Tell me about it.
I discuss that at the bottom of the OP here: A Barb Response to the Lamentation Nerf
I did not enter this thread doubting his intentions. I just got frustrated along the way. I still do not think he tries to mislead anyone.
I just disagreee with his testing method, which is why I asked him to show a Rift Guardian fight.
I think the mechanics of rend bloodbath just make assessing rifts extremely difficult, which is why I mentioned a few times how insane the mob type for 140 was: Grotesques, Zombies and mothers all generate extra mobs in some way (though Zombies not reliably), thus giving more damage through bloodbath and higher Rampage uptime
As for the nerf to Lamentation changing the entire playstyle:
Unless I am missing something truly major on d3planner WW damage should be completely irrelevant and not really influence the overall feel of the build (it should literally be < 5%, even after acounting for dust devils)
That doesn’t make sense though.
Why are you changing anything?
Rend damage lost a 3x multiplier. Play it exactly the same. Rend damage should only do about ~7 GR less damage if you change nothing else. This assumes mob type and density of course.
It’s not like you’re adding Area Damage back or Skull Grasp back obviously. So why are they two different builds?
You’d still use IB/Bloodbath and focus on Rend damage.
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I don’t know.
I’m confused to say the least.
Math is math. I’ve always said that.
There’s no reason it should be more than 8 GRs unless you’re changing other factors. Which begs the question, why are you changing those other factors?
I mean maybe you don’t kill as fast, so you go for a tankier build. Maybe that also adds more damage loss…
I dunno. I just don’t agree with the “it’s two different builds” just because Lamentation lost its multiplier.
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Add me on btag, jay#1401. Not going to discuss it here. I’ll be on tomorrow night at around 9 Eastern hopefully.
I did say it was going to be more like 9-10 tiers but got ignored because I’m not a barb main and everyone just focused on Rend damage maths which is fair play.
But when you shift powers like that on a separate multiplier that’s no longer there things are going to be more effected than the minimum, that’s why if you at least had 100% it would likely be the maximum of 5 GR’s difference. Oh well carry on.
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It should be the opposite.
Builds should be less affected than the maximum. If one part of something gets reduced by x% then the total will be reduced by less than x%.
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Ya. That’s a good point.
If Rend does 99% of the damage and you reduce Rend by 2/3, you’re only reducing 99% by 2/3, not the full 100%.
Something ain’t adding up.
If y’all are experiencing 10-12 GR drops something else got changed besides just Lamentation’s 200%.
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While I disagree with the barbarian…temper tantrum…of the last two weeks, no question the nerf was too much. The fact Crusaders are soloing 150s now makes a mockery of it all. Nerf them, and revert the Lamentation nerf before the season goes live.
D3 has zero credibility right now. It’s a joke. D3 credibility is normally in the toilet, and it’s even lower than usual.
If Barbarian end up as the master class for one season, I'll live with it.Sorry to seem cynical or like a troll. Maybe I’m too dumb or this is too complicated, so I need some nice person to clarify things for me, it would be very much appreciated.
- Why do people care about balance in Diablo 3, especially in the year 2019.
I mean, the game is pretty much dead. The vast majority of what would be the Diablo player base are playing other games.
The competition in this game is a joke. Perpetual Paragon (you can have more than 10K), random Greater Rifts. Why does this even matter to you guys?
- I haven’t played a Barb for years, but isn’t Whirlwind meant to be the AoE good for T16 kind of a build similar to DH Multishot (with either Marauder or Unhallowed Essence)?
I don’t see DHs clearing 140 with Multishot, so why are Barbs complaining, that they can’t clear 140 with Whirlwind?
Again, I’m really not trying to troll. Clearly I’m missing something. Please, explain.
I don’t remember reading Blizzard’s official list of what builds we’re allowed to play which roles in the game. Please share.
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There you go here too. This is the fan boiz of steamers. Not us (“the elitist barbs”), as we are ROFL
Unfortunately the above image may be applicable to the people planning and implementing these updates as well. State of D3…
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Focus on the topic if you’re not a troll.
The game is dead or not has nothing to do with the topic, and by saying that you are pretty much claiming your debates are meaningless. Why bother posting then?
I was asking the same question but no barb bothered to answer me. All claims seem to be from experience.
This may be an effective strategy if their purpose is to get barb buffed and don’t care about power creep. Crusader clearing tier 150 GR has told us devs doesn’t know or doesn’t do math before releasing anything.
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Your only thinking about the math from loosing lamentation buff. There is still Rend damage in the build now that makes other stats required in the build.
WW damage uses area and attack speed in high trash count pulls
Rend damage uses damage%/cooldown in crimson build.
The damage sources need opposite stats with only a few possible spots to fill.
so there is no way to optimize the build properly. No matter how you roll your stats it will hurt you some way. In the PTR version on wwrend we could lode up on dmage%/cooldown and go one shot everything 110+ and even trash in 115s where getting one shot when my COE cycle rolled thru. Now Im losing my rampage stacks even in my 105 speeds. When I cleared 118 on the first live day my rampage stacks were almost nonexistent. Because there is no area damage trash kills suffer bad and create a nerf directly to rampage passive. You add all this together add it is -7 plus an unknown number. I would say that wwrend is weaker then a core zodiac build at the very top end if say Wroboss decided to come back and really push like old times.
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I have roughly 3200 paragon and I barely scraped a GR110. I might be able to get a couple more out of it, but not much more than that. I managed a GR123 with 40 paragon less on the PTR (non-seasonal) using the same hero / gear. Prior to the patch I was at around GR105 on live. So, on live I’ve gotten a +5 GR buff due to the changes, but it’s still a -13 GR nerf compared to the PTR.
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Not to question your findings, but how can the PTR perform better? Is the patch not identical to the PTR at this state?
Nah you don’t know bro. You should be plowing +140s right now EZ.
See some streams to get some build ideas
Note: Pun intended with sarcasm
lol
@ JEB90
I don’t think you understand what I’m trying to say here. Please, allow me to explain.
Say we’re talking about DH. If Multishot (AoE spec) can clear as high as Shadow (spec about hunting elites and high single target on a boss), then what would be the point of having a spec about high single target dmg? Zero. Everyone would go with the AoE spec.
I would assume the same thign applies to Barbarian. A single look on the ladder shows specs with Hammer of the Ancients (and some with Seismic Slam). If Whirlwind can clear 140 solo with his AoE spec, what would be the point in someone specing for more of a Single Target skill like Hammer? Zero!
So, if the issue was, that the Barb class was behind and other classes could clear 140+ while Barb could not, the way I would solve it would be to buff more single target specs (like Hammer) rather than the WW which is AoE.
Would you say, that it is reasonable for me to ask for Multishot (regardless of whether it’s Marauder or Unhallowed Essence) to be able to clear 140, when it is pretty much considered a fast cleart build for t16, but not an endgame build?
Because, if the answer is yes, by all means, Blizz should make it, so that a Barb can 140 with WW and DH can 140 with Multishot Marauder/Unhallowed Essence.
@FX9
I was not debating yet. I was trying to establish the overall logic and thought process, so that I understand what the issue is.
Yes, I would legitimately like to know why people care about balance in D3 nowadays, considering, that the game is pretty much dead.
The competition is a joke, and the few remaining players are basically big fishes in a small tank, that would probably never be able to compete if the game appealed to actual Diablo players.
Also, I explained to the poster above my issue with the entire logic in this thread. If we were to take the D3 skill system into account, if the WW AoE spec was to be buffed so that it can clear 140, what would be the point of single target skills such as Hammer? There would be no point.
Same for DH. Might as well delete the Shadow set and the impale skill from the game and make it, so that Marauder or Unhallowed Essence can clear 140 with Multishot.
If anything, I am engaging with the thread more seriously than many other users, who conveniently forget to mention, that they want an AoE spec to be the best.
Same results for me. I did 125 first try in PTR on bad maps and no power in 13 minutes. I figure I could do at least 128+. My gem were 140/140/137 on PTR.
Now I did 118 in 14:30 with decent maps and my gems are 145/144/142.
The nerf is at least 10 lvls considering I have more paragon/more augs/more main gem lvls.