal gear.

This is what it is all about crying just because you don’t get that primal Yang’s or any other piece of primal gear for your characters. You want a guaranteed way that is far faster than what you normally get without guarantees.

You are thinking top primals as ones that don’t need their affixes changed. I am talking about primals were you only need one affix changed. I am sure that if I had a Yang’s Recurve that was only one affix off and you had a perfect Waste boots with no affixes off you would gladly get trade to get that Yang’s. This is what I am talking about. I am sure that with the aid of other players in multiplayer they will be able to do what I am talking about.

The ones that are on the leader boards are the ones that are the most likely to be able to accomplish it. All because the do put in that time.

You seem to think that I list everyone having the same playtime. Not at all, but since those that are on the leader boards are seen with all primals in a short time then players will think that they will have to have primals to be able to compete.

Look due to the extra cost of renting servers Blizz is not gonna test your idea. More so since they called AHs a mistake.

Instant gratification crowd are those that don’t want to wait they want it now. Now is when they must have it. They are not willing to wait for it or even move on to other things when they don’t get that gratification.

Perma death is vastly different than trading. I don’t see how you couldn’t possibly see the difference. Why did you even ask, has your AH deity made you stupid.

They are not gonna test it. Nor are they gonna add it. They already considered the AH a mistake in D3 and they are not gonna make the same mistake twice.

Blizz’s own words from those linked articles.

I know that Veruca Salt wants her primals now daddy dev now daddy dev. Wah, wah, wah, I don’t like waiting give it to me now.

When a shutdown MMO adds an AH and doesn’t re-balance the drop rates according. Then in about a year or two the same high ticketed hard to find crafting mats are vendor trash. Then add in that happened with only around 125,000 players (during a time when 100,000 players an MMO was a success). Then add in the fact that there are more than 125,000 players of D3 you have the possibility of what I said happening to happen.

If you don’t know the differences in trade between free and unlimited trading to a limited trading system like D4’s then I cannot help you on that one.

Oh so your solution is to send everyone to the hardcore servers. Where hardcore is the only way to play D3. Not a good idea because the players that don’t want to play that mode would leave.

If a player has done everything that they possibly care to do with a game then they are done playing that game. Until something else is added to give them the urge to play again.

There is only two sides of this coin, either the AH is something that will guarantee that you get the pirmals that you want or it doesn’t.

If it does then you will likely get other players complaining that they feel that they have to play the AH trading game again. Some would just leave at that point.

Now if it doesn’t really change a thing at all. Then without any guarantees of getting legendaries then that means it is a waste of time to add because it doesn’t give any benefits to the users that they cannot get elsewhere.

Look I already told you that you said items would be traded only once like some of the items in D4.

Again I told you that they said it was a mistake to add to D3. Something that they want to avoid adding to D4. They will not make the same mistake twice by considering your idea. If they wanted that kind of help they would’ve said so and wouldn’t have called D3’s AH a mistake.

No, you were using an All or Nothing fallacy where you said everyone uses the Black Market if trading was free and unrestricted. News flash everyone doesn’t use it. Only a small portion of the players would use it.

I guess you haven’t played a lot of games or different types of genres. I have played a fair share of different types of genres as far as games goes.

Path of Exile has guides as a social feature and they have guild stashes that you can use to trade among other players in your guide. Just drop off the item in question then pick up the item you want and you have traded items without meeting a player face to face or getting it off of an AH.

Some MMOs have guild banks for trading as well.

Then there are no doubt some that are similar to AH without actually being an AH. Trading posts that would trade item for item would be just that.

It is an additional costs that they won’t agree to paying without additional money. What do you really think that the AHs servers back then were for free.

Blizz stated that the AHs were a mistake that they will avoid in D4. They will not make the same mistake in D3 by putting them back in again.

Blizz looks at the AHs in D3 as a mistake to avoid in D4 so they won’t put them in D4 nor will they add them back in D3. Even if your idea would work.

You actually are blinded by your AH deity thinking that just because D4 has trading that D3 is gonna get its AHs back. They had already said in that quote they are not gonna put them back in again.

Logic dictates that when someone mentions one, primarily one AH that the other is hinted at by means of association.

If they really wanted to add the gold only AH again they would’ve said so by now.

You just don’t want to accept their position. Much like others in offline mode threads don’t want to accept the fact that Blizz has said no offline mode. It has said no to AHs in those articles loud and clear to me. You AH deity has blinded your mind to where you cannot accept such things.

141

It does not matter in the case of this theory of ideal and optional AH when AH-haters provided arguments like you did about amounts of AH-likers vs amounts of AH-haters. Of course, I think (by the set of reasons / facts I wrote above already) that there is very big amount of AH-likers, and that’s why I am spending my time on conversations in this thread. But - if you provided as counterargument the opinion that we do not know the exact number of AH-likers (with the full ignorance of my explanations about this moment) - I can say that it does not matter just due to optionality of AH, so it can’t affect AH-haters at all. Very simple.

Nope. Because it was impossible to prove the fact of unusing it while in the case of AH-addon this fact is evident: no AH-addon - no usage of it. Moreover, I added this:

And yes: classic and RoS are very different games in the case of gear and other.

You forgot about primals.

Gold is nothing in the case of this AH - it is just intermediate pool and amount of it does not matter at all because the main feature of AH is this:

it is not market where anyone can buy anything just for gold that was farmed from the ground.

You forgot about seasons. It is impossible to collect full gear of top primals for most of people during one season. And it will be impossible to do this even with AH.

For this purpose now there is hardcore.

AH can fix this moment. Now you just have souls.

Exactly, there is. Run AH and you will see this. :smile:

You tried to think for me as you tried early to think for devs. Very bad practice. I have no reasons to lie or to hide anything. And again - you tried to refer to the opponent’s identity instead of to provide arguments and facts. Also very bad practice.

Ignored. Reasons - above.

Do not confound me and yourself.

And what? You already forgot that top primals give the smallest profit in the case of rankings (vs random in rifts and vs paragon) in comparison with the ancients that can be obtained by top players (now) without big efforts. And even with your position that AH will be fulled by top primals (of course, it is impossible during season), exactly nothing will be changed (even in the case of rankings). So you provided arguments without seeing all picture at once. :man_facepalming:

You are wrong. Ones that on the top of leader boards must to fish rifts and to play in the certain manner using OP-builds + to provide big amount of additional actions to be on the top of LB. Your top primals are nothing for them. Ask them by yourself if did not do this yet to hear what do they talk you. :man_facepalming:

Some of such people thinking so and now. And what?

It does not matter without strong enough argumentation and explanation from devs. Because ones who made such solution were fired. And now they returned trade in D4. And neither you nor anyone other AH-hater can’t explain “big advantage” of trade under AH.

Really? Trade in D4. :smile:

As I said already - you can’t explain even this.
Only new portion of text with appealing to the opponent’s personality.
I am not about the difference between softcore and hardcore and trading at all. I am about the choice of playing on softcore or hardcore and the choice of using or not AH. You provided only one argument for the last case - that no one will choose playing without AH because it gives simplicity to the game. And I reminded to you about hardcore where there are players while softcore gives simplicity to the game and where - due to your logic - no one must play. The both situations are exactly the same in this moment, but your logic is different. This shows that you are wrong. Very simple.

Really? They could make big mistake when they removed AH, that’s why they returned trade in D4 while there are neither AH nor trade in D3. Both AH and trade are about exchanging items. We have no exchange at all in D3.

Do you want to obtain report for violating of forum rules?
I can easily provide it for you.

I said already: your rebalancing was done already (primals).

You confirmed my words:

trade in D4 have the biggest difference with AH (but you can’t explain this difference)

Nice gift. Now replace in this quote “hardcore” by “no AH”. Very simple. :smile:

For example, new set or new seasonal buff. :smile:

I repeat again: AH has another main purpose.

It is impossible now, due to these moments:

they can still “complain that they feel that they have to play the AH trading game again” but now they will lie with 100% guarantee. Because now it is impossible to farm AH due to limitations I already did. Players MUST play in the game. If they do not want to play in the game, they can’t complain that this is due to AH. Very simple.

Of course, I removed such possibility primarily, because it is only known official explanation / reason of devs to remove AH. :wink:

Reword this text because I did not understand what you said.

And what? It is impossible to resell it, by it is still possible to sell them (once) for real money (Black Markets). As I know, trade of PoE does not have such limitation.

The only way to do not repeat mistake (if they think that they made mistake) - to do not add neither AH nor trade in D4. But they added the last one. Hi, Black Markets.
So they made mistake again. Nice.

I did not say this and even did not have this in mind.
It is only your interpretation and your mistake, no more.
I said: trade has hole for Black Markets and just this fact (regardless of the number of users of BM) will lead to removing of trade in D4 at all due to massive complaints from your “honest users”. That’s what I said.

One player of PoE told today about swindlers in such trade system as PoE has and full ignorance of this fact by devs of PoE. AH provides 100% guarantee against them because do not have 1-by-1 interactions and uses intermediate pool (gold) for exchanging items.

You provided only one example.
Moreover, your guild banks lead to paying real money just for joining to guild.

Really? Trading posts of millions users? Dumpster? Nice.

You do not explain where Blizz find money on keeping servers of D3 and D2. :wink:

They already added trade in D4.
They repeated twicely their mistake.
Because neither you nor anyone AH-hater can explain difference between them.

Water. While I need answer on my question.

Exactly, they just hold silence, though they can easily confirm your words. :smile:
Something wrong with your logic. :wink:

Position without explanation and argumentation is nothing.

P.S.: about positions and offline mode.
Position of devs of D4: no offline mode in D4 (without explanation).
My own position: I will do not buy D4 without offline mode by the reasons I provided (some of them were described in the appropriate thread which I marked by my like).
Devs do not provide offline mode in D4, I do not buy this game. Very simple.

I do not need to spend my time for disputes with ones who will buy D4 without offline mode, because their position does not matter for me since only I can make choice to buy or not to buy D4 and I already made it.

Also all other players will make their choice and the position of devs: “we will do something or we will do not do something just because we want to do so and we do not need to explain something” - lead them to the evident choice: “you do not want to explain while you do not do something, we do not need to explain while we do not buy your product” (especially because it is useless). Ones like I and TS of the thread about offline mode try to explain our position (and/or position of other players that want the features we talking about), because there is very big probability that players with position that we descrived will do not buy D4. And we providing such explanation before failure of new game of Blizzard (especially because now there is such strong competitor of Diablo as PoE which was created - as think or know some fans - with the participation of devs of D3-classic that were fired).