Zz…I could do this all day 
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There also is a third option. Timed loot which is also provided by PoE. In that sceanario all drops are global but only visible to one player in the multiplayer game for a smidgen of time. Afterwards it is visible/FFA to all. This would address my concern and I think solves yours too.
Restating your argument does not make it more compelling to me as restating my argument does not make it more compelling to you.
This is well-stated.
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This is true.
Sometimes I also gave items away from free, just to help other players.
I don’t really have a dog in this hunt, and if I were to make a prediction I would say that the loot system will remain as it was in the original D2, for better or worse. And I will happily play it either way. May the odds (and your clicking fingers) be ever in your favor.
With that said, I’ve been following the discussion and I’ve seen you and others point this out as a potential flaw with personal loot. And I agree: if someone can sit in town while others clear the map, and then saunter around at their leisure and potentially claim a prized item with no work put in and no fear of the item being grabbed by anyone who was actually out there fighting, then yes that for me is a show stopper when it comes to instanced loot.
But let me ask this: is there a control that Blizzard could implement that would make it more palatable for you? For example, no loot drops for you if you don’t participate in the kill? A vote kick or lock out measure for AFKers? Dice rolls for uniques and HRs?
I’m not necessarily advocating for any of those things, and like I said I’m with you 100% on the idea of AFKers being able to get rich for no effort. I’m just curious if there is anything that would make instanced loot acceptable for those who are opposed to it.
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Since D2 has an actual party function, could tie it to only party kills. See a leeched unform and reform party.
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100% this.
The number 1 thing I do NOT want to see in a remaster is any Huge changes, and this would be one of them. I actually really enjoy competing for loot, I even like trying to beat bots to loot (extremely hard, but possible).
There’s nothing more frustrating than killing Baal and you get pushed away by his ice wave right before he dies, and you see a dope item drop for the jerk positioned behind him perfectly. But that’s part of the game and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
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I’ve only restated arguments in response to points that you keep recycling, but avoid addressing the rebuttals to.
A reasonable and level headed point of view, finally worthy of further discussion. Kudos to you sir! I’m certainly not opposed to exploring other ideas/mechanics that would enhance the overall experience, as long as it maintains the competitive spirit of the game. I don’t like the idea of segregating the game into two isolated environments, and most suggestions I see here invoke boogeyman arguments about cheaters in a thinly veiled attempt to avoid facing the fact that they can’t deal with the competitive elements or higher skill ceiling of the game, and would rather see the curve flattened to a mean. In doing so, it makes the whole experience very mundane, and unappealing (my opinion of course, but a challenge that has also been recognized by dev teams on games like D3).
As you know, D2 is a game that was made in an era before the availability of these modern-systems that likely would have been implemented if they were available at the time in order to further address or flesh out certain edge-cases/balancing issues. D2 isn’t perfect, and while there is certainly room for improvement, certain quirks have actually become apart of the appeal. While I’m open to changes, it’s important to recognize that this game is basically a time capsule, and even if we wanted to implement certain changes, I’m not entirely sure they would reliably be able to do so with the constraints of the underlying engine ( at least the ones that would pose the best solutions).
For example, is there a system in place that can even record/differentiate between players who are doing the most healing VS damage? How long would it take to implement such a system? Some solutions are topical (such as a votekick function - (which I think is a good idea) while others are infinitely more involving or foundational. We may just be wasting our time here ‘daydreaming’ about what could have been with D2, which is why these discussions tend to be much more valuable at the infancy stages of a game, like D4. I don’t expect D4 to do loot the same way as D2, but I’d reckon if they learned anything from D3, they will be hesitant to wholly adopt that system since it’s created a whole myriad of its own problems.
Realistically, my biggest concern with personal loot is that encourages isolated play and more importantly reduces exposure to commonly useful items, placing newcomers especially at a disadvantage thinking that they are doing themselves favors by avoiding global drops. Everyone here seems to be concerned about sniping boss drops which accounts for 1% of the game’s experience. I don’t think it’s unfeasible to imagine something like a 90/10 ‘mixed’ system where majority of the loot remains shared, but a very minute amount of drops (such as boss drops) can be divvied up. Off the top of my head, I don’t think it would be a bad idea to prioritize boss drops for those in the party who completed the quest when the boss was slain.
Drops in D2 don’t just go to the skilled or competitive, there is a reason my pally got a bigger share of the loot than my necy on runs. The loot system in D2 overtly favors those close to the kills. This led to the ranged fighters no longer attacking when it got close to a kill and they run up to get the loot. The system is inherently unfair if you play in public games. Finding a guild or steady group to play with becomes very much needed to have any balance in life. It also is why we all solo farm - thus the current loot system encourages solo play so I can get the loot when I am playing a back line character.
Guild Wars 2 has a system where you earn ‘tiers’ of rewards depending on your ‘contribution’ to the event/boss kill/etc. This system is out there and is plausible to implement. I would wager the coding that goes into it was bigger than the whole of D2.
BUT…while I would be happy to see such a system in D2R; I would play in more public games with more people I don’t know. I don’t think it is really something they should put in, mainly for the fact that such a re-design is far more work than just remastering the game. Save it for D4.
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Well said, I completely agree. The game is gambling when it comes down to it, shared loot is like shared winnings when you’re the one paying for the slot machine to go. JACKPOT!!! Then a rat-weasel swoops in during a cloud of lag and you’re screwed.
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I totally agree, the shared loot system is the strongest possible way to discourage playing with other people. The original creators of the game made skills purposely synergize together, like a D and D group. It would be amazing to see 8 players regularly playing together and not feeling like they are being robbed constantly.
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I just had a pretty whacky idea, and I don’t even necessarily support it, just wanted to throw it out for fun — what if boss loot dropped in a wider splash and in a really random arrangement in the room? So instead of all loot falling near the boss, some pieces would randomly volcano out and land near where the ranged people might have been standing?
This would be all random, and definitely not ranged = farther away loot, melee loot = closer. Just a significantly wider splash of loot on boss defeat.
I’m mostly of the mind to keep D2 as it has been, but just sharing ideas for fun. What do you think of that?
Edit: I just thought of an issue with this:
It’d essentially turn boss loot into personal loot. Because practically speaking, no one would be getting what didn’t drop near them. =/
You are wrong in so many important ways. First of all, the only way you can play with other people is with real world friends who you can trust. Anonymity has been demonstrated countless times in the psychology literature to encourage anti-social behaviour, greed, and other antagonistic behaviours etc. Combine that with the random-reward nature of the game, like a slot machine, makes for a terrible combination of gambling with the ability to rat-weasel other players WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE. Therefore, people will play ALONE to get their own slot-machine winnings or only with friends they know. It absolutely destroys online team-playing. If you want to PvP, do that in your own game. If you want to have shared loot, do that in your own game. Let us have individual loot if we want it, it is so much better. There are too many ways to ruin the motivation to play with other people, we should WANT to play with other people, not tell them to move away from where you are killing stuff. Man, how amazing would it be to see multiple people rolling around and murdering demons, synergizing auras and spells and other skills with up close tanks and ranged attacks! Wow, incredible. Never happens.
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It would reduce one aspect of the unfairness of shared loot.
Great, you can make your own game and suffer in that way then. Let us have the option to enjoy playing with other people we don’t know.
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If an elite or boss drops a couple of items, no one owns it before someone pick it up. The one who pick it up first, owns the item. Don’t think you are the owner of the item because you saw it first. If you didn’t pick it up, good luck next time. You have plently of chances!
Personal Loot will ruin the core of Diablo 2. Why should we ruin a masterpiece game because of some people wasn’t fast enough? Only cry babies are crying about this.
FFA loot is much worse for the lower level player in this scenario. A senior high level player is playing with a newish, lower level player.
Scenario
200 total drops
2 are awesome, rare drops that Sr and Jr would benefit having
4 are good for Jr but not of interest to Sr
FFA:
Sr knows that 2 drops that are awesome and he keeps these for himself
Jr get the 0-4 good drops for him (assuming that Sr lets him know which may not be the case)
Personal loot:
25% Chance Sr gets both awesome drops
50% Chance Sr get 1: 50% chance Jr gets 1
25% Chance that Jr gets both
Jr gets on average 2 additional good drops for him. The Sr player may or may not pickup and then drop the good items for Jr. Therefore, Jr will get 2-4 good drops for him.
Conclusions
- Sr gets both awesome drops in FFA, while this only occurs 25% of the time in personal loot
- Junior gets 0-4 good drops for him in FFA (assuming that Sr lets him know which may not be the case). In personal loot, he will get 2-4 (assuming that Sr helps him)
Exposure to commonly useful items is a non-issue since these drop commonly.
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You seem to think it is an equal click opportunity, as if players are beside each other all the time. Ranged and summoner characters kill a lot of things and are not near them, melee characters and teleporters swoop in. Its just an absolutely awful experience for me which is why I only play with friends or solo. Allow it as an option. You can enjoy the masochism in your own games.
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Sorry I know you disagree but people’s feelings matter and so do dynamics in the game that influence those feelings. Player interaction is important. Why players would interact and how they would interact. It may seem like a general stupid way to defend myself but I believe a game is only good if people have fun playing it.
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bingo. and people are not having fun with the constant stress of having no friends to play with, and having to fight for loot with randoms.
i could bet my house on that the majority of players will avoid end game public games because they are afraid they will never get the good loot. that is no fun, no matter how someone thinks that its super immersive and role playing by having the loot drop for everyone.
that does not fit quite for this game even if it has been the case for 20 years.
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I want personal loot as an option on game creation. I don’t agree that it’s a bad thing, I believe it would improve party play/farming with strangers.
When a season has ended and it was a bad change, I will be willing to admit I was wrong and support a roll back.
Edit: IIRC in D3 you can still see party member’s loot drops but not pick them up. So you can still call need on stuff, if they implement it the same way.
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