One more simple suggestion how to solve the problem with bots. Now - only in seasons. As we know, seasons have the limitation on their time (+ now there is the limitation and on maximum possible level of GR), so I want to suggest the limitation and on the paragon too for that to remove the profit from bots or ones who playing on one account by several players.
Of course, no limitations on the paragon itself, just limitation on the number of points of paragon that player can spend in the season.
This limitation = 5k (just as example, can be adjusted).
The ideal value must be chosen from analyzing the profiles of top-players in rankings that play without bots and which (value) will be comfortable for the most of them. So rankings will be about skill instead of about additional hours for farming extra paragon using bots or other humans.
For the non-season I can suggest only my previous idea:
The way to solve the problem of botting is for the people they already have to do the banning to actually do their job
And regardless of the Paragon level you are limited to you aren’t going to stop botting for keys. bounties and equipment
As I said you already, gear (top vs pred-top) do not provide enough profit for rankings in comparison with the random in rifts (ideal vs bad rift) and the paragon (profit that is giving by bots).
Moreover, I already suggested solution and for the problem with “boxing bots”, because the problem with them is due to the hole which allows to take reward (boxes of bounties) for ones who joined to the party. Closing this hole will solve this problem with using up to 10 bots for simultaneous farming of bounties. Moreover, initially, the origin of this problem is in the 4x advantage of the group vs solo mode in the farming of bounties (split farm) though there are limitations for the distance between players in the group for XP and usual drop. No possibility for split farming of bounties = no problems with “boxing bots”.
I.e. it is even not problem to solve it. It is just hole or abuse.
This is too much to do. It’s better limit sets than paragon. Sets buffs 10000%. So guess your main stat being buffed for 10.000% (i drawn for you 10.000% x 5 = 500. So each paragon you get it’s like you really have gotten 500 main stats).
Your way it’s not nice. I have a better way. Create other mode with other board rank. This new mode - legendary drops will be harder. GR RG will drop at max 1 legendary item. Rare item conversion on cube will have a 20% sucess chance only. Remove green sets/LoD/Lon. Make the max gem drop be Flawless Square gem.
Call this mode: Inferno (Hell) Season Mode with it’s own leaderboard. This way paragon evolve would not be so gaming change.
or Better. On this new mode remove green sets and add infinite progress through sets drop instead free green sets. Each 1 level paragon will allow player to drop all new itens based on level 1 paragon with +5 main stats. (Beter than giving 10.000% free on set).
Example:
Player level 10 paragon will drop all equips based on level 10 paragon. E.g. Furnace P10 (+50 main stat).
So the search for item will be infinite. Everytime we will drop better itens. So our itens drop won’t be thrash anymore.
I need you guys to understand this Diablo cannot prevent grinding. Thats just imposible, because the game is a hack and slash game. It is suppose to be fun to grind. In that case, botters is an issue when they gain endless advantages with grinding. However, Suggestting paragon caps and etc. would be like saying "This movie is scarry make it less scarry to a horror movie " (you would be ridiculous). If it is a hack and slash game, everyone has to grind. Having said that there could still be someways that people can enjoy grinding but over doing it would have some setbacks. We can argue these setbacks but grinding still have to be rewarded so botting will continue.
I believe that solving this issue would require changing whole hack and slash ideology of the game. This might not be intended game play style. However, if diablo can inherent some aspects of WoW, botting would lose its purpose.
1- In WoW clearing dungeons again and again will not give you any end game gear it will only give you lower level items of the original item. Diablo can inherent this by utilizing the ancient items. In dungeons you can only get normal legendaries. Weekly missions like finishing gr150, will give you a chest at the end of the week. The chest will give you primals and ancients. This would change the game a lot and prevent people to enjoying grinding however, it would also kill most botters.
2- In WoW you need specific missions to unlock levelling your weapon. These missions are weekly. Diablo could give some sort of bonus xp bonus like pools which gives you %25xp for 25 billion xp. Same logic but with higher coefficients like 1000% for 100Trillion xp. After getting that much xp your grinding speed will drop to 1/10.
I say all these but grinding cannot be prevented in this game. If you want that, i am afraid you are looking for another genre.
Also i want you guys to understand the seasonal buff. This season most of the damage is being done by seasonal buff not by paragons and items. This utilizes skill more than anything.
Still isn’t going to stop a single player from botting for bounties, and doing them all on their own and then you have the problem of no multiplayer bounty runs because 4 legitamate players already do split bounties
Normal item over Ancient items isn’t going to make a difference, preferred stats over junk stats aren’t going to make a difference
Guess we can get rid of all ancients and primals and most of the recipes in the cube aren’t needed
e.g. why we need reroll legendary seeing as there won’t be any difference
Pull the other one it plays jingle bells
And seeing as you spent 15 hours botting for keys you can still waste as many as you want, when you run out of keys in LB runs you turn on the bot again to farm keys and try again next day and you haven’t even needed to actually play to get the keys and all you do are GR runs
So when exactly are you going to stop bots
For someone that reckons that equipment doesn’t make a difference to rankings, why is half your seasonal demon hunter equipment is ancient and most have had 1 stat rerolled
For someone that says that that type of thing isn’t necessary you have done a lot of work doing unneeded things
Create your own thread and suggest your way.
Moreover, my way is muuuuuch simpler than your one.
Your way also required too big efforts from devs. My one - not. And yes - I do not forbid to farm paragon, I forbid to use extra amount of it for rankings in seasons. No limitations for using extra paragon in non season.
Yeah, but we still had ban-wave by requirements of players even in this “ideal” season some time ago.
Yeah. With the profit in 10x times less. They used so much amount of bots by evident reason - one bot can’t provide desired for botters profit though you and other players have another opinion.
Moreover, you forgot about 4x profit for the group instead of solo mode, so botter with its bot will obtain 4x less profit. Hence no profit of it at all with his bot.
No problems. There are clans and communities - run in your own group, not in random one. Or better adjust choosing players in random groups for that players can’t join to the group if one of boxes was already taked.
You are wrong.
I spend very small amount time to obtain such gear. For the top players it is not problem to obtain much better gear for the same time + they are interesting in rankings, so they play much more big amount of time. So I am talking about the gear that they can obtain for them without additional big efforts and the gear that can be obtained using bots. I compare these 2 gears. Of course, I do not compare profit of top or medium gear vs set of yellow items as you (and some other people) did. Do not be simple, please.
About what? If you read the whole piece you would of seen I saib pull the other one
I know there is a difference in power between normal, ancient and primals you are the one that said
You are the one that claims the equipment doesn’t make a difference in the end, so why upgrade to ancients, it’s not going to make a difference
Why change 1 stat to a different stat, what the stats are don’t make any difference according to you
And for someone that is making these claims you are still wasting time changing stats that you claim won’t make a difference
And for someone that reckons upgraded equipment won’t make a difference you spent a lot of time doing something you claim isn’t needed
Your argument may hold a lot more water if you actually practice what you are trying to preach
Devs, CM say discussion are rich. So each player opening it’s own topic from the same discussion it’s against devs suggest. Ignoring devs suggestion they will do the same with your.
You have a better way and this is it seriously. Let me tell you what will happen. You will not complete any sets what. The guy who bots will have them all. Do you know which game you are playing its Diablo with sets you can do gr100 speed without you will only do gr50 which is about 1.05^50=11.5 times higher exp. Afterwards he will get waaaaay better items because you said this,
Botter will get infinitely better items you will get whaaat exactly. If i understand this correctly thank god you are not one of the devs.
First of all i didnot say there are no botter in this season. Secondly, i said LB is about skill and it is fairly possible that people who used the bug were banned in the LB. Thirdly, i am not a heavy player but i have seen people who play the game lik 15+ hours per day. And i have seen two people play the same account. These are solid ways to get to 4k+ paragons. Do not judge everyone by their time spend and LB placement. Fourtly, you will never run out of botter even if you stopped it at 5k paragons they bot i guarentee you they will bot.
By the way i played for thousands of hours since 2012 but i recently noticed that D3 doesnot have report cheater feature because i want to use that to report makro users the wizards
What about a captcha when you log in and then one periodically while playing? If you fail it then lock the player out for a time or until it can be unlocked by proving it’s not a bot somehow. I’m half joking but…
Captchas have been machine-solvable for years. So, not only would they not provide any issues for bots, they’d also annoy actual humans, i.e. a lose-lose scenario.
Any measure to prevent botting has to not impact legitimate players.
This is the thread about rankings and botters, so - when I said about minimum profit of botters in the case of gear - I mean (of course, because it is evident for me and for anyone else who knows math) the minimum profit between top gear (primals or ancients with the best stats) which can be farmed by bots (by your opinion and opinion of someones like you, who do not know what is RANDOM and what is pseudo random which we have in D3) and the gear that can be farmed by any top player. I said my opinion shortly because you (and someones like you) have big problems with the reading posts with the same size as this post. Moreover, I refined what I mean but you still provided your arguments I commented now, fully ignoring the main theme of this thread and the time one need to obtain something better than usual legs (even not ancient ones) or set of yellow items. It is evident for all the difference between yellow items, legs, ancient legs and primal, and all know about the profit that gives sets (100x), but - in this thread - we are interesting about the possible profit that can provide bots in the gear in comparison with the gear that can be obtained by any top player (without big efforts) without bots. And your argumentation is the way to get away from the subject of the dispute, no more. Especially because I already suggested solution against your “boxing bots”.
I saw such suggestion only for new themes about D4.
Moreover, I suggested you better choice for your idea.
But I do not have any complaints against your idea in this thread excepting one reasoning - my suggestion is the simplest while your suggestion requires big efforts from devs.
Thank you very much for your explaining of his idea - I have the same opinion.
They can still use bots, but if we make limitation for the points of paragon on some level that can be reached without big efforts by the most of other players, botters (and ones that play on one account by several humans) will have exactly 0 profit in comparison with ones who playing without bots and along. And devs can ban such botters further as they do now. I suggested such simple solution as very effective way to remove additional profit that bots can give to players. When devs will develope ideal anti-bot system, they will can just to increase this limitation to 20k (i.e. to remove it).
My measure is one of such things - it does not impact legitimate players.
And yet nothing you said is going to stop bots all you are looking at is one small piece and ignoring the big picture
Like I said the only way to stop botting is for those in charge of botting to do there job
cutting the amount of points you get is only going to cut how powerful your character will become
They are your boxing bots not mine
and stopping a bot from joining a game to do split bounties isn’t going to stop them from botting on their own even if it isn’t as efficient
You aren’t doing anything about running bots for keys
or gaining equipment to wear for your character
At the end of the day bots now days are used to get bounty mats and keys stopping bots from joining games isn’t going to stop them from doing it single player and nothing to stop them from running rifts for keys
Just because your way can possibly make it fairer all round for every one by limiting the amount of Paragon points you get it is in no way going to stop bots
And you aren’t solving the problem of bots because they are still being going to be used
Even if it is to get top equipment, get keys to run GR, and running 100 GR to get levels on gems
So after running a bot for 18 hours the botter has legendary gems up around the 100 mark ready to augment equipment, stash full of items to check for better items, if the botter doesn’t do this automatically and have a ton of keys to push the LB
That is 18 hours of play that a non botter has to catch up on and we all know they wont and the botter can spend 8 hours running GR to get to stop spot while the non botters still have to run rifts for keys and GR for augments that the bot has been doing for 18 hours
In the end the botter is going to have an insane amount of chances well beyond a non botter to run for the LB because the bot is doing most of the work
And in the end Bots are still going to be run which you admitted to
So in actual fact you haven’t solved the botting problem because the bots are still there. still giving the botter an unfair advantage over a non botter
This proves you are full of it
There hasn’t been any ban waves for ages so in actual fact there is no banning for bots that they do now
Where’s the solution to stop bots from running bounties on their own over split bounties
Where’s the solution to stop bots from collecting keys to run rifts
Where’s the solution to stop bots from picking up equipment
Where’s the solution to stop the levelling of gems
That is a ton of profit over an 19 hour period that the bot has played and the non botter hasn’t played
How is the non botter going to get those 19 hours of play added that the botter did for nothing and everything they got out of it
There is more to getting to the top of the LB than just Paragon points
And limiting Paragons isn’t going to do it
I have been trying to tell you this. You cannot stop grinding at some point in D3 because the genre of the game is hack and slash which have to have infinite grinding. If it wasnot hack and slash you absolutely were right. But thats how it has to be. If you are going to suggest a system, it must be infinite.
I remember you said my way takes a lot of time on devs. You are right but that was the only way i could find that grants infinite grinding but still restrictive on over doing it.
Also wrace you are great guy reading and answering everything.
By the way i just thought of a way to prevent everyone from botting. Do not bann botters till the end of the season just write their names and wait. Last week of the season just ban them all. That way blizzard doesnot show his hand untill its too late. The botters will surely lose and bot proggrammer will not have any idea how it is being detected untill end of the season when he figures it out it is too late. This would be a Tactical retreat straight out of Art of War
No cutting, just limitation for using amount of them in season. In non-season they can use all their 10k+ points of paragon.
Yeah, it will decrease their efficiency in 10 times. They still can use them if they want. This problem will be one of devs and other players. But my purpose - decreasing their efficiency - I did.
Top-players said that it is not problem now (due to last patches), so I do not spend my time on solving the problem which does not exist at all.
It is also not problem. Top-players suggested this fact.
Suggest your way if you can. If you can’t, just leave this thread.
I am solving the problem with them according to rankings - i.e. with the extra profit (paragon) that can be provided by bots. Solution of the problem with their existing in the game is the purpose of devs according their EULA. Using the bots to simplify life of botters is not problem for me - this problem can be tried to solve by ones for whom there is such problem. I am solving only problems that can affect another players, no more.
This and other additional problems you can solve by yourself. It is not problem for top-players to obtain good ancient items, gems and other things during season, so they do not have problems you discussing in the case of rankings.
There was ban wave in the current season some time ago.
Provide by yourself.
We discussed something like already on our sub-forum.
Say, let we increase this limitation up to 10k - we still have limitation, but really we do not have it at all because of limited time of season and impossibility to reach such value diring it. Hence we can decrease such value from 10k to some value which will be preferable for the most of top players - i.e. for the value that they really farm during the season, so no limitations for them at all. That’s all. Very simple logic.
Thanks. I just think that it is better to do something than to do nothing.
Nice suggestion. Though there is one moment - botters will be on the top of rankings during all season. This can be enough for them. So the best way to fight with them in my opinion - to give them ban everytime when one of them will affect rankings for that they can’t have advantage for any long enough period of time. But - as you understand - it is impossible with our devs. So we can try to find another way (simplest way, of course, - for understanding and realization of it) or we can do nothing asking devs about ban waves that they will provide when they want. Also very simple.
I endorse the OP and their ideas to cap paragon.
I too agree with the discussions about banning cheaters as a higher priority.
If the cheaters were constantly banned, we wouldn’t have to worry about paragon level caps.
If only they could get a grasp on the cheating situation, then we could enjoy fair competition once again.
