[Theory] Auction House in RoS

[ShadowAegis-1537]

@anon87654334

I can say that it does not matter just due to optionality of AH, so it can’t affect AH-haters at all. Very simple.

The whole point of having an accurate or as close to accurate amount of players that would want your AH deity back into D3 is important. There is no reason to spend the money that Blizz would no doubt spend just to add a feature only a small amount of players would use.

@anon87654334

Nope. Because it was impossible to prove the fact of unusing it while in the case of AH-addon this fact is evident: no AH-addon - no usage of it. Moreover, I added this:

Blizz won’t add your AH deity back as an add-on, nor like it was before.

@anon87654334

You forgot about primals.

Wah, wah, wah, I got to have primal ancients for every slot now daddy dev. Give me back my AH deity now daddy dev now daddy dev.

@anon87654334

You forgot about seasons. It is impossible to collect full gear of top primals for most of people during one season. And it will be impossible to do this even with AH.

If your AH deity cannot provide a guarantee of getting useful primals then there is no need to add your deity to D3. If it is possible then that is the sole reason why you are wanting it back.

@anon87654334

AH can fix this moment. Now you just have souls.

But the whole point is that he has them. If he has found them that means that useful primals do drop. Since they do drop for someone. Factor in the fact that this game no doubt has more than 125,000 players you have the makings for players being able to get all decked out in primals faster than you think possible.

@anon87654334

Exactly, there is. Run AH and you will see this.

You would need to be able to gauge it before you would add your deity back again.

@anon87654334

You tried to think for me as you tried early to think for devs.

I already know what the devs and Blizz has stated in the articles that I provided in links earlier. You just don’t want to accept those things as facts all because it goes against having your AH deity returned to D3.

@anon87654334

And what? You already forgot that top primals give the smallest profit in the case of rankings (vs random in rifts and vs paragon) in comparison with the ancients that can be obtained by top players (now) without big efforts. And even with your position that AH will be fulled by top primals (of course, it is impossible during season), exactly nothing will be changed (even in the case of rankings). So you provided arguments without seeing all picture at once.

The whole point about having primals on your characters is that you will never have to look for another piece of gear again, ever for that character and that build. it is not about your straw man issue of it not affecting the rankings of the leader boards.

It is an issue of not wanting to keep playing a loot hunt game to hunt for better loot. Maybe loot hunt games are not for you. If that is the case then go play other games like sports games, fighting games, etc…

@anon87654334

You are wrong. Ones that on the top of leader boards must to fish rifts and to play in the certain manner using OP-builds + to provide big amount of additional actions to be on the top of LB. Your top primals are nothing for them. Ask them by yourself if did not do this yet to hear what do they talk you.

I am not saying what they are putting in that time to obtain. I am saying that they would have the time to do just that. Simply because the majority of them put in the time playing in teams. If you team a lot then you will have the benefits of getting more gear faster than others do solo. Also you will have the benefit of getting access to possibly useful primals for your build and that is without your AH deity. With it, it will be easier due to having access to millions of drops instead of just three other players that are playing with you.

Plus those on the leader boards could also change how they play in order to have perfect gear faster than ever before. Just think of it. If you never have to look for gear again in a season within about a month’s time of play. If you play efficiently you can get the job done where within a month you don’t have to ever look for gear again. That means that you can actually work on perfecting your augments, leveling your gems higher and fish for better rifts.

@anon87654334

Some of such people thinking so and now. And what?

But right now that is easily disproven by having players that think that way now just take a peek at the leader boards.

That won’t be the case with your AH deity and almost to nearly everyone on the leader boards that has primals in every slot.

@anon87654334

It does not matter without strong enough argumentation and explanation from devs. Because ones who made such solution were fired. And now they returned trade in D4. And neither you nor anyone other AH-hater can’t explain “big advantage” of trade under AH.

Blizz is the one that is calling it a mistake. Those articles there prove that is Blizz’s stance regardless of whether those people are still working for Blizz or not.

Just because trade is returning in D4 doesn’t mean that the AH deity will return. I would dare say that Blizz would see adding your deity to D4 or returning it to D3 would be like a dog returning to its own vomit.

@anon87654334

Really? Trade in D4.

Trade in D4 won’t be nearly as instant as your deity. Nor does it mean you deity will be in D4.

@anon87654334

You provided only one argument for the last case - that no one will choose playing without AH because it gives simplicity to the game. And I reminded to you about hardcore where there are players while softcore gives simplicity to the game and where - due to your logic - no one must play.

Oh I get it now, it hurts to hunt for loot in a loot hunt game. That is why you need your AH deity back. You are too lazy to get the gear yourself right. You need it even easier than ever before to be able to get perfect gear faster than it is now.

Other than that it is a nice hyperbole though.

@anon87654334

Really? They could make big mistake when they removed AH, that’s why they returned trade in D4 while there are neither AH nor trade in D3. Both AH and trade are about exchanging items. We have no exchange at all in D3.

Returning trade to D4 doesn’t mean that your AH deity will return to D3 nor will it make an appearance for D4. You are so dead set that your deity is the only way to have trade when I have said otherwise.

Oh we do have a two hour window when we play with other players to trade, maybe you have forgotten it or don’t know it.

@anon87654334

Do you want to obtain report for violating of forum rules?
I can easily provide it for you.

I am describing a simple attitude of I just can’t wait to get it. Wanting things on a silver platter, wanting instant gratification isn’t about breaking any forum rules at all. You are wanting to use it as an appeal to emotions primarily fear. Nice fallacy though.

Just admit that your deity isn’t gonna make a return to this game and put an end to this thread. I have given more than enough proof that shows it and that was just a simple five second google search that provided those articles. Just think of what I would have if I decided to do a much longer search.

Further for that comment to bother you it would have to have some ring of truth to it. If it has zero ring of truth then it shouldn’t bother you at all. The truth hurts doesn’t it.

@anon87654334

I said already: your rebalancing was done already (primals).

Look if they were re-balancing it for your AH deity then it would’ve made a return. They re-balanced it so they would be the chase items that players that want perfect gear would still have a reason to play. it is giving them a reason to still play the game. If they don’t want it then that is okay as well.

@anon87654334

You confirmed my words:

Either you personally know the difference or you don’t. If you don’t then there is nothing else I can say. That is unless you think that limited trade is identical to your AH deity. Where any game that supports trading in any manner has an AH even though the game doesn’t have one.

@anon87654334

Nice gift. Now replace in this quote “hardcore” by “no AH”. Very simple.

Just because hardcore exist doesn’t mean that your AH deity has to return. The most we could ever get would be the console’s gifting system as was mentioned by Blizz years ago at Blizzcon.

@anon87654334

I repeat again: AH has another main purpose.

What other possibility is there. It either does what it is designed to do help you get geared up with perfect primal gear or it doesn’t. There is no hybrid or middle ground. If it doesn’t give you a faster way of getting perfect primal gear then it won’t be a good idea to add your deity back.

@anon87654334

It is impossible now, due to these moments:

But still the complaint would stand. You would have to play the trading game yet again just to get near perfect to perfect gear because that is how everyone else that is competitive does it. Also players would feel forced to do it because it is the fastest way to get that kind of gear.

@anon87654334

they can still “complain that they feel that they have to play the AH trading game again” but now they will lie with 100% guarantee. Because now it is impossible to farm AH due to limitations I already did. Players MUST play in the game. If they do not want to play in the game, they can’t complain that this is due to AH. Very simple.

Again I am saying that they don’t want to play the trading game again regardless of what shape it takes. Meaning that if AH deity returns it will cause them to leave.

@anon87654334

Reword this text because I did not understand what you said.

You should know me real well by now, with our back and forth banter, along with discussing the facts. If you don’t then I wonder what you have been doing this whole time.

Either it gives a guarantee of getting top primals or it doesn’t. If it does then that means players will feel forced to use it in order to get perfect primal gear faster than what is normally possible. Or it won’t and if it doesn’t then it is not gonna be worth add it.

@anon87654334

And what? It is impossible to resell it, by it is still possible to sell them (once) for real money (Black Markets). As I know, trade of PoE does not have such limitation.

Trouble of it is the best items won’t be tradable at all. So only items that are as common as dirt or nearly common as dirt will be tradable. I highly doubt that a Dollar General Black Market would come into existence under those conditions.

@anon87654334

The only way to do not repeat mistake (if they think that they made mistake) - to do not add neither AH nor trade in D4. But they added the last one. Hi, Black Markets.
So they made mistake again. Nice.

Unless Black Markets will create a Dollar General store type market then they won’t be a problem in D4.

@anon87654334

I did not say this and even did not have this in mind.
It is only your interpretation and your mistake, no more.
I said: trade has hole for Black Markets and just this fact (regardless of the number of users of BM) will lead to removing of trade in D4 at all due to massive complaints from your “honest users”. That’s what I said.

I don’t think that there will be any black market trades due to the fact that the most valuable of items were not tradable. Therein lies the biggest strength of the new trading system.

@anon87654334

One player of PoE told today about swindlers in such trade system as PoE has and full ignorance of this fact by devs of PoE. AH provides 100% guarantee against them because do not have 1-by-1 interactions and uses intermediate pool (gold) for exchanging items.

I just showed one other method along with the next one you quoted below. You were the one asking for other ways and I have given all of them that I know about to you. Regardless of the flaws. Which I do believe that the limited trading system of D4 will handle quite well.

@anon87654334

You do not explain where Blizz find money on keeping servers of D3 and D2.

D3 could still have new players coming in that are providing the money needed. Along with the servers that they got right now are cheap enough in rent to allow for it to happen with very little to no extra income needed to keep them up and running.

@anon87654334

They already added trade in D4.
They repeated twicely their mistake.
Because neither you nor anyone AH-hater can explain difference between them.

You look at any trading system as an AH. Like your deity is everywhere, even in games that don’t have it.

@anon87654334

Exactly, they just hold silence, though they can easily confirm your words.

Nothing wrong with logic here, there inaction actually confirms that they are not adding it back again. Actions speak louder than words, something that the new president of Blizz mentioned in his mea culpa moment at Blizzcon concerning the Heartstone tournament fiasco.

@anon87654334

Position without explanation and argumentation is nothing.

They don’t need to explain everything that they do or decide to do. They made those decisions known to us and either we accept it for what it is or move on to other games that give us what we want.

Also since you won’t be buying D4 then you shouldn’t have to worry about D4’s trading system either.

[anon87654334]

@ShadowAegis-1537

The whole point of having an accurate or as close to accurate amount of players that would want your AH deity back into D3 is important.

For that I provided my arguments to think so, that will be not enough for AH-haters. Exactly, they just ignored them.

@ShadowAegis-1537

There is no reason to spend the money that Blizz would no doubt spend just to add a feature only a small amount of players would use.

We already know that it is not problem for them - to run additional servers for AH, especially, on the limited amount of time. Just because they still support servers of D2 and D3, though they can’t obtain already big amounts of money from players.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Blizz won’t add your AH deity back as an add-on, nor like it was before.

Really? I do not see their post in this thread, only silence.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Wah, wah, wah, I got to have primal ancients for every slot now daddy dev. Give me back my AH deity now daddy dev now daddy dev.

Ignored.

@ShadowAegis-1537

If your AH deity cannot provide a guarantee of getting useful primals then there is no need to add your deity to D3. If it is possible then that is the sole reason why you are wanting it back.

The main aim of AH-addon is:

@anon87654334

“For what purpose do one need AH in RoS?”

• It is possibility to exchange anything on anything ( equivalent exchange )

and your own aims are just your own aims, no more.
AH-addon shouldn’t provide solution of your problems, its iam - to return the most possible amount of players (by providing the features they asked for) without affecting another players (by rejecting such way). That’s all. It is compromise of AH-likers and AH-haters. It is not realization of ALL dreams of all players.

@ShadowAegis-1537

But the whole point is that he has them. If he has found them that means that useful primals do drop. Since they do drop for someone.

The fact is: he has something useful that he can exchange using AH and that is fully useless for him without it. And I already said to you that probability of such outcome is bigger (not extremely bigger, as you think, of course - for that to provide top primals for all players in the season during just one week because for this - if you look statistics - everyone must obtain such amount of such items by himself, which is impossible now; and this will be impossible and with AH too; you just think that AH will create biggest amount of additional items just because it is AH; nope, you are wrong - AH can create nothing, it is just a tool for share drop between all players) than the probability to obtain only one needed item (exactly, the probability of first one is bigger than probability of second time by the number of times = number of alternative items with the exactly same “quality” = cost; i.e., it is not unlimited number and even not 400 or 200).

@ShadowAegis-1537

Factor in the fact that this game no doubt has more than 125,000 players you have the makings for players being able to get all decked out in primals faster than you think possible.

As I said already, you think that in the case of 125k players AH will provide increasing of the effective droprate of items in 125k times. It is your biggest mistake. Take a pen and paper and try to simulate something like for the case of 5-10 players to view the origin of your mistake.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You would need to be able to gauge it before you would add your deity back again.

I have the best example of situation like this on my official work: my chief gave me the task for writing script (something like bot in the pattern of D3) which will be speed up some set of actions (because they tried to do this by hands and saw they spend too big time for this while I am providing for them time by time services for significant (up to 1k times or even more) acceleration of their regular work by creating the appropriate scripts = bots in pattern of D3, with the moderate cost for my work). I became to its creation (in the exactly form they asked for; especially, with the limited time for its creation) but found interesting alternative way to do this (I spend my own time for this though I knew that I can be wrong and such my time can be just waste of time without money for it) and shown the result to my chief for that to know whether I can use this way to provide for them things they asked for (it is much more elegant and clever way than was suggested initially). My chief look it and wrote to me: “wow, amazing! I think that it is the awesome solution and I will show it to our programmers.” Programmers (official ones, I have the position of consultant, I am not programmer officially) said: “wow, incredible! Nice work. We will use this idea to provide the appropriate official solution when we will can to do this.” (This exactly have usually the same meaning as usual “Blizzard soon” - may be afterwards weeks, may be afterwards months, may be afterwards years, may be never at all. I think that it is usual practice in the biggest companies.) ok. But very small amount of time after (some hours after) one problem will be appeared (again, very usual situation) - one of programmers said that some problems can be appeared with such code (the provided solution is required of using additional code on the production server which will be injected using official methods, though now it is still the practice that was forgotten many years ago and in exactly such way it was never used) due to big amount of factors that they can’t consider (different browsers, features of their servers, including bugs and some unevident features, and so on). According to this opinion and one more fact - that the final outcome will be sent to the customer (the third party) and in the case of my mistake (exactly, not due to my mistake, of course, just due to existing of many factors that I can’t consider because I do not know about them and programmers can neither provide for me such knowledge nor give for me the access to their code to obtain such knowledge by myself) they will send all back for refixing - my chief made the decision (usual, in such cases) to do not use this idea at all. We disputed about this moment some time and finally I gave an ultimatum - either I will provide the final product using my idea (because I like it and I do not hear good enough arguments against it) for that we can at least test it or they can do all by themself (i.e. by hands, as they did initially). Answer of chief: “ok, as I see it is impossible to overpersuade you, so you can do as you wish and we will test this your idea, but if it will be not work as intended and the customer will send it back for rework, only one will be guilty - you; I will say that I did not even see the final result at all.” I said: “ok, no problems; moreover I will rework all as you suggested initially with the exactly zero cost for such work.”

3 weeks later: I obtained new task for the same script and - now - without any limitations for using of my idea. Moreover, I knew that I obtained premium for my code which will be integrated officially once, though in some cases the full analogue of my idea is already existed and if this was done in these 3 weeks, it is really incredible (the fact that programmers did something so fast instead of to do this, say, after 5 years).

Why can I give an ultimatum? Just because I am providing unique services (only I - i.e. I have a monopoly on this). Of course, I can be still fired, but in such case ones for whom I provided the services I talked about can forget about acceleration of their work. Neither blue ones nor even devs of D3 can’t even to think about ultimatum for Blizzard or Activision because they just do not provide unique “services” for them and hence can be fired at any moment and can be replaced by someone else without loosing anything (profit of company and so on). That’s why I can spend my time here to explain my position and that’s why position of devs is nothing for me (without argumentation and explanation of it, of course, - I can understand anything, excepting fear to loose your job; if you can loose your job and fear about this, this means that you can be easily replaced by someone else and hence - you can’t be enough professional to do not have such fear at all).

Moreover, I can suggest such thing for your devs / Blizz / Activision - if I will be wrong in all my arguments in this thread (and this will be shown during test of this version of AH in season), they will can (must) remove my Blizzard-account (I have Deluxe-versions of D3 - with all addons + with unique things from classic and further that can’t be obtained now - and SC2 - I have 3 addons for the last one; that’s why I never used neither bots nor even TH on my account).
Can you, ShadowAegis, suggest the same (removing of your Blizzard-account) in the case if you will be wrong and I will be right?
I already suggested some AH-haters the bet on $100 (I prefer by myself the bet on $1k, of course), but they not able even for this.

@ShadowAegis-1537

The whole point about having primals on your characters is that you will never have to look for another piece of gear again, ever for that character and that build. it is not about your straw man issue of it not affecting the rankings of the leader boards.

AH does not change this moment cardinally. For that devs need to increase significantly the droprate of primals. And again - you still ignoring fully the fact of existing seasons, when players start from zero and farming gear again and again. Using your logic, obtaining the full top gear in the non season is the reason to do not play in D3 anymore. It is not so.

@ShadowAegis-1537

It is an issue of not wanting to keep playing a loot hunt game to hunt for better loot. Maybe loot hunt games are not for you.

As I know, it is also not for big amount of players - for example, for ones that go to the season just for obtaining new gifts for season and do not play in the season after this, though they do not have the best version of the gear even on the non-season. You again do not see the full picture.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Also you will have the benefit of getting access to possibly useful primals for your build and that is without your AH deity. With it, it will be easier due to having access to millions of drops instead of just three other players that are playing with you.

With it, your top players will obtain their gear by themself (as they do this now) before all other players (millions of them) will obtain access to AH (read the first post carefully and ask top players for what time they obtained their gear or just analyze rankings at the start of season) and will can farm (by themself) useful items for AH. And again you do not see the full picture. You see only your dreams. Time by time.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Plus those on the leader boards could also change how they play in order to have perfect gear faster than ever before. Just think of it.

I.e. - by your logic - top players will just wait while all other players will finish season journey and will farm items for them (playing 2 hours in a day). Really? Very funny. Some things - which are “evident” for you - will become funny if you vocalize them. That’ why neither you nor other AH-haters can provide answers on simple question which have - by your words - “evident” answers.

@ShadowAegis-1537

If you play efficiently you can get the job done where within a month you don’t have to ever look for gear again. That means that you can actually work on perfecting your augments, leveling your gems higher and fish for better rifts.

Do not think, just ask (now - top players).

@ShadowAegis-1537

But right now that is easily disproven by having players that think that way now just take a peek at the leader boards.

That won’t be the case with your AH deity and almost to nearly everyone on the leader boards that has primals in every slot.

What is the problem to ask top players about that instead of thinking by them or living in your dream? Moreover, this your argument is using the another your argument that all top players will have gear with only top primals. You are wrong in such your opinion because top primals will be still very rare items (and with big cost), so there is big difference between seeing them on AH and having possibility to obtain them.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Blizz is the one that is calling it a mistake. Those articles there prove that is Blizz’s stance regardless of whether those people are still working for Blizz or not.

Did you hear something about such simple thing as “marketing ploy”? Activision, Blizzard, devs and even blue ones will say you and other fans anything for that to increase their sells (as they think). Do you really so naive to think that all of them always talk to fans only true? Do not be simple, please.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Just because trade is returning in D4 doesn’t mean that the AH deity will return.

Trade was returned in D4 just because all these people already know that they made the biggest mistake with AH and did even bigger mistake with introducing of primals (though they understood this moment after some time after presentation of D4). That’s why they returned trade. They did not return AH just because they do not know what is exactly wrong with it (I expained this for them in this thread). And because they do not know this, they will repeat their mistake with AH in classic in the case of trade in D4 (say, Black Markets), just because they do not know what was wrong, but players leaved the game + some of them gone to PoE, where there is trade. Hence - by the opinion of devs - they will need trade to return them back. Though they do not understand another simple thing - if both games have the same features (trade) and one of them (PoE) has constant support while other (Diablo) do not have it, their trick with returning / introducing trade in D4 do not help them with returning of players (moreover, if some of players PoE ask about AH instead of trade). Nope. Only AH (ideal version of it, without holes) can return them. I think that they must just renew their consultants (managers and so on) to have the opportunity to see such evident things. And to add into their pool of consultants several professional psychologists. Of course, I am talking not about my persona - these things are too evident for that they will be interesting for me. Too boring.

@ShadowAegis-1537

I would dare say that Blizz would see adding your deity to D4 or returning it to D3 would be like a dog returning to its own vomit.

Replace the last word by the word “doghouse” or “owner”.
It is the dog, it is not wolf. Though now devs are wolfs sooner.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Trade in D4 won’t be nearly as instant as your deity. Nor does it mean you deity will be in D4.

Will I see once the explanation about “bigger difference” between AH and trade (pluses of the last one) or not?

@ShadowAegis-1537

Oh I get it now, it hurts to hunt for loot in a loot hunt game. That is why you need your AH deity back. You are too lazy to get the gear yourself right. You need it even easier than ever before to be able to get perfect gear faster than it is now.

Other than that it is a nice hyperbole though.

Ignored. Especially because there are no explanation once more time.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Returning trade to D4 doesn’t mean that your AH deity will return to D3 nor will it make an appearance for D4.

Why? Just because you think that devs said this and think so. Really?

@ShadowAegis-1537

Wanting things on a silver platter, wanting instant gratification isn’t about breaking any forum rules at all. You are wanting to use it as an appeal to emotions primarily fear.

Water.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Look if they were re-balancing it for your AH deity then it would’ve made a return.

It does not matter at all. They promised to fans (when they removed AH) the possibility to obtain anything by farming game instead of farming AH, they violate their promise when they introduced primals, so fans asked AH back.

@ShadowAegis-1537

They re-balanced it so they would be the chase items that players that want perfect gear would still have a reason to play. it is giving them a reason to still play the game. If they don’t want it then that is okay as well.

It is your arguments and ones of AH-haters. This thread provided the way for you to play as you wish (using your arguments) without affecting you by ones who have another opinion and will use AH. What problems do you have?

@ShadowAegis-1537

Either you personally know the difference or you don’t. If you don’t then there is nothing else I can say.

Because you do not know this difference by yourself and hence you can’t vocalize it if I can’t. Nice.

@ShadowAegis-1537

That is unless you think that limited trade is identical to your AH deity. Where any game that supports trading in any manner has an AH even though the game doesn’t have one.

You said that there are “big difference” between them. Show it.

@ShadowAegis-1537

What other possibility is there. It either does what it is designed to do help you get geared up with perfect primal gear or it doesn’t. There is no hybrid or middle ground. If it doesn’t give you a faster way of getting perfect primal gear then it won’t be a good idea to add your deity back.

Explained already.

@ShadowAegis-1537

But still the complaint would stand. You would have to play the trading game yet again just to get near perfect to perfect gear because that is how everyone else that is competitive does it. Also players would feel forced to do it because it is the fastest way to get that kind of gear.

Describe this farming of AH and forcing to this more exactly, step by step: you go on AH and then you… (continue by yourself). For that to provide your misunderstanding of the role of these two items in this idea of ideal AH.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Again I am saying that they don’t want to play the trading game again regardless of what shape it takes. Meaning that if AH deity returns it will cause them to leave.

No problems at all: do not want to play in AH - do not buy AH-addon.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Trouble of it is the best items won’t be tradable at all. So only items that are as common as dirt or nearly common as dirt will be tradable. I highly doubt that a Dollar General Black Market would come into existence under those conditions.

This is so while: a) devs do not make one more mistake so that very rare items for trading will be appeared = appearing of Black Markets; b) players do not assure devs to remove this limitation at all (again Black Markets).
It there are no rare items for trading at all, this means that trading is useless in the game (it is like now, in RoS, AH or trade just for white / blue / yellow items which are not bounded to the account at all), so - exactly - no trading at all.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Unless Black Markets will create a Dollar General store type market then they won’t be a problem in D4.

And what is the solution of devs in the case of their appearing? Do you know? No? Removing of trade at all. Like it was in D3 with AH.

@ShadowAegis-1537

I don’t think that there will be any black market trades due to the fact that the most valuable of items were not tradable. Therein lies the biggest strength of the new trading system.

Hm. Interesting. How do you think what amount of players (from ones who asked for AH or even for trade without limitations) will buy D4 with such trade (which is useless for them)? I think - 1.5 humans.

@ShadowAegis-1537

D3 could still have new players coming in that are providing the money needed. Along with the servers that they got right now are cheap enough in rent to allow for it to happen with very little to no extra income needed to keep them up and running.

And what is wrong in such case with the servers for AH-addon?

@ShadowAegis-1537

Nothing wrong with logic here, there inaction actually confirms that they are not adding it back again. Actions speak louder than words

You are wrong, because there are no actions at all.

@ShadowAegis-1537

They don’t need to explain everything that they do or decide to do. They made those decisions known to us and either we accept it for what it is or move on to other games that give us what we want.

Yeah. That’s why they can change their position when people leaved their game massively. Very bad practice, I think, - to change your position when you already loose anything with the naive faith that players will forgive you all (all your silence and your inactivity during many years).

@ShadowAegis-1537

Also since you won’t be buying D4 then you shouldn’t have to worry about D4’s trading system either.

I am not full egoist as you and other AH-haters - I am worry about other fans and their feelings in the case of repeating the situation with AH-classic in D4 with its trade.

[ShadowAegis-1537]

@anon87654334

For that I provided my arguments to think so, that will be not enough for AH-haters. Exactly, they just ignored them.

Blizz like us needs such figures and probably knows that you AH diety’s numbers of those wanting them are so low it isn’t worth it. That would be true if they wanted to be like a dog returning to its vomit by adding your deity back again using your idea, which they don’t and won’t do it.

@anon87654334

We already know that it is not problem for them - to run additional servers for AH, especially, on the limited amount of time. Just because they still support servers of D2 and D3, though they can’t obtain already big amounts of money from players.

Look there is a big difference is supporting servers that are for the game itself than supporting servers for your deity, more so if it is only for a short period of time.

If only a small percentage would use it because it doesn’t really guarantee primals then you just won’t be able to justify the cost before management. Now if it guarantees primals, which is what you want it to do and it is used by more players then you think they will add it.

The only reason other players that normally wouldn’t want it would use it because they would feel forced to use it to get perfect gear. Then they are boosted to perfect gear very fast so they don’t have to look for other pieces of gear.

Also the Black Market can come into play. Where someone would pay the Black Market money outside of the AH to get them to trade item for item, primal for primal. Then all the buyer has to do is have a primal to trade. Those types of trades would take junk primals for top primals. Thus the hole you talked about in trading that D4 has with player to player trading, your precious deity has that same hole.

@anon87654334

Really? I do not see their post in this thread, only silence.

I have already told you their stance in those articles that I found. You are not gonna listen to that nor would you listen to them if they did post the same thing that I mentioned in those articles

@anon87654334

and your own aims are just your own aims, no more.
AH-addon shouldn’t provide solution of your problems, its iam - to return the most possible amount of players (by providing the features they asked for) without affecting another players (by rejecting such way). That’s all. It is compromise of AH-likers and AH-haters. It is not realization of ALL dreams of all players.

What a small subsection of players that asked for trading to return. Oh wait a minute, you look at all forms of trading other than AH as you AH deity right. Even player to player trading without an AH is you AH deity right. All because you deity says that everyone wants it. Otherwise you are pulling those numbers out of the place that the sun doesn’t shine.

@anon87654334

The fact is: he has something useful that he can exchange using AH and that is fully useless for him without it.

But it still had to drop for him in order for it to exist to be usable in trade in an AH to begin with. And now I see the hole in your logic.

@anon87654334

And I already said to you that probability of such outcome is bigger (not extremely bigger, as you think, of course - for that to provide top primals for all players in the season during just one week because for this - if you look statistics - everyone must obtain such amount of such items by himself, which is impossible now; and this will be impossible and with AH too

Look even I found a few primals this season that might’ve been great for a few IK builds. I don’t know if chest and pants for most IK set builds would be defensive or not. But that is how they dropped. So even I can find a few here and there. Those that play much longer than me can possibly find more.

Those that play in teams can find even more due to extra team mates.

Then you have those that bot that will find tons more than any of us combined.

Also you don’t see that AH will not be used to truly trade top primals for top primals like you think. There won’t be a way for the AH to check to see if the primal the player is wanting to give to the other player is top primal or not. If the piece for piece is too specific then no trade would happen. Look at my earlier comment on how the black market would take advantage of your deity.

The programmers of the AH would have to put in the affixes for every piece of gear that is part of a top end clearing or speed build. The work involved would be too much time and money spent to even come close to pulling it off. Then all that would be needed is one mistake in the programming and all sorts of things would go wrong with trading and posting. If it isn’t in programing but with those listing their items then if they are too specific then chances are no trade so your deity becomes a useless hunk of junk.

@anon87654334

Can you, ShadowAegis , suggest the same (removing of your Blizzard-account) in the case if you will be wrong and I will be right?
I already suggested some AH-haters the bet on $100 (I prefer by myself the bet on $1k, of course), but they not able even for this.

Oh now instead of trying to actually show that I could be right you want to say if you are not willing to risk your account then side with me to put the AH back in again. Sorry but it is not about putting accounts at risk here it is about knowing what the devs have said about the AH. What Blizz themselves have said about it. It is knowing how players felt about your deity as well. All of those things together is what it is all about and why your deity will never return to this game. This is what it is truly about. Get over it, your deity won’t be returning to RoS.

@anon87654334

Using your logic, obtaining the full top gear in the non season is the reason to do not play in D3 anymore. It is not so.

You probably have the majority playing seasons. That they play non season can do all sorts of things with their characters. They can chase after new items for different builds just for the fun of it. Now that there are new items to play with that means that even non season has something to play with as well. Besides primals are only there for those that want to chase after them. They are not there for everyone.

Besides like I said in the portion your quoted if you don’t like having to hunt for loot in a loot hunt game then loot hunt games are not for you. They are not about getting all of the best or near best loot as fast as you can like this game does with most of the gear. You wouldn’t stand five minutes in any other normal loot hunt game that has other pieces of gear that are really hard to find like PoE. Forget about doing that because you would be begging the devs to hand that gear to you on a silver platter.

@anon87654334

With it, your top players will obtain their gear by themself (as they do this now) before all other players (millions of them) will obtain access to AH (read the first post carefully and ask top players for what time they obtained their gear or just analyze rankings at the start of season) and will can farm (by themself) useful items for AH. And again you do not see the full picture. You see only your dreams. Time by time.

You have probably never even came close to clearing a GR121+ let alone doing any fishing for GRs. You just don’t understand what goes on at those high levels of GR clears.

Plus you don’t get the full picture when comparing drops either. There are a lot of other factors that goes into it as well. Also you are thinking that all players using it will use it to only trade top primals for top primals when you are wrong. Top primals for to primals won’t be the only primals traded. Junk primals for top primals will be traded by those that are in the black market to make money off of D3. You AH deity has blinded your eyes to the real truth of the power of millions of drops and how players would use it for good and bad.

@anon87654334

I.e. - by your logic - top players will just wait while all other players will finish season journey and will farm items for them (playing 2 hours in a day). Really? Very funny. Some things - which are “evident” for you - will become funny if you vocalize them. That’ why neither you nor other AH-haters can provide answers on simple question which have - by your words - “evident” answers.

With an AH the efficient ways to play D3 would change and you know it. They won’t do it the same old way they are doing it now.

@anon87654334

Do not think, just ask (now - top players).

Oh and players don’t keep working on leveling their gems, getting better augments, fish for better rifts, farm paragons, etc… Playing the game of inches to get their characters higher in the GR clears.

@anon87654334

What is the problem to ask top players about that instead of thinking by them or living in your dream?

Again appearances do drive people to do things that they normally won’t do at all. Why else do you think that a lot of the world first guides in WoW have taken advantages of exploits in WoW. Knowing full well that their world first clear would be tainted. It is because they feared if they didn’t some other guild would beat them to it.

It is all based on appearances here and you just don’t see how quickly those items would be available under your idea. Players are more likely to find good primals that can be used for other builds either for the same class or other classes and if they play long enough in a season they are likely to find enough to trade for all slots. More so when you play in such a way that increases your legendaries per hour because that is what it would a be all about. Playing at the level that gets the most legendaries per hour. More legendaries per hour means more chances for primals. More primals means more chances of getting top primals.

Then players would likely not be interested in getting the minor upgrades in ancients when they have all ancient items with the right affixes and decent rolls. Then they would only go for the red beams of light.

@anon87654334

Did you hear something about such simple thing as “marketing ploy”? Activision, Blizzard, devs and even blue ones will say you and other fans anything for that to increase their sells (as they think). Do you really so naive to think that all of them always talk to fans only true? Do not be simple, please.

You really think that businesses never speak the truth. Then I guess your supervisor was only telling you what you wanted to hear. When in reality that person didn’t like what you did at all. They probably even think that you stink at doing your job. Remember business never tell the real truth right. They were using just a ploy to tickle your ears.

Look Blizz listens to player feedback as well as play their own game. Anyone with half a brain could tell that your deity has its flaws, even your idea won’t fix them all. and you know it.

@anon87654334

Trade was returned in D4 just because all these people already know that they made the biggest mistake with AH and did even bigger mistake with introducing of primals (though they understood this moment after some time after presentation of D4).

First of all the AH deity isn’t the only way to trade. D4’s trading is player to player not an AH, although you cannot separate the two. To you PoE has an AH because it has player to player trading.

Next you really are blind if you think that it took only a few seconds for Blizz to decide at Blizzcon to add trade back to D4. They talked about the current iteration of trade that was in D4 at the time they presented it not some time after presentation. Get your facts straight.

@anon87654334

They did not return AH just because they do not know what is exactly wrong with it (I expained this for them in this thread).

They are not returning your deity because they don’t want to. Not because they want to but don’t know how to do it. Your idea doesn’t fix all problems and you know it. Your own deity also has the same black market hole. All any black market would have to do is have accounts that farm primals for trade. Then tell the players that buy from them that all they need to trade for the top primals is give them junk primals. I highly doubt Blizz would be able to prevent junk primals being traded for top notch primals. Heck even normal legit players might be willing to take junk primals for top primals if it means getting another 15 FS and it gets that piece out of their inventory.

@anon87654334

Only AH (ideal version of it, without holes) can return them

Yes I realize that you worship your AH deity as the best form of trading when there are other ways that do work even though it has holes. In fact your deity has its holes as well, even with your ideas.

@anon87654334

It is the dog, it is not wolf. Though now devs are wolfs sooner.

I am using the dog returning to its vomit to point out something real simple. It is bad for a dog to do that even though that is what they do. Thus stating how bad it would be for Blizz to put the AH deity back again is the same thing as a dog returning to its vomit.

@anon87654334

Will I see once the explanation about “bigger difference” between AH and trade (pluses of the last one) or not?

I know that you see all types of trading in games as AH. Your deity exists even in games that truly don’t have an AH.

@anon87654334

It does not matter at all. They promised to fans (when they removed AH) the possibility to obtain anything by farming game instead of farming AH, they violate their promise when they introduced primals, so fans asked AH back.

Silly Blizz how dare them have anything in a game that takes an extreme amount of time to do huh. Well that is what playing games are all about. If players could reach max level and in a couple of weeks have all top notch gear and have 5-10k paragon in a season with top clears in the GR140-150 range then they would be done playing for the season. Game companies don’t want that to happen and neither do players. They want gearing to take a long time. In fact there are many that would love the rain of legendaries to stop in this game. Just because primals exist doesn’t make them must haves. There is no GR that will prevent you from entering without having all primals.

@anon87654334

It is your arguments and ones of AH-haters. This thread provided the way for you to play as you wish (using your arguments) without affecting you by ones who have another opinion and will use AH. What problems do you have?

It doesn’t cover all of the holes and you know it. Your idea just won’t work no matter how hard you try to make it work.

@anon87654334

Because you do not know this difference by yourself and hence you can’t vocalize it if I can’t. Nice.

I would dare say that we both know the difference which is why I don’t mention it.

@anon87654334

You said that there are “big difference” between them. Show it.

But that is the problem your AH deity is any game that supports trading. Even games that don’t have an AH actually have one according to you. Which means that PoE has an AH even though it doesn’t.

@anon87654334

No problems at all: do not want to play in AH - do not buy AH-addon.

They would leave even though they don’t buy the add-on. They would leave knowing that the AH is the fastest way to getting gear. Why else do you think that GGG hasn’t made trading easier than what they have done already. It is because they know if trading becomes the fastest and easiest way to get gear than playing the game then players won’t be playing the game to get the gear they would be playing a trading game.

@anon87654334

It there are no rare items for trading at all, this means that trading is useless in the game (it is like now, in RoS, AH or trade just for white / blue / yellow items which are not bounded to the account at all), so - exactly - no trading at all.

So that is the point either it is free trading or no trading at all. Sorry but I do think that their current iteration of limited trading will work out just fine. Players in the game will be just fine with the trading system. Where they can do some trading with items that have no restrictions along with the bind on trade items. The rest they will be able to find on their own or possibly craft them. Crafting is another avenue that hasn’t been mentioned yet.

@anon87654334

And what is the solution of devs in the case of their appearing? Do you know? No? Removing of trade at all. Like it was in D3 with AH.

I am just saying that it is not likely to return in D4. Or if it does return that it will be so small that it is virtually non existent to the majority of players.

@anon87654334

Hm. Interesting. How do you think what amount of players (from ones who asked for AH or even for trade without limitations) will buy D4 with such trade (which is useless for them)? I think - 1.5 humans.

If you think that those that would love for a black market to sell D4 items wouldn’t join their voices with those that want free and unlimited trading in D4 you just don’t understand human nature. Because trading to them is useless unless they can trade the most valuable items in the game.

@anon87654334

And what is wrong in such case with the servers for AH-addon?

Increasing monthly costs for a game that is basically in maintenance mode due to being in Classic’s hands isn’t a wise idea.

@anon87654334

You are wrong, because there are no actions at all.

I guess then you have never heard the no action is an action, google it you will learn something.

@anon87654334

Yeah. That’s why they can change their position when people leaved their game massively. Very bad practice, I think, - to change your position when you already loose anything with the naive faith that players will forgive you all (all your silence and your inactivity during many years).

You actually believe that players have left in droves because of your deity not being in this game. Actually the reverse is true, there have been more players returning when your deity left.

@anon87654334

I am not full egoist as you and other AH-haters - I am worry about other fans and their feelings in the case of repeating the situation with AH-classic in D4 with its trade.

Why worry about D4 if you are not gonna buy it due to lacking the features that you mentioned. It proves it is not the game for you. There is nothing egotistical about it, it is merely stating a fact. If a game is not for you there is no ego involve.

You might be one that loves PvP focused games while I don’t. My dislike of those games carries no ego at all and your love for them carries no ego when you are stating the fact that you either love them or hate them.

[UndeadMarioE-2129]

we cant downvote anymore ? I don’t find it anywhere

[anon87654334]

@ShadowAegis-1537

Look there is a big difference is supporting servers that are for the game itself than supporting servers for your deity, more so if it is only for a short period of time.

If only a small percentage would use it

Really? The lowest percentage of ones who bought D2 and D3 now playing in these games providing exactly zero profit for Blizz. So your argument is very funny.

@ShadowAegis-1537

because it doesn’t really guarantee primals then you just won’t be able to justify the cost before management.

Your dream about having top primals blinded your view. AH is the way to exchange anything on anything, it is not about primals only. Primals is the best argument for you - AH-haters - that wrote about rain of legs and useless of AH at all.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Also the Black Market can come into play. Where someone would pay the Black Market money outside of the AH to get them to trade item for item, primal for primal. Then all the buyer has to do is have a primal to trade. Those types of trades would take junk primals for top primals. Thus the hole you talked about in trading that D4 has with player to player trading, your precious deity has that same hole.

Read carefully my first post in this thread to see how I solved this problem with Black Markets in this theory of ideal AH without holes. In the case of trade there is possibility for appearing of Black Markets while in the case of ideal AH from this thread it is impossible initially.

@ShadowAegis-1537

I have already told you their stance in those articles that I found. You are not gonna listen to that nor would you listen to them if they did post the same thing that I mentioned in those articles

It does not matter at all. It is just their position. It is not their arguments and explanations. Moreover, we already knew that devs made and make mistake, so this their position may be just one more such mistake. Very simple.

@ShadowAegis-1537

What a small subsection of players that asked for trading to return. Oh wait a minute, you look at all forms of trading other than AH as you AH deity right. Even player to player trading without an AH is you AH deity right. All because you deity says that everyone wants it. Otherwise you are pulling those numbers out of the place that the sun doesn’t shine.

As I said already, when we do not know exact number and can’t to provide 100% guarantees of our knowledge, we can just to check this moment (introducing AH in season like its buff). No problems. No affecting of further seasons. Very simple solution. And only one your counterargument - devs will not do this. Why? Because they just do not want (without providing any arguments and explanations). Their one more mistake, no more.

@ShadowAegis-1537

But it still had to drop for him in order for it to exist to be usable in trade in an AH to begin with. And now I see the hole in your logic.

No hole. devs said: “we want that users play in the game too, not only play in AH” - the situation you described show the same logic (one must play in the game to have items for exchange even in the case of AH). Your dream about taking top primals for pennies on AH is only dream. Also as your dream about rain of ALL legs, including top primals. Of course, I provided realization of its logic in the this theory of ideal AH, because it is very good argument against AH.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Look even I found a few primals this season that might’ve been great for a few IK builds. I don’t know if chest and pants for most IK set builds would be defensive or not. But that is how they dropped. So even I can find a few here and there. Those that play much longer than me can possibly find more.

I already explained this moment about your “gamblers fallasy”. It is random. With no 100% guarantees for anyone single player. There are some guarantees only for full pool of them. Reread wikipedia again if you already forgot about this moment.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Then you have those that bot that will find tons more than any of us combined.

There is only one 100% guarantee - bot will find tons more garbage than usual casual player (say, in 12 times more - if it farms 24 hours in a day vs player which farms 2 hours in a day). Who will obtain faster very rare top primal - is the big question. Because of random. It is like lottery - one can buy a ticket once in his life and win, while other one can buy tickets during big amount of time and never win. If you do not understand what is random, just remember examples from real life.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Also you don’t see that AH will not be used to truly trade top primals for top primals like you think. There won’t be a way for the AH to check to see if the primal the player is wanting to give to the other player is top primal or not. If the piece for piece is too specific then no trade would happen.

You do not understand another thing from real life - the sence of work of Stock Exchange. And also you do not understand such another simple thing as Market Law, which can say you that equivalent top primals will have (at the end, after initial perturbations) the same cost. Moreover, their cost will have their own dynamic, but it does not matter at all, because we can be sure with 100% guarantee in the one - always equivalent top primals will have the same cost. If such item will have much bigger cost, it will be unclaimed. If such item will have much less cost, its cost will be fastly increasing due to features of AH. Anyway, at the end, the balance between supply and demand will be reached. That’s how Market Law works in the real life and will work on AH too, of course.

@ShadowAegis-1537

The programmers of the AH would have to put in the affixes for every piece of gear that is part of a top end clearing or speed build. The work involved would be too much time and money spent to even come close to pulling it off. Then all that would be needed is one mistake in the programming and all sorts of things would go wrong with trading and posting. If it isn’t in programing but with those listing their items then if they are too specific then chances are no trade so your deity becomes a useless hunk of junk.

They do not need to do this at all - the market will put everything in its place. As it was in classic. The problem with Black Markets in classic was appeared due to artificial restrictions on the max possible cost of items on gold and real money AH by devs, so - when the cost of items increased these limitations - Black Markets was appeared. I.e. their appearance is the initial mistake of devs, no more. Without limitations (or with bigger values for them) Black Markets was not appeared at all. In the case of D4 Black Markets can be appeared again because no possibility for trading for real money, so - if there will be the chance to trade by anything for real money - of course, Black Markets will be appeared. The another Market Law - “if if there is a demand, there will definitely be an offer”. It is very confusing that devs / Blizz / Activision do not know such simplest laws of market.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Oh now instead of trying to actually show that I could be right you want to say if you are not willing to risk your account then side with me to put the AH back in again. Sorry but it is not about putting accounts at risk here it is about knowing what the devs have said about the AH. What Blizz themselves have said about it. It is knowing how players felt about your deity as well. All of those things together is what it is all about and why your deity will never return to this game. This is what it is truly about. Get over it, your deity won’t be returning to RoS.

As I said already, the main difference between me and you (and other AH-haters) in the fact that I can try to risk by my account to show my faith in my arguments, while you - can’t. Even with your faith in the fact that devs never returned AH back. What is problem with you?

@ShadowAegis-1537

You probably have the majority playing seasons. That they play non season can do all sorts of things with their characters. They can chase after new items for different builds just for the fun of it. Now that there are new items to play with that means that even non season has something to play with as well. Besides primals are only there for those that want to chase after them. They are not there for everyone.

Besides like I said in the portion your quoted if you don’t like having to hunt for loot in a loot hunt game then loot hunt games are not for you. They are not about getting all of the best or near best loot as fast as you can like this game does with most of the gear. You wouldn’t stand five minutes in any other normal loot hunt game that has other pieces of gear that are really hard to find like PoE. Forget about doing that because you would be begging the devs to hand that gear to you on a silver platter.

I do not understand only one moment: what is the problem for all these players you described to do not use AH at all if they do not want to do this (using arguments you described)? A already gave you example of softcore vs hardcore - all your arguments can be used for that to say that existing of softcore is forcing to play on it and hence this mode must be removed at all.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You have probably never even came close to clearing a GR121+ let alone doing any fishing for GRs. You just don’t understand what goes on at those high levels of GR clears.

Really? I said my opinion to top players, they confirmed my point of view.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Plus you don’t get the full picture when comparing drops either. There are a lot of other factors that goes into it as well.

Ask top players about all of them and provide them. Very simple.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Also you are thinking that all players using it will use it to only trade top primals for top primals when you are wrong.

I never said this. It is again only your interpretation, no more. Of course, I know that AH will be used for big amount of purposes. It is evident (for me). But for AH-haters I can provide counterarguments only for the things they do not like.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Junk primals for top primals will be traded by those that are in the black market to make money off of D3.

For that purpose it is needed the existance of such hole while I removed it at all.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You AH deity has blinded your eyes to the real truth of the power of millions of drops and how players would use it for good and bad.

Really? Try to say me something that I do not know yet.
With examples. With arguments and explanations. Like I do.

@ShadowAegis-1537

With an AH the efficient ways to play D3 would change and you know it.

I know that start of season is not changed at all.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Oh and players don’t keep working on leveling their gems, getting better augments, fish for better rifts, farm paragons, etc… Playing the game of inches to get their characters higher in the GR clears.

Perhaps, you do not know WHERE they do most of these things the most amount of time. They do them (gems, paragon) on “fasts”. Do you know what this means and what requirements to the gear this provided? No? Ask top players, they will explain you this moment. And yes, fishing rifts is provided with the already ready gear.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Again appearances do drive people to do things that they normally won’t do at all.

I can do this. Why do your people and you can’t or won’t do this?

@ShadowAegis-1537

It is all based on appearances here and you just don’t see how quickly those items would be available under your idea. Players are more likely to find good primals that can be used for other builds either for the same class or other classes and if they play long enough in a season they are likely to find enough to trade for all slots. More so when you play in such a way that increases your legendaries per hour because that is what it would a be all about. Playing at the level that gets the most legendaries per hour. More legendaries per hour means more chances for primals. More primals means more chances of getting top primals.

Then players would likely not be interested in getting the minor upgrades in ancients when they have all ancient items with the right affixes and decent rolls. Then they would only go for the red beams of light.

It is again your dreams, no more.
Remember classic and top items of it.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You really think that businesses never speak the truth.

Don’t generalize, as you do usually. I think that Microsoft can speak the truth and even more - can do anything that they want (even can ignore position of USA goverment). May be Valve can do the same. But we are talking about Blizzard. They can’t always speak the truth. Because they fear USA goverment and they even fear their fans. They demonstrated the appropriate behavior many times, in the last time - on the HotS tournament, before Blizzcon. It is not behavior of ones who can answer for their actions without taking into consideration their fear.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Then I guess your supervisor was only telling you what you wanted to hear. When in reality that person didn’t like what you did at all. They probably even think that you stink at doing your job. Remember business never tell the real truth right. They were using just a ploy to tickle your ears.

I know my chief very well + we intersect in real life sometimes, though I can that you are definitely wrong. As regards to the opinion of supervisors, I think that you are again faaar away from real life. If any supervisor do not like anyone by any reason, he will find very fast enough cause to dismiss this human. But if he understand the existence of profit from it and impossibility of replacing him by anyone else, he (supervisor) will say truth about his work (because it is exact reason while he was not dismissed yet) and he (supervisor) can think anything that he wants about him. It does not matter at all. Especially, if it is not secret at all for this human (who can’t be dismissed by any reason) which knows exactly what he is and he does not need to leave in his own dreamworld for that to hide this evident fact from himself.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Look Blizz listens to player feedback as well as play their own game.

Yeah. I also listen this joke that “Blizz hear players”.
We can easily see this on this forum in the most of threads with suggestions.

@ShadowAegis-1537

First of all the AH deity isn’t the only way to trade. D4’s trading is player to player not an AH, although you cannot separate the two. To you PoE has an AH because it has player to player trading.

Yeah. And neither you nor any other AH-hater can’t explain the difference between them. Of course, I will never know about such difference because you hard to hide it.
PoE has trade with the functional of AH. It is not 100% AH.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Next you really are blind if you think that it took only a few seconds for Blizz to decide at Blizzcon to add trade back to D4. They talked about the current iteration of trade that was in D4 at the time they presented it not some time after presentation. Get your facts straight.

I did not say this. Of course, it was not fully instant decision.

@ShadowAegis-1537

They are not returning your deity because they don’t want to. Not because they want to but don’t know how to do it.

Just do not want? Without argumentation? May be or may be not.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Your idea doesn’t fix all problems and you know it.

Exactly, I suggested it here because I know exactly that my idea fixed all problems of AH. Moreover, neither you nor big amount of other AH-haters can’t provide neither the list of additional problems I need to solve nor strong enough arguments while - by your opinion - suggested in my theory items do not solve problems of AH (with vocalizing of such problems, of course). No one AH-hater could do this dirung 3k+ posts of disputing of my idea on 2 forums (new ones, of course).

@ShadowAegis-1537

Your own deity also has the same black market hole.

Nope.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Yes I realize that you worship your AH deity as the best form of trading when there are other ways that do work even though it has holes.

Vocalize your “other way” without holes. It will be interesting to see it.

@ShadowAegis-1537

I know that you see all types of trading in games as AH. Your deity exists even in games that truly don’t have an AH.

I repeat again: “Will I see once the explanation about “bigger difference” between AH and trade (pluses of the last one) or not?”

@ShadowAegis-1537

Silly Blizz how dare them have anything in a game that takes an extreme amount of time to do huh. Well that is what playing games are all about.

Water. They promised. They violated their promise. Players leaved the game.

@ShadowAegis-1537

It doesn’t cover all of the holes and you know it. Your idea just won’t work no matter how hard you try to make it work.

I know that it covers all holes. Also I know that AH-haters can’t argue their position at all.

@ShadowAegis-1537

I would dare say that we both know the difference which is why I don’t mention it.

Really? So it will be not problem for you to vocalize it. Do it.

@ShadowAegis-1537

They would leave even though they don’t buy the add-on. They would leave knowing that the AH is the fastest way to getting gear.

While did hardcore players not leave D3 knowing about softcore?

@ShadowAegis-1537

So that is the point either it is free trading or no trading at all. Sorry but I do think that their current iteration of limited trading will work out just fine. Players in the game will be just fine with the trading system. Where they can do some trading with items that have no restrictions along with the bind on trade items. The rest they will be able to find on their own or possibly craft them. Crafting is another avenue that hasn’t been mentioned yet.

Really? ok, you will check this moment in D4. It will be interesting to see your opinion after that moment.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Or if it does return that it will be so small that it is virtually non existent to the majority of players.

Boxing bots. There is very small amount of them, but it is “big problem” for the big amount of players. Nice example?

@ShadowAegis-1537

If you think that those that would love for a black market to sell D4 items wouldn’t join their voices with those that want free and unlimited trading in D4 you just don’t understand human nature. Because trading to them is useless unless they can trade the most valuable items in the game.

We will see all in D4 and you will check all your arguments in it.
Do not forget to return in this thread to write that you was fully wrong and I will be fully right if this will be happened in D4.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Increasing monthly costs for a game that is basically in maintenance mode due to being in Classic’s hands isn’t a wise idea.

Increasing of number of players in the season with nice buff (and the number of servers to hold them) lead also to increasing monthly costs for a game and it is not problem at all because your classic team continue suggest new and new season buffs. Again very bad argument from you.

@ShadowAegis-1537

I guess then you have never heard the no action is an action, google it you will learn something.

No action is no action. Like silence. Or their words “we hear you”.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You actually believe that players have left in droves because of your deity not being in this game. Actually the reverse is true, there have been more players returning when your deity left.

Really? Ask Blizz about exact data of their sells of D3 during time.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Why worry about D4 if you are not gonna buy it due to lacking the features that you mentioned. It proves it is not the game for you. There is nothing egotistical about it, it is merely stating a fact. If a game is not for you there is no ego involve.

It is egoism - thinking only about yourself fully ignoring others.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You might be one that loves PvP focused games while I don’t. My dislike of those games carries no ego at all and your love for them carries no ego when you are stating the fact that you either love them or hate them.

Thinking about problems of other - what is the main distinction between egoist and full egoist (the last one do not think about problems of other ones at all).

@UndeadMarioE-2129

we cant downvote anymore ?

Nope. Bye.

[Aysrian-1127]

Ah will never happen again. Good to see you read all the posts though. As far as harder you mentioned HC.I do play a lot of Hc it is to easy. Ah was never allowed HC I would like to see trading disappear HC to be honest

[ShadowAegis-1537]

@UndeadMarioE-2129

we cant downvote anymore ? I don’t find it anywhere

No we cannot down vote anymore due to players abusing it just because they didn’t agree with the ones posting.

[Meteorblade-2266]

@ShadowAegis-1537

players abusing it just because they didn’t agree with the ones posting.

Clicking “Like” was short-hand for indicating you liked what someone wrote without the need to make a post in the thread.

Clicking “Dislike” was short-hand for indicating you didn’t like what someone wrote without the need to make a post in the thread.

Why is the first one okay, but the second is abuse?

[ShadowAegis-1537]

@wrace: If you think that anything is gonna get posted you are just not thinking straight. There will be many junk items that will never get posted at all. Items that are totally useless because changing one property on them won’t make them useful. Those items are as common as dirt. No reason to be trading those items. Next the really good gear will not get traded either because gear drops like rain. The really top ancients will not get traded at all, because players will be able to find them easily for the builds that they are playing. If no one is playing any build that uses a particular item then it won’t get traded at all.

That knocks out two sets of items with ease. So the only thing left are primals. If your deity cannot guarantee top notch primals then there will be a small amount of players using it. A smaller subsection will be those that are getting their items for real money.

If your deity can guarantee top notch primals then you will have a lot of players using it. That is because they will feel forced to do so.

If you can trade a top notch or even some junk normal-ancient legendaries for top notch primals then that is what will happen in the black market.

What your deity will be programmed for all of the top pushing builds so you can only trade the same top notch gear for top notch gear. I highly doubt that would be possible. With the way that the game changes from time to time you would have to change what is in the program. Then there is human error to account for the factor.

Then you said anything for anything. So that would mean that the black markets could thrive by trading top notch gear for junk. They wouldn’t be playing to get better gear because their farmers would have more than enough gear to bot to get better gear for the purpose of selling for real money.

Their position is not a mistake, they got rid of your deity a long time ago and they are not gonna turn around and add it back. There is no way that you can justify it to management. You are the one that is thinking it is a mistake when it isn’t. There were a lot of players that returned when the AHs were removed. No doubt more returned than left otherwise they would be looking for ways of adding it back or at the very least the gifting system from consoles like they said years ago at a Blizzcon.

According to your deity it isn’t raining legendaries that is a big belly laugh. Thanks for the laugh, but if that is your best joke you will need to work on your material if you want to be a comedian. Otherwise you are in a fantasy land where it isn’t raining legendaries.

I double checked Icy veins and I was right. Those primals that I found would’ve been useful for two different builds. All that would be needed for either build at most is to change one affix and it is a perfect piece of gear for that build which is real easy to do.

More legendaries per hour equals more chances for top notch gear which includes primal gear as well as regular ancient gear.

AH Deity is not real life marketing nor can it equate to it because the AH is not designed as the same type of market as stocks. Besides if stocks went up and down solely on demand of them then there wouldn’t be any down turn of them at all. Because it would be based entirely on popularity not anything else. I highly doubt it is based entirely on popularity. There are no doubt other factors that affect the market than just popularity.

Now it is a market without limits and you really think that the Black Market won’t find a way of getting a piece of the action.

You really believe that legit real money trading has to be part of D4 as well as this game. That will be the thing that erases the Black Market. Trading for real money without limits, oh boy is that a laugh. That will still have players using the Black Market anyway. More so because the Black Market will find a way of taking part of the legit real money trading. That is how the Black Market works.

It is not about risking anyone’s account. It is about the facts of whether or not your AH deity is a good idea to add to the game or not. Along with the fact that regardless of whether you idea would work or not they won’t add it.

You don’t understand or don’t want to understand players feelings and appearances. To be honest you probably don’t care to. Your AH deity is all that matters to you, and your fantasy idea that it will work.

Since I have been a more serious player from season to season I now better understand the problems of fishing for GR clears along with a host of other things that I care not to mention.

As far as Black Markets goes this is how it would happen with your deity. Through chat spam or through google searches the Black Market will get their websites advertised. Then players that want to use them will pay x amount of real money for top primal y. Then they will strike a deal of how to trade for the item (s) that they are buying. Just keep a few junk primals or even some junk ancients and you will be good to go.

You keep changing your stance from moment to moment. Forgetting what you said earlier in the same reply. This shows me that you know that your idea won’t work and there is no way to make it work.

You really think that just because the 1-70 doesn’t change with your deity that makes it okay to add it. Like that is the most important part of the game. If it was then we would take way longer to reach level 70 along with getting into the endgame before 70. Where 70 would be the new 99 for D3. But since that is not the case, leveling is just a bump in the road so nothing can change that unless Blizz wants the leveling to be much longer in this game.

I don’t need to ask top players because some of them make videos explaining things. That is unless you think that the only way to learn is to personally speak to them. Like their videos have nothing but lies and person to person chatting would be the only way to get the truth. I highly doubt that since I have learned a lot by reading the forums and through youtube videos.

Blizz is a business that makes decisions based on profit like any other profit generating business, which is all businesses.

The Heartstone punishment as quick and harsh due to the fact that the event happened in Asia instead of the US. If it was in the US first then it wouldn’t have been a bump in the road instead of a mountain. Much like the difference of stepping on a dollar bill in the states compared to stepping on Thailand money in Thailand.

Both reactions are not based on fear at all. They are based on culture, laws, traditions, customs, etc… instead of fear. Everything is not about fear you know. Those other things are just as important and in some cases more important than fear.

As far as your chief I was using your own words against you. If you cannot trust Blizz to tell the truth at all then you cannot trust your chief to be telling you the truth either. It is the idea of if you cannot trust one you cannot trust any of them.

If you chief can be honest with you then Blizz can be honest with us as well. If one lies all of the time then they all are lying all of the time.

According to you there wasn’t any changes to D3 in its entire history based on player feedback. I guess you think that Blizz made all of the changes without players asking for such changes huh. You better think again because there are things that were added as a direct result of feedback from us.

What good does it do explaining the differences of player to player trading that doesn’t have an AH and trading with it if all you see is your AH deity all of the time just in a different form. It will not be profitable for me to tell you the differences since you always see your deity there when that deity is in reality not present at all.

Their lack of talking about your deity along with not doing anything shows it. Along with them calling it a mistake as well. If they wanted to add it they would’ve asked us for feedback on how to solve the problems that it generates.

They would’ve done so long before your thread even existed.

You are so blinded by your deity that you don’t see the holes in your own idea.

Wah, wah, wah we got to have everything in the game given to us on a silver platter daddy dev. That is the attitude, just ask a lot of the top players how they would feel if they had to take longer to get the gear. I am sure that you would see there are a lot of players that wouldn’t mind the devs changing the fact that it rains legendaries. Oh wait they have already done that when D4 was announced. They asked a question that was asked by many players. Will D4 rain legendaries like D3.

Softcore is not gonna get your gear faster than HC. You still will gear up at about the same speed. The only difference between the two is that death is perma. You have to have way more survivability in HC than softcore.

No reason to leave a game because Hardcore players know softcore exist. Whereas AH means it is gonna be the fastest way to get your gear regardless of the mode that you play.

You just don’t understand the Black Market do you. There has to be enough money in selling items for real money to make it worth their effort to create a black market for the game in question.

Currently in D3 the only things that the black market has to offer are risky services that won’t make them nearly as much money as selling items for real money would.

I think that the only thing that would come close to proving me wrong would be if Blizz changes its current iteration of trade in D4.

Increasing monthly cost that goes beyond a season is not a good idea with a game that is in classic’s hands. They want to limit the cost to changing the seasonal theme making new sets once in a blue moon along with probably more balance changes. That is about it for those things. Still it would be cheaper to do that then having your deity added to the mix.

They hear us alright and they know what they don’t want to do and putting your deity back in this game is one of them.

Oh you really think that the players that returned had to buy a new account. Really, if that was the case then everyone that takes a vacation from the game would have to keep buying new accounts. That goes against a buy to play game that D3 is.

Again facts are not egoism, although be careful about how you use words like that it could come back to haunt you.

[ShadowAegis-1537]

@Meteorblade-2266

Why is the first one okay, but the second is abuse?

The dislike feature was abused. Where it was used because you didn’t agree with either the OP, some of the posters on the forums or the majority. It was being used as a way of saying either be our Yes Man/No Man or don’t post at all.

It was abused as a means to win an argument. There were those that said see how your posts are always down voted. Want to stop that then start agreeing with us. Blizz seen that and didn’t like it so they removed it. I ought to know because I got my fair share of that type of treatment.

[Meteorblade-2266]

@ShadowAegis-1537

I ought to know because I got my fair share of that type of treatment.

Or it could just have been that you posted things people disliked…

[ShadowAegis-1537]

@Meteorblade-2266

Or it could just have been that you posted things people disliked…

I have actually had people say see all of the dislikes you got. If you want them to change to likes agree with us. Now if that isn’t using the dislike button just to get agreements. Just to try to get me to be their Yes Man/No Man I don’t know what else I don’t know what else it is other than that.

Of course it wasn’t every dislike that I got. I have seen others get the same treatment as I did. Multiply that by more than just me and a few others that I saw. You probably had in the hundreds of players getting that treatment across all of the D3 forums. Add in the rest of the forums that I have either posted very little on like WoW or not at all, which is the rest of Blizz’s games and you could have in the thousands of players being treated that way. With it being abused enough to where Blizz decided to remove it.

[Breemen-1334]

I’d like a gold/commodity type auction house. Leave real money out of it.

[Kirottu-2131]

That’s the thing, it doesn’t matter what ingame currency or commodity it uses, the real money will still be the actual currency regardless.

[anon87654334]

@Aysrian-1127

Good to see you read all the posts though. As far as harder you mentioned HC.I do play a lot of Hc it is to easy.

ok. Suggest to remove softcore because even HC is simple for you.
You do not do this. Why? The same moment and with AH too.

@ShadowAegis-1537

No we cannot down vote anymore due to players abusing it just because they didn’t agree with the ones posting.

There is the possibility to like the posts of opponents of TS to provide the same effect.
You just have ghost hope that there are big amount of ones like you here. It is not so. Moreover, it is very pathetic way to try to stop someone which provides arguments against that you can’t provide strong enough counterarguments.
But I can provide to you the ideal solution for that to do not up at least this thread again and again - DO NOT WRITE HERE ANYTHING (do not create your posts here). This is the bigger choice that devs will never see this thread and will never read it. This is the only choice for you, AH-haters, still to have attention of devs for any your complaints on this forum (and complaints of ones that like you). Otherwise devs will see the evident fact - that they made the biggest mistake when they listened you (ones like you) and continue massively repeat such mistakes during 5+ years.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Those items are as common as dirt. No reason to be trading those items.

One moment: now trade in D4 is about this (only about this) and you said that it is ok, so I do not understand why you provide such arguments against AH, especially because I said already that it is the way to increase (slightly) the amount of usefull items amongst all these tons of garbage we collecting now in D3.

@ShadowAegis-1537

The really top ancients will not get traded at all, because players will be able to find them easily for the builds that they are playing.

You still ignoring such moments: duplicated top primals (softcore) and top primals for the builds which are not interesting for the player (this current player) at all (you saw example of such gear and such player above).

@ShadowAegis-1537

If no one is playing any build that uses a particular item then it won’t get traded at all.

You forgot about “portal of daring” (I do not know correct english wording of this mode). According to it “builds”, some players playing in the very strange way and you ignoring this fact fully.

@ShadowAegis-1537

That knocks out two sets of items with ease.

This happens exactly at the moment of introducing of ancients and primals. Though now all three sets (types of legs) are still usable - say, amulets and rings (depending on their stats and the rarity of needed combinations of stats). That’s why you using usual Hellfire amulet, nor even ancient one. And this situation can’t be changed significantly with the ideal version of AH from this thread. Players just obtained additional possibilities for adjusting their gear (with 100% guarantees to do this in comparison with imaginary hope in the case of random in this game), that’s all. AH can’t provide 100% guarantees for anyone to have anything for pennies. It is your big mistake to think so about it.

@ShadowAegis-1537

If you can trade a top notch or even some junk normal-ancient legendaries for top notch primals then that is what will happen in the black market.

Black Markets will appear by such factors (by only them):

1. there are rare items that can be traded for real money;
2. no possibility to do this officially (for full real price of such items);
3. there is the possibility for 1-by-1 interaction of players.

In my theory of ideal AH, at first, I removed the item 3. At second, I removed the item 2, but - due to opinion of fans that Blizz can have problems with RMAH due to laws - I suggested also additional limitation for withdraw of real money (only by buying products of Blizzard) which - theoretically - can lead to appearing of Black Markets, but it is initially impossible. Try to solve all problems with AH of classic by yourself and you will see the same set of solutions I already suggested.

@ShadowAegis-1537

What your deity will be programmed for all of the top pushing builds so you can only trade the same top notch gear for top notch gear. I highly doubt that would be possible.

I say simpler - it is impossible (with devs of D3), so it does not matter to suggest this at all. But I explained you already - you again made big mistake thinking that it will be possible to exchange really unequal items. Market Laws will not allow to do this. Or you can just remember AH of classic holding in mind the additional corrections for it I suggested and their influence on the situation on it.

@ShadowAegis-1537

AH Deity is not real life marketing nor can it equate to it because the AH is not designed as the same type of market as stocks. Besides if stocks went up and down solely on demand of them then there wouldn’t be any down turn of them at all. Because it would be based entirely on popularity not anything else. I highly doubt it is based entirely on popularity. There are no doubt other factors that affect the market than just popularity.

Yeah, you are right. The cost of anything is determined by its popularity (or - using language of Market - by the balance between supply and demand), that’s why I have no doubts or fear about prices (in gold) of anything on AH. Moreover, AH-haters forget usually one simple thing - it is Auction House (in the real life AH is used to buy anything once by choosing the better offer from suggested ones). It is not Shop (where one can buy anything for money or even pennies on Black Friday). It is not Stock Exchange (reselling of the same items multiple times to speculate on this for made their own profit). The AH in this theory is the most possible exact copy of this AH from real life. And the most complaints on AH by AH-haters and others are just due to the evident moment - they confound AH with other features they want or do not want (and devs provided initially ways or holes to use AH in such manner). This is the only problem with AH and AH-haters.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You really believe that legit real money trading has to be part of D4 as well as this game. That will be the thing that erases the Black Market.

Exactly, I suggest two ways on their choice: either to give ones the things they want officially or to close all holes for that they can’t do this unofficially (using Black Markets), because we had already such situation in the classic with known outcome. If they will choose the last variant, they will also loose ones that asked for AH.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Trading for real money without limits, oh boy is that a laugh. That will still have players using the Black Market anyway. More so because the Black Market will find a way of taking part of the legit real money trading. That is how the Black Market works.

Remember Black Markets of classic and remember how they worked. Or ask ones that can provide to you such information because you are again wrong in your suggestions. Situation is very simple always - BM are not appeared at all if there is the official way to do the same things because the last way is 100% safe while the first one is sooner not safe than safe (because there are grifters which do not provide real services at all). Ask players of PoE - they will tell you about “interesting features” of PoE-trade with its 1-by-1 interaction of players you so dreamed.

@ShadowAegis-1537

It is not about risking anyone’s account.

Exactly, about this. Moreover, it is about risking real money.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You don’t understand or don’t want to understand players feelings and appearances. To be honest you probably don’t care to.

I think that existence of optionality in this theory (and other my suggestions in my thread on this forum) is the best prove of the fact that you are wrong in such your suggestion in my side. In comparison with usual suggestions: either return or do not return AH for all under compulsion.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You keep changing your stance from moment to moment.

It is again your dreams or erroneous interpretation of my words. Provide proves of this, please.

@ShadowAegis-1537

I don’t need to ask top players because some of them make videos explaining things. That is unless you think that the only way to learn is to personally speak to them

It is just very funny that one who told very big amount of time about additional ways for finding friends (even trade) has so big problems in communication with other people while I - who provided arguments against using AH or trade to force other players for searching friends - do not have such problems at all. Very interesting moment.

@ShadowAegis-1537

If you cannot trust Blizz to tell the truth at all then you cannot trust your chief to be telling you the truth either. It is the idea of if you cannot trust one you cannot trust any of them.

That’s why I am providing not just my position, but argumentation and explanation of each moment according to it. Like I did in this thread. So that they can easily check all my arguments and tried to find the moments where I am wrong. I am waiting the same from them too, of course. But - from two of us - now only I providing arguments and explanations, but devs - not. So I am more (or only) right than they.

@ShadowAegis-1537

According to you there wasn’t any changes to D3 in its entire history based on player feedback. I guess you think that Blizz made all of the changes without players asking for such changes huh. You better think again because there are things that were added as a direct result of feedback from us.

I do not operate by the words “all” or “never” in such cases. I know about cases when devs provided some actions due to community (I wrote about such fact even in this thread) and I know about the huge amount of cases when they ignoring community during many years though this could about simple suggestions or even bugs that can’t be fixed by years.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Softcore is not gonna get your gear faster than HC. You still will gear up at about the same speed. The only difference between the two is that death is perma. You have to have way more survivability in HC than softcore.

I think that you forgot about loosing all gear of hero in the case of its permanent death. Or you just ignoring this moment fully.

@ShadowAegis-1537

No reason to leave a game because Hardcore players know softcore exist. Whereas AH means it is gonna be the fastest way to get your gear regardless of the mode that you play.

The reason are the same. Plus 2 more reasons just for difference between softcore and hardcore: no loosing of gear, no (so big) problems with disconnects on the first one mode.

@ShadowAegis-1537

They hear us alright

I also have such hope that they really hear fans and read threads on this forum.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Oh you really think that the players that returned had to buy a new account.

They already have it. They will just need to buy one more addon.

@ShadowAegis-1537

The dislike feature was abused.

Real truth. Thanks.

@Breemen-1334

I’d like a gold/commodity type auction house. Leave real money out of it.

To have the reason for appearing of Black Markets? And why? Because someone just want this (do not want trading for real money) without any explanations or argumentation? Really? Nope. Only after that you provided strong enough arguments for that to remove trading for real money. Especially because no P2W at all now, so I do not know any other arguments of ones who against trading for real money.

@Kirottu-2131

That’s the thing, it doesn’t matter what ingame currency or commodity it uses, the real money will still be the actual currency regardless.

Yep. If not Black Markets, then - bots (as now in RoS) or third party services for many features for players for their real money. One can easily find such services for RoS if this one will create simple search in google. I.e. full defeat of ones who do not want P2W. People find other ways if devs do not provide such feature officially. It is human nature.

[Orrion-1999]

Yeah… it’s you that has to “ghost hope” that there are people like you. AH is gone, the vast majority of players were and are happy with that, and it’s never coming back. That’s the reality, and anything else is wishful thinking. It doesn’t matter how you reinterpret it or how much you want it back, personally. It’s not happening.

[Kirottu-2131]

@anon87654334

It is human nature.

Which is why in D3 the devs did the cold solution to simply eliminate normal trading altogether, allowing items to be freely tradeable only between party members for 2 hours. At least there’s no real money involved in there anymore.

D4 will have ttrading but with heavy restrictions so that the impact of real money is smaller than if it were completely unrestricted.

Just something is inevitable is no excuse to defend it. Real money getting involved is and has always been the bane of trading in these types of games.

The AH is not coming back, period. Blizzard has made it very clear.

[ShadowAegis-1537]

@ wrace: Just because softcore exists doesn’t mean that your deity has to exist in D3 as well. You deity isn’t making a comeback in this game, get over it already.

Remember there is no way that people would’ve been able to read every post in every thread. So there is no way of knowing just how many other players were subjected to the same treatment I was. Let alone any other similar experiences the older D3 forums.

But it doesn’t stop there, no there are other forums. Sure that would be true if D3’s forums would be the only one that had the down vote feature removed. But all forums were given the same treatment. So that means that others received similar or the same treatment as I have over all of Blizz’s games.

Then add in other ways that the down vote feature could’ve been used for griefing outside of what I am saying. You no doubt even have had posts asking for its removal a long time ago for a variety of reasons.

It is just a fact that it was abused so it was removed. Besides there are other ways that a person can disagree with something that they read. It is called posting a reply if they have an account.

How do you know that the CM’s haven’t already read it. Since they know Blizz’s stance they won’t be taking it to the devs at all.

You really believe that if you and me along with others in this thread keep talking about your deity that Blizz will add it back. If that was the case then the PC version of this game would’ve had an offline mode added years ago. That is a subject that has been beaten like a dead horse on the older forums. If I had a dollar for every time it reared its head I would be richer than I am now.

D4’s trading is okay because the items are a lot different. They don’t make the builds, instead they only boost our combat power. They are not the full source of our power. That along is a big difference between the two games to start with.

Again I say that the way other players play D3 they will be getting the items that they need. Even really good items that will help them reach high-top tiered GRs. So your deity isn’t needed at all. That is because of the fact that it rains legendaries and sets. So those things won’t be needed for trading same item type for same item type.

Even set items won’t be needed for trading set item for set item. The way players can farm blood shards it won’t be all that hard to find the set you are looking for. That is true even if the starter set for the season isn’t the one that you are wanting. You can still farm for the pieces that you want with either the gift set or a legacy of dreams or legacy of nightmares set till you get the set that you want.

Even with that example your deity isn’t needed because those items will be found by the ones that would want them if they played long enough they will eventually find them. That is if those players are wanting those items.

How many players will be using Cluckeye on their DH. I don’t think there would be a lot of builds that will revolve around that weapon. Heck there are more that revolve around pig sticker than Cluckeye.

When I was talking about sets of items I was talking about the items that players will find with ease. Sure there will always be ones that will be hard to find due to the fact that you are always looking for better versions of the same pieces of gear. Take my CoE I am still looking for another ancient with closer to 200% damage buff on phys rotation.

I am using Hellfire Amulet because I wanted a fifth passive instead of having Flavor of Time. The guide on IcyVeins said that it is still a viable choice and I have seen a few barbs that are on the leader boards that use them that have cleared higher GRs than me so I know it is still a viable option.

The reason why I have decided not to try to go for an ancient version is because I have seen the barb on the top of the leader boards and he has a non ancient Band of Might. That means that you can have at least one non ancient piece on your character and still clear the higher tiered GRs.

You think that your deity won’t change anything. If true then there is no reason to add your deity. I think, though you know that there will be a change due to flooding the market with top tiered primals.

Either that or your deity has blinded your eyes by making you think that players would have to already have all slots primal for it to happen. No, that line is weak because it doesn’t take into account the power of a million or more players into view. Also add in the fact that you would have botters botting for that gear to put on the AH and trade for real money as well.

You think that Black Market trades only happen with the tools in the game. Where there is no outside agreements made.

Where only in the situations that you mentioned.

Tell me truthfully what in the world would stop a people from setting up this situation.

Black Market has a perfect CoE primal that a DH or Monk could use due to dex on the ring.

Player A visits their website and buys the ring from the site. Then sets up an agreement to put up item x for the CoE that will be put up on the AH for that exact item with the exact stats that Player A gave them. He goes and submits his item and gets the perfect CoE.

Now do you see where the hole for the Black Market is in your idea. This is what I am talking about. it is not like oh there is an AH and we cannot remove the money from the RMAH just use it to buy Blizz stuff so we won’t even think of RMT. No, they would get creative just like I said above.

Do you really believe that people will always perfectly adhere to Market Law. More so when you put the Black Market into the mix.

I still don’t think that you fully understand what causes stock prices to rise and fall. Thinking it is entirely based on popularity is wrong.

You cannot close the holes outside of the game, which is what the Black Market will use like the earlier mentioned example.

When your RMAH deity existed there were those that bought really high quality legendaries using the Black Market that got more than 250 dollars a pop.

Don’t need to risk accounts to prove who is right or who is wrong. You just have a bee in your bonnet that says you need to always be right and everyone else has to always be wrong without proof.

Oh, now we get into I am right because I say I am right huh, getting a big head an overinflated ego are we.

You have been flip-flopping on whether or not your deity can guarantee top notch primals appearing on it. If it can then we will see what I am saying happening due to flooding the market. If not then your deity isn’t needed. It would be a waste of time and money to make it happen.

I use different ways of learning about this game because that is what I have chosen to do. When I am playing I don’t want to be talking most of the time because it would cut into my play time. The game to me is not about being a glorified chat room. This is my decision, but still for others they can use it to chat away like magpies if they wish. It is a tool to use or not to use and I have chosen not to use it.

Further why do I need to ask questions when I find the answers myself on the forums, Reddit or youtube? I don’t need to ask when I already know the answer.

Look you know Blizz’s stance and they are not looking to add your deity back to this game, again get over it already.

The only thing that hardcore does is slow you down due to needed to take it easy by not climbing the GRs too fast. Making sure you have stronger defenses to handle the challenge of the next higher GR you want to do.

When your diety was removed players had to buy two things. The expansion and later the DLC. Get your facts straight.

[anon87654334]

@Orrion-1999

AH is gone, the vast majority of players were and are happy with that

Did you have any proofs of this? Nope.
Did you have any facts that suggest this? Nope.
(Facts like second big addon or absence of AH and trade in D4).
So it is just your dreams and wrong interpretation of reality.

@Orrion-1999

and it’s never coming back. That’s the reality, and anything else is wishful thinking. It doesn’t matter how you reinterpret it or how much you want it back, personally. It’s not happening.

Already happened. In D4. Trade. The worst copy of AH.

@Kirottu-2131

Which is why in D3 the devs did the cold solution to simply eliminate normal trading altogether, allowing items to be freely tradeable only between party members for 2 hours. At least there’s no real money involved in there anymore.

Really? There are botters (bots cost money, new accounts cost money) and resources that provide services for real money. Open your eyes.

@Kirottu-2131

D4 will have ttrading but with heavy restrictions so that the impact of real money is smaller than if it were completely unrestricted.

If they will make mistake (and they will do this again), very rare items that can be solded for real money will be appeared, also as Black Markets for real money, and then your trade in D4 will be removed as AH in classic was removed.

@Kirottu-2131

The AH is not coming back, period. Blizzard has made it very clear.

Nope. They did not provide such their opinion officially.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Just because softcore exists doesn’t mean that your deity has to exist in D3 as well. You deity isn’t making a comeback in this game, get over it already.

It already returned. In D4. As trade.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Remember there is no way that people would’ve been able to read every post in every thread. So there is no way of knowing just how many other players were subjected to the same treatment I was. Let alone any other similar experiences the older D3 forums.

It does not matter at all. Only arguments in defense of your position are important. And I did not see yet strong enough arguments against AH neither from AH-haters nor from devs or blue ones. So number of ones who can’t argue their position (and like posts of their supporters’) does not matter at all.

@ShadowAegis-1537

asking for its removal a long time ago for a variety of reasons.

They can’t provide this variety of reasons now. What is the problem?

@ShadowAegis-1537

How do you know that the CM’s haven’t already read it. Since they know Blizz’s stance they won’t be taking it to the devs at all.

Yeah. They just like AH-haters. Can’t argue their position and have ghost belief in the infallibility of devs. Initially bad situation.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You really believe that if you and me along with others in this thread keep talking about your deity that Blizz will add it back.

The main feature is not in talking. The main feature is in absence of strong enough arguments of AH-haters against this ideal version of AH. Also as in the fact that they either even do not try to read anything or can’t explain the simple seven items of this theory at all. That’s important because it is very unexpected result in comparison with any threads about AH (with just positions without any explanations). And your devs have also only position. They can’t provide explanation because they - as AH-haters - do not understand by themself what is really wrong with AH. And I provided for them this explanation just because I can do this (without any problems).

@ShadowAegis-1537

If that was the case then the PC version of this game would’ve had an offline mode added years ago. That is a subject that has been beaten like a dead horse on the older forums. If I had a dollar for every time it reared its head I would be richer than I am now.

Go to the last thread with such theme and view it. You will see the situation like in this thread - many arguments and suggestions from ones who want offline mode and the lack of them from fanboys of Blizz which also provided just the knowledge about such position of devs without knowledge about their argumentation of this position (because devs did not provide such argumentation at all). And I said you already - fans provided their position (they want AH or offline mode) with their arguments and solutions, Blizz provided just their position (“nope”). If fans do not obtain the things they need and do not obtain even explanation why they do not obtain such things, they will not buy D4. That’s all. Who is right? Blizz? If it so iff they will obtain the desired number of sells of copies of new game. If they will not obtain them, current devs will be fired and replaced by new ones. And - perhaps - fans will obtain the things they wanted initially. Or not. In such case the situation will be like in D3 now and players will wait D5 with the low activity of devs for D4.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Again I say that the way other players play D3 they will be getting the items that they need. Even really good items that will help them reach high-top tiered GRs. So your deity isn’t needed at all. That is because of the fact that it rains legendaries and sets. So those things won’t be needed for trading same item type for same item type.

Do not like / need - do not use (AH). No problems.

@ShadowAegis-1537

How many players will be using Cluckeye on their DH. I don’t think there would be a lot of builds that will revolve around that weapon. Heck there are more that revolve around pig sticker than Cluckeye.

It is the one more reason of the tons of garbage (in addition to 3 type of legs). Devs must solve this moment, not I. At least, not in this thread.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Take my CoE I am still looking for another ancient with closer to 200% damage buff on phys rotation.

Now remember about random and “gambler’s fallacy” - you can never obtain the item you desired (I mean - in the reasonable amount of time; on infinity you will obtain it; of course, if there are no bugs with random in the game, which there are).

@ShadowAegis-1537

You think that your deity won’t change anything. If true then there is no reason to add your deity.

It does not change anything for AH-haters. Especially because they can play without AH. AH-likers will obtain the tool they want and this change is significant for them.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Either that or your deity has blinded your eyes by making you think that players would have to already have all slots primal for it to happen.

It is your “gambler’s fallacy” again. I already said about true aim of AH.

@ShadowAegis-1537

No, that line is weak because it doesn’t take into account the power of a million or more players into view.

I remember the experience of classic, I see the current situation, so I take into account very big amount of features. Moreover, I suggest to ones like you (to all) just to test the moments they beware (for example, by testing AH in season), but AH-haters invent other contrived reasons to do not do this because they must to defend position of devs by any possible ways.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Tell me truthfully what in the world would stop a people from setting up this situation.

The absence of possibility to obtain anything using 1-by-1 intersection of players. You forgot about the moment that all items (legs and so one) are bounded to the account. So it is impossible to transfer anything from one player to another. That’s why your Black Markets and your imagination of using them are initially faaar away from reality. Oops. Did you miss this moment in the first post of this thread in the description of seven items? Yeah, of course. You missed many things you can’t understand which you do not take into consideration with your minds in your dreamworld. Like other (all) AH-haters. That’s main problem with you.

@ShadowAegis-1537

I still don’t think that you fully understand what causes stock prices to rise and fall.

Market Law. Balance between supply and demand. Very simple.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You cannot close the holes outside of the game, which is what the Black Market will use like the earlier mentioned example.

Really? Repeat this again with the knowledge I provided for you above. You are wrong. And you initially was wrong. As other AH-haters. I said you already - the most of arguments of AH-haters I already knew before creating this thread here (because at first I created such thread on my native sub-forum of D3 and listen all arguments of AH-haters + removed all bad features and holes already many years ago).

@ShadowAegis-1537

When your RMAH deity existed there were those that bought really high quality legendaries using the Black Market that got more than 250 dollars a pop.

I said already: NO limitations of original AH of classic on price at all.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Don’t need to risk accounts to prove who is right or who is wrong. You just have a bee in your bonnet that says you need to always be right and everyone else has to always be wrong without proof.

Intereesting logic: I can risk my account to prove my position (while you - can’t) but you still say that I think that I am always right (if I think so really hence I have no risks at all and your logic is failed at all).

@ShadowAegis-1537

Further why do I need to ask questions when I find the answers myself on the forums, Reddit or youtube? I don’t need to ask when I already know the answer.

You do not provide your knowledge sometimes.
In such cases I gave you advice to ask about such things top players.

@ShadowAegis-1537

When your diety was removed players had to buy two things. The expansion and later the DLC. Get your facts straight.

Really? And where is the second big expansion? If Blizz made much more money (due to your logic) than they did in classic (by the version of AH-haters). And where is the great support of the game with introducing of many cool features? Nope? Why? Wow, you do not know. Of course. Very funny.

[ShadowAegis-1537]

@wrace: Players that actually came back to this game. They said so in the older forums. Plus there were a lot of players that hated your deity, more so for the RMAH portion of your deity.

I would say that those that hated your deity would be glad that it is gone for good.

Again trading in D4 is not your deity, although you don’t look at it that way.

Bot makers were making money long before the AH was gone and will continue to do so. Besides bot makers and botters have nothing to do with trading since your deity no longer exists in D3.

D3 doesn’t cost nearly as much as it did when the game launched. So botters can easily get a new account and get right back to botting again.

The only thing that the Black Market has left are risky services and that is not gonna make nearly the amount of money that selling items would.

I doubt that they would cave into the demands of those that want either free and unrestricted trade or at the very least cave into the demands to make the best items bind on trade. As long as the best items are still bind on account you won’t have the problem with Black Market like you would with free and unrestricted trading.

You just don’t want to accept what I have shown you. Much like others that won’t accept the fact that D4 will be online only. Even though it was stated at Blizzcon that there will not be an offline mode for D4.

Yes I am aware that any game that supports trading has your deity, even though it doesn’t have it at all. To you even D2 has your deity because it supports player to player trading.

Look if you don’t want to accept what you have been told by others concerning your deity then fine. Go ahead and keep being in denial of the facts.

Plus the abuse of the feature was real and that is why down voting was removed. Same as what happens in real life when people prove that they cannot be trusted with important matters. More laws are made in order to protect the innocent victims. But by the same token those laws do cause inconveniences with the ones that they want to protect. So the same happens in games and the forums.

If players didn’t abuse the feature throughout all of Blizz’s titles then that feature wouldn’t have been removed.

You know why your deity was removed from D3. If you have forgotten why then look it up.

Oh your really believe that your deity must return to D3 because it corrects the mistake of its removal. That won’t happen because it wasn’t a mistake to remove your deity. That was the best thing that they could do for D3. The most we will ever see of your deity would be the gifting system of consoles as they mentioned years ago at a Blizzcon.

You have been told why it won’t work along with the holes your deity has. But you will not accept what you have been told. Still in denial are we.

You haven’t solved all of the problems and I have told you that the majority here don’t want to play the trading game again no matter what form it takes.

I have been trying to tell you that just because something has been talked to death about like beating a dead horse doesn’t mean that what is being asked for will happen. If it was then offline mode would be for D3’s PC version along with a lot of other things that have been talked a lot about which would probably ruin the game in the process.

We already know Blizz’s position on both offline mode and trading in this game. Just because you don’t want to accept it due to it not tickling your ears doesn’t mean that they haven’t give one.

You really think that your deity has that kind of power where it has to be there in order for the game to sell any copies. Sorry but it isn’t in D4 and won’t be there.

I have told you before hand that legendaries rain from the sky at a rate that even some top notched ancients wont appear in your deity if it was in this game again. Due to them being so easy to find.

Even farming starter setups for a variety of builds isn’t that hard either. So that is another portion of items that won’t appear in your deity. The only thing left is top notch primals.

I guess you don’t understand pseudo random like I do, although I do remember showing a link to a video that explained it. There are no bugs in the pseudo randomness of drops in this game. If there were then it would be fixed.

Those that hate your deity will feel forced to use it in order to get the same pieces of gear that others on the leader boards have.

Again I say that it doesn’t need to be tested because you don’t understand the power of the drops of a million plus players playing D3. Nor do you want to because you deity has blinded your eyes to see what I am saying is quite true.

Oh so the Black Market wouldn’t dare think of setting up situation where they could sell items for real money like I mentioned. They would keep things all within the confines of the game. I think you don’t know how the Black Market works. You are still in denial which is amazing.

Popularity isn’t the only thing affecting supply and demand. Did the fact that markets have went up and down like a yo-yo due to the trade war with China not mean anything to you. Oops there went your idea of popularity right out the window. Maybe you better go back to school and learn how the stock market really works, and I am not an expert on the subject.

You can stay in your fantasy land where you AH deity idea is perfect without holes, while the rest of us stays in reality. I know full well the Black Market would take full advantage of your deity even though you don’t believe it to be true.

Just because there would be no limits on the RMAH doesn’t mean that the Black Market won’t get involved. They will get involved and will make a fortune off of your deity.

Don’t need to risk anyone’s account, again I repeat anyone’s account regardless of whether or not either side is willing to do so. Just because you have that bee in your bonnet that you must always be right is why one of the reasons why you are suggesting such a thing. Trying to play a sleight of hand Tu Quoque fallacy concerning putting accounts at risk.

If I cannot take the answers given to me when I find them either on the forums, Reddit or youtube then what good will it do to personally ask the players in game. They would no doubt tell me to look those things up if asked in game. If asked on the forums they would say why didn’t you bother to look it up.

The only time I ask other players is if I cannot find what I am looking for, which is getting rarer and rarer each and every season.

Look bind on account of items along with gold happened long before your deity was removed. And your deity was disabled or removed a week before RoS launched. So if players left because of your deity’s presence means that they left before purchasing RoS. Then they returned after learning about your deity’s removal would mean that they would have to purchase the expansion if they wanted access to the new class along with the other features.