Every time they say, “depth,” I hear, “needless complexity.”
People whose lives revolve around video games (YouTubers like Bluddshed, Rhykker, Raxxanterax, etc) seem to have completely lost perspective of what most video game players actually want and, perhaps most significantly, have the time for.
Very few people have the time or desire to devote 6-10 hours per day to playing games. When making a game that will satisfy the very vocal minority of players who do have that kind of time and desire, Blizzard runs the risk of alienating the significantly less vocal, but far more numerous players who just want to be able to sit down and have a good grasp of a game within a couple of hours and a fairly thorough understanding of it within maybe 10-12 hours. For someone like Rhykker, Bluddshed, Wolfcryer, etc, that’s about a day. For most people, however, that’s probably a week’s worth of game time, if not more. If I put a week into a game and still don’t have a fairly deep understanding of the game mechanics, goals, skills, etc, I am no longer interested because it is needlessly complex and I can’t have fun playing a game I always feel like I’m new to and never feel like I’m decent at playing.
The more I hear about the direction these supposed ambassadors of the gaming community to the game developers are pushing D4 toward (meaning open world, multiplayer being required for some content, complex skill trees, extremely rare drops of good gear, inability to easily re-spec. etc), the less I look forward to it. At this point, I don’t even want it to drop because I know it will be something I will hate.
05/19/20 EDIT: Wow. “Not a real Diablo game” “What a Diablo game should be” “not a true gamer” The gatekeeping here is astounding.
They mentioned it multiple times as “easy to play hard to master” and that is the best thing they could do, being able to pick the game and progress without much experience but still learning more and more each time you play.
I’m also against complexity for complexity but the game having depth isn’t a bad thing, believe me I don’t have much time to play per day (a lot of days this time is zero) but I enjoy a long playthrough of RPGs where I’m constantly improving.
My issue with D3 is that I don’t see the depth in it, in a new season it takes a few hours to level to 70 unlocking everything (skills) and the game even gives you a set that dictates how you should play, it feels really bad.
Agree with OP.
I don’t like D2 for how a lot of game content could only be found in guides and walkthroughs on the internet as opposed to in game. It was also anti intuitive with regard to stats (check sorc build guides… they very rarely mention energy, the one stat a sorc “should” excel at).
My problem with D3 is they could have allowed a lot more challenge that made us use everything that was given, but they didn’t, which undermines the game.
Yep, my hype for D4 has pretty much died too.
Though it’s not so much the streamers (at least not the ones you mentioned), but more the D2 zealots here on the forum. The “community feedback” is getting dumber day by day, and Development appears to be listening (removal of ancients etc).
You nailed that one. Some of the feedback is coming from goofballs. No telling what D4 will look like at launch, if some of these know-it-all’s have it their way.
They are trying to turn D4 into a continued revenue stream. The streamers need the game to be longer/more serious so they can actually build a base for people to watch them stream for them to make money. The more they stream and play, the more money blizzard makes.(Means a larger fan base) Anyone who is a fan of D3 probably should be afraid.
I understand the frustration with complexity in a game (POE being the biggest example), but there is a point of balance that needs to be struck. With Diablo 3 giving you everything you wanted at level 70 and nothing meaning anything before that, you create zero identity with the avatar you are playing. This is why it is important to create some kind of choice and pre max level development. If you are all about the end of the game why not start everyone at 70 with every skill and Item you want? Obviously people who play all the time will be better or have better items, but why does that effect your gameplay? If they can create a game where you get to develop an avatar as you go, instead of everything has to be end game, why is that bad? Just make it so that I can’t totally break my character and make the game unplayable. I want to play a game where I can develop an avatar and not feel like mine is the same as everyone else because no one has to make a choice. What is the point of character progression in Diablo 3? Shinnies at the end of the rainbow and no memorable moments in between.
I like D1, D2, D3, I just want D4 to be even better. Give me the tools so I can create my own build (no more of the meta BS), give me a killer story/lore, give me options so I keep coming back (or never leave). Let me play the way I want to play not they way others think I should do it.
I mean, wouldn’t a more “complex” game give you more options? Assuming they don’t mess up the balance? The story/lore is just story/lore.
PoE for example, is probably over the top in some ways, and I haven’t even reached end game on it, but the amount of sheer info in that game is astounding.
Won’t work.
There was a time in D3 when I stopped watching build guides altogether - what use are they when you can’t obtain the required items? This changed only when they fixed drops and introduced seasons and all.
And I rather play myself than watch a stream, thank you.
I like my barb girl very much who fought her way through so many adventures with me since vanilla launch. Not in the same gear and with the same skills of course - that would be boring.
And her sisters too. So what’s your point again?
They need to find the middle ground, if it is easy the core base will just leave, if it is hard the new kids will give up. Which has nothing to do with difficulty levels. They need the money so the new kids will be a major part of the market, the old timers are becoming a smaller segment as time moves on. Remember all of us were new at one point. The difference is, back in the day we had to figure things out on our own. Now, the new players just jump on youtube. Blizzard is in a bad spot right now. If it takes years to release D4 it will become more difficult for Blizzard to keep up with all the other games.
I don’t get why taking the time to create a game that will take a long time to finish or master is a bad thing? Streaming will be a thing regardless of what blizzard does. I would much rather pay for something that will take me a long time to master. Diablo 3 has plenty of streamers and takes about 15 to 20 hours to reach guardian each season.
Because at any point I can make an exact copy of anyone else I see (Look at the ladder boards). Instead of creating my avatar, blizzard made it for me and I can just choose how to use it. And realistically… How many people take the time to level their players in Diablo 3? There is no point to it… You just get it all in the end anyways…
This is the problem with D3 people just want to copy what someone has done. In D4 I do not want to think about what others are doing (I should not care), because the builds should have a lot of options. Not just the same old builds that everyone uses. Give us more options in D4. I do not want to look like all of the other Druids on the map. My Druid should be original because I created him/her. I hope the runes and skill tree will help with this.
I don’t watch streams much either, but it’s a good indicator of a games playerbase. That’s also part of why trading is coming back in some form. I also imagine Blizzard will roll a similar route to PoE when it comes to seasons.
On a spectrum…it’s kinda like…
Grim Dawn/Torch Light-------D3-------------------------D2-----------PoE Current
Never said it was a bad thing. I prefer it to be more complex.
As for the streamers, any idea what D3 peak viewership is? There’s currently way more watching PoE by miles. Only a little over a years age difference between the 2.
Again, Blizz is goin after those microtransactions, they are going to do what they feel is going to keep people cracking that wallet.
