There would need to be enough depth for the options to be viable. Otherwise they won’t be options at all. Any complexity to them will be viewed as a cover-up for how shallow they are.
i personally lose interest, when i know everything, i am supposed to do in a game
so the more it has to offer and the longer it takes me to understand and explore everything, the longer i can enjoy the game
dont mistake this with PoE, thats just kinda…too much at the same time, thrown at your face
but thats not at all, what D4 is heading too
its just giving it more replayability
i dont know about you, you might wanna get through it and move on to play some fortnite
but i want to spend some time in this game
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Why should one of the best games in gaming history (Diablo 2) and its soon to be (not D3) successor have to be watered down for people like you when there are already games made for people short on time (hearthstone, CoD, Overwatch and other AAA games). People like you are trying to turn this game into something it shouldn’t be, just to fit your own personal life schedule. I find that absurdly entitled especially when there are so many other games for you to play that real fans of this series from the game that made this series popular (D2) are being told they can’t have a true successor to it because it won’t fit your personal week schedule. Let a game be the game that it is part of the genre it is in and stop trying to turn it into candy crush.
Why is your opinion to water down the game to fit your life schedule more important than other peoples?
Not only that, Blizzard ALREADY went the route you asked for with D3 and it’s a complete flop that rode on the coat tails of Diablo 2. This type of genre is not meant for 15 minute increments of play time. Stop trying to turn games into games they’re not supposed to be.
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I’m fine with:
- Comparing D2 and D3 and realizing what was better in D2 and ask for it. There’s a chance that only the better features from D2 would be suggested this way
- Playing D2 and give up at some point realizing the core problems/issues of D3. This is LEGIT feedback because it gives the EXACT information where and why things got screwed and mistake prevention (as long as deeply/non-biased anlyzed in the deep)
- Trying/suggesting new game mechanics that might enrich the D4 playing experience. Though somewhat “risky”, should be for the better cause the intention is bring a new game, not “another contender copy” of games that already exist
I’m NOT fine with
- Ask for D2 repeat exclusive (no matter how “small” a mechanic was). This means simply from day 1 unable to recognize important things from less important therefore not ready for cooperation and/or recognizing compromises
- D2/PoE did things this way and this way only is the right way. IMO that is based on true and real but also “framed” experience. Not open to expansion of viewpoint/s and/or thinking outside of the box is not a good way to give feedback (even arguably when the source is relevant) I think
So to be frank, yes, there’s a ton of “weird” feedback but the intention is usually right. Though there are some “bad ways” to give feedback think it’s easy to “categorize” them into one of the 5 above categories I mentioned therefore knowing whether/if it’s good or bad advice/viewpoint
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Subject line is too long, Learn to forums.
Depth is a great thing to strive for.
Yeah, sure you can end up adding complexity for the sake of complexity. But I’d rather reach a bit too far into that territory, than having too little depth.
But I do agree that streamers etc. are often not good at giving feedback. They have the same right to do it as everyone else, but it is a shame if they are seen as speaking for others. They clearly have their own biases.
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Then the game isn’t for you. Go play tetris.
These game succeed because of deep character development. It is the only reason PoE even has a following. The game play isn’t smooth. The Graphics are not fantastic and the story is weak but then there is the skill tree.
The massive overwhelming skill tree. It provides the hope of building many many varieties of character. It takes several games to experiment and even though it doesn’t fully deliver on what looks like infinite character diversity and the ability to build your distinct character, it does look like it is trying.
Diablo3 suffers from what you are advocating. Would the D&D franchise have launched with 2 stats ? Damage and Defense, hell No. That is what Blizzard doesn’t understand. PvP is not important speed is not important. I can’t stress that enough Speed is NOT important!! Having the concept of timed events is a mistake. Simplifying a game so that players have an opportunity to fight each other is also a mistake.
Could you launch a blockbuster PvP game called paladins and wizards? It would be a free to play failure at launch. Swords to 14 dps , fireballs do 14 dps wheeee.
The most important thing to do is to provide the players with the ability to experiment and build diverse characters, its a character building game.
If a player wants to build a Ultra tanky character who wins by endurance and slowly killing opposition let them. If they want a glass cannon great. The game would be awesome if you could multi class 25 levels of monk and 45 levels of wizard created a dexterity int class who has primary damage through spells but also has some group buffs and uses evasion. That is how you create the Wave of light spell nuking monk and similar variations. Elemental damage might come from wizard trees. Evasion and buffs might be monk. Combining wizard and fighter might create more of the Death Knight and Monk Fighter more of a Paladin flavor. Diversity is the key not simplicity.
The game company that creates a game for character builders with a good story creates a franchise.
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Rhykker has resntly said he plays only a small amount of D3 I’d have to go back to confirm it but it was about 2-3 hours a week.
I like the rest of your post but not this part.
But I come form the stick to a class group, after sometime I may make a Jack of all Trades character, but not Multi Class.
Having said that if the devs put it in others may do just that, I don’t wish to stop them.
Just sounds like a lot of extra work and balancing issues, for an as yet unreleased game.
I don’t know what the YouTubers and Twitch streamers are saying. Admittedly, I also could not possibly care less what they’re saying.
With that out of the way the thing I liked about the Diablo 1 and 2 design with its depth is that it was a game that could be played both ways.
They’re not hard games. In fact, they’re rather easy games and if you just want to chill for a few hours and kill demons you absolutely can do that. If you just want a bit of mindless fun, the game has what you want and the few mechanics.
but if you were somebody who did want to really dig into the mechanics and figure things out, there was a lot of depth there for you to do it.
Many of the best games follow the old saying: Easy to play, hard to master and that’s what Diablo 1 and 2 did. Diablo 3 on the other hand, has very little substance to it.
At the end of the day video games need to be fun but fun and mechanical depth are not mutually exclusive ideas. This isn’t a binary system where the only two options are 100% mindless or everything must be super complex.
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i invented that reaction, patented lol.
who’s problem ?
it’s a counter opinion posted on a forum.
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you seem to have invented a lot of things in here
Edited for Language by the Moderation Team.
https://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct
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Just wait for Diablo Immortal. That’s will be the perfect brainless Diablo that you want (or keep playing D3). Dev will think about some builds and force you to play them.
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This is fairly silly bordering on comical. Personally I have very limited time for playing games but I do still play them regularly. Depth is actually great for this. I can’t always( or usually ) play enough hours to keep up with peoples progression through hours played but I do enjoy really thinking and planning out a build and sometimes people can bridge the gap with more serious players who play a ton by actually being good at the mechanics and understanding the game. If you want a game that’s not complex and you don’t need to understand well…
This guy said it! don’t even worry about d4 fire up Immortal on your phone there shouldn’t be much depth.
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OP, the thing is that D2 actually wasn’t a hard game to play and get into. Most people I knew played without using build guides and were able to play through all difficulties. There was depth of you wanted it, but D2 could be played casually like you prefer and still a great experience. D4 will likely go down that road. D2 was easy to learn and difficult to master. There are some quirks, like runeword recipes should have been in the game menus but every game has its flaws. Most d3 players use build guides like icy veins, even though the game has little to no depth
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The problem with D3 over D2…I can lvl/gear a toon in a couple hours then it’s just a paragon/gr grind. In d2 you actually had to lvl to use gear instead of hitting 70 in 15 minutes and throw on legendaries. That’s one of the hardest parts to playing d3, a few hours in and there is nothing left to discover but pushing a high gr. Harder to sustain interest in playing over a longer period of time.
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World of Warcraft Classic. It has made Blizz more $$$ than anything released in the last 10 years. A 15 year old version of an ongoing game.
So, can you apply this to Diablo franchise?
Classic WoW isn’t exactly hard (classic was easier than the RPGs that predated it ) but it requires more investment than modern. Some complain about D2 zealots ruining the game, but if Blizz looks to the past, looks at what worked and why -maybe they can make something that’s compelling without being a complete retread.
Don’t forget that to make Blizz more money than anything before, Classic had to bring back both old and new players.
Because people like us are the majority, and it is OUR money Blizzard is after. If they want D4 to be a multi-million sale they better cater it to the mass of people who are supposed to buy it and not to handful of D2 nerds.
Go play poe.
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It all comes down to target audience.
Pandering to addicts is pretty much an issue across gaming at large. From whales in mobile games, to those too deep in sunken cost fallacy to consider outside perspective, crapping on everyone that doesn’t share the same image for some niche game isn’t the way to go.
Streaming/Streamers are also a grossly overvalued form of advertising. Sure, the fans may think their reach is far and wide, but I have no doubt if you rattled those names past all players, you’d get some variation of, “Who?” as a reply from a good bit of them. I get it, though, it can be nice to feel like you’re with people who feel similarly. Yet like politics, it can become incredibly echo chamber when people who don’t feel similarly are chased off and/or demonized.
In the end, the most common stance I tend to take regarding design principles is to not forget the casual player, don’t assume they’re (genre) experts, don’t assume they’re all idiots, and don’t think that harshly punishing mistakes magically enhances a learning experience. You don’t create new fans by trying to push them away the moment they engage.
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