In D2 when I leeched/ninja looted (assuming that no one was hacking), I got way more than 12.5% of the good drops. When you are being a tank, pretending to attack/attacking sporadically and really just waiting for drops, it is easy to get more than 12.5%.
I consider myself a decent moral character, however, FFA does create “competitive” dynamics that do not necessarily instill “play hard, play fair”.
So as my post showed, in personal loot system there is only a 1.5% chance for a leecher to get both good items. You can double check the math, here:
If the probability over time is the same for personal loot and FFA in your opinion, I am not sure why this is contentious. I prefer the PoE system where players can choose, since I do not think the probabilty is the same over time.
People and their behaviour are affected by conditioning. When you play and get zero items because you are a summoner, you learn quickly to avoid strangers. It is simple psychology. We avoid negative anti social situations with bad actors that have no social relationship with us. Friends is the best because there are consequences to being evil.
The probability is very similar but there are distinct reason I disagree with personal loot despite that.
YOU are the one asking for something to CHANGE. I am saying it should stay the same because what you’re asking to change doesn’t really do what you say. This is important.
If personal loot is implemented in a way I can’t take other people’s drops I now see less drops in a multiplayer game. With this we can throw all the math you did away. I will be walking away with less drops
There is some skill/knowledge that helps in FFA. Not all players know what good items are, so for an experienced player yes you get better loot in a way at the expense of others. Its often not even taking from them, this could often be something they would have never picked up anyway in personal loot.
This is opinion, I don’t see a scenario where people would not complain if for whatever reason there was 1/8 of an 8 player game drops in ANY D2 loot mode. Even if optional. I would see this leading to some sort of loot increase in this mode making it now mandatory to play since it becomes advantageous .
The downsides of personal loot that have been said many many places to you.
I am asking for it to remain the same. I am also advocating for the addition of another option.
This would be the case. My math was based on it.
True
Some would complain. That is why they still can select FFA. FFA is not removed.
The benefits and drawback of timed loot/personal loot have been said by many. The benefits and drawbacks of FFA loot has been said by many. Where freedom of expression is valued, individuals can express divergent opinions and viewpoints based on their personal experiences and knowledge.
Sorry to state a cliche, but be the change you want to see.
You can communicate, especially with this older crowd coming back to D2 - and you can quickly find people who share your gaming spirit. We can easily organize password-protected games for these likeminded people to join whenever, or simply message them when they’re online. I’m sure there will be guilds dedicated to playing “nicely” - so many of us are older now, and there will be a huge demand for that kind of gameplay. If a guild doesn’t start quickly enough, you can even start one! But that won’t be necessary. This would be playing “cooperation mode”, as you’ve called it, in Diablo 2.
But you are upset it’s difficult to jump into a group of random people and be able to loot politely and synergize skills.
Well, sorry “Chibling”, but there’s no good remedy for that other than communication and minor relationship-building. Diablo II was built to be played this way, and it’s effects branch out like blood vessels throughout the game… 's body.
You seem to not understand how ploot is too drastic a change to address the issue you’re lamenting.
I think most of the ploot proponents understand why a game with both classic looters and plooters wouldn’t work.
So then we have the option to set each world’s game mode to classic or ploot.
Then, suddenly, people on the same server, people in the same future games even, will have gone through different experiences in acquiring their gear.
I don’t think you see this, but that deep difference ruptures a fundamental, unspoken social connection between D2 players.
Suddenly, this decked out player we’re playing with or against or looking at in the lobby may have just been auto-allocated their cool equipment. We, on the other hand, have fought through the grim, challenging world of Sanctuary, befriended some along the way who we fought cooperatively with, thanked the dark gods for our nearness to lucky drops on other times, and suddenly - there is no shared experience of challenge between us.
Resentment will build if we’re fighting against a plooter who had their ultra weapon plop into their inventory, while we needed to play the classic game, with its grim, awesome challenge, for it. If classic players and plooters were always mixed together - the predominant mix being former-plooters trying a classic game - the sense of social cohesion between all D2 players would be fundamentally damaged.
It would damage the very basic sense of empathy players automatically, de facto, have because of everyone’s fundamental game-world experience. It would be like if some players acquired skill points differently from others – this basic sense of connection, shared experience, would be damaged.
Do you see how this affects the community? How it affects the social medium of Diablo II (which is totally taken for granted)?
This community reason is in addition to myriad more technical reasons others have given - including MF issues.
The only ways I could see ploot working are sad solutions – either splitting plooters off into their own server, away from the classic server, or restricting plooters to only playing in ploot games on the main server.
A rule could exist - if a player ever joins a ploot game, they’re restricted to only joining ploot games from then on.
That’s sad because the community would be split again - and it’d be doubly sad because so many new players would just opt for ploot because it was what they’ve been used to. They’d be unwilling to try Diablo II and so wouldn’t have a chance to enjoy the uniquely fun experience Diablo II can offer. An experience which results from its systems played as they’ve been.
If something must be changed, the least-worst seems to be separating plooters into their own server. But I do not think that’s necessary. Isn’t D2R supposed to be a resurrection of Diablo II?
I believe that I will need to find people I can trust. I remember there were clans in D2 where they would distribute gear fairly at the end, they would use a random number generator to determine who gets the items if more than one player wanted them. It allowed them to play the game together and with a fairness, that it because there is reciprocity in their relationships, there are consequences to poor behaviour. You seem to remember a very different game. People were not as generous as you contend, though it did happen sometimes.
I don’t know about your hypothetical example. How would individual loot necessarily increase the speed by which items are obtained? If you keep the loot rate the SAME but shuffle it among the players with a 10 second timer to become free for all, it could work really well and not change the loot speed. In fact, the decked-out player may well have snatched all the items via teleport or are great at item snatching and they have all the gear because of how they are playing. Individual loot would result in more players having access to items, on average, this is true. But you would not shoot ahead in gear, like someone who is sniping everything in a shared loot game. I honestly think a game option is all you would need to do, why would that fracture the community if the drop rate is the same? Are you that against strangers killing monsters together without worrying about being treated unfairly?
There’s no way to really win this topic in todays day and age. Like said above back in the day we had no idea what PL was so having to scramble over the boss before they died and mass click our mouse for pickups was all we knew. Given the date and games released since, people have just come accustomed to how certain drops work and no other game since D2 back in the day has made people scramble the way we had to for loot drops.
I’m personally against PL in D2 as like I said above having to click faster then other players or by chance of luck get 1 of the 2 legendaries that drop was the fun and intensity of the game. I used to run numerous Baal & Mephisto runs and get nothing and watch my friend get and item or two and be like damn… Then other times it would happen for me.
Also I don’t think they’re should even be a toggle option either or if they do then make it so you can only que and play with other players with it toggled on. Cause when you start mixing things like that in game, you have one side of players playing it to its intended spot for spot remake but with new visuals then you have your Quality of Lifers who are just gonna blow past those players on Leaderboards and etc cause they’re basically always getting items as opposed to the some killing bosses and getting stiffed. It would become way too unbalanced.
Even though like the devs said they’ll never doubt the power of the internet and what it can do and if bots and everything will make it past the new Anti-Cheat software they’ll be using. Bots can bot all they want but reporting is also more intense now then ever so unless they start looping their bots fast enough and off-loading/trading to then another account i’m sure accounts will be banned and all items lost. So hopefully we have at least some nice time between launch and the future before the community gets loaded with those. I also know we were able to have two different D2 clients up at the same time for keeping a mule in place while trading between your chars and not losing the game. I’m wondering if they’re gonna make it the same or account tied through BNET??
Why would leechers in baals and scrubs not helping get a peice of the loot? Hell no to personal loot, thats ridiculus.
All of those who ask for that will leave as soon as d4 comes out or even diablo immortal.
No way blizzard will ever tailor the game around those types of persons. There is plenty of other games on their catalog for people that need someone to hold their hand.
and the odds increase for the higher players in comparison to the lower, allows rushing and not lose out on the drops. Usually the level differences in actual game play are close to these penalties.
These penalties take in effect at the same range the XP would, if lower level players are within personal loot spawning, the loot is skewed more towards the players closest and have a level advantage.
So Level 92 rusher:
Rushed:
Level 58, the rusher gets 100% of his
Level 67, the rusher gets 100% of his
Level 83, the rusher gets 75% of his
Level 85, the rusher gets 30% of his
Level 90, the rusher gets 0% of his
Each drop will vary obviously depending on who is close.
if the 92,90,85 are involved its:
730 items
92 has 38.5% - 281 items
90 has 38.5% - 281 items
85 has 23% - 168 items
If 92,83,67,58 are close:
730 items
92 has 83% - 606 items
83 has 17% - 124 items
67 has 0% - 0 items
58 has 0% - 0 items
if 85,83 are together:
730 items
85 has 50% - 365 items
83 has 50% - 365 items
if 83,67,58 are close:
730 items
83 has 100% - 730 items
67 has 0% - 0 items
58 has 0% - 0 items
Make it you can choose FFA or this type of setup, splitting it evenly is madness compared to possible contribution. Also if your friends enough to be carrying someone throughout content doing all the work you clearly can trust them with FFA.
I find it funny how people defend shared loot with points like “clicking skill” and “looting knowledge” as if those things existed. There is no such thing as skill in clicking or using any sort of knowledge when looting. What happens is that everybody who wants to loot goes to the boss when it’s about to die and spam mouse click… Thats not a skill and nobody has time to think what to loot, or even read the name of the item. Everybody will spam click and loot whatever their cursor hits. That’s all looting is in groups in D2. Nothing more. The loot distribution will be also random, some may get more some less. Everything is random and there aren’t many factors.
The ones who defend shared loot are the ones who want to keep the old system of doing runs with lowbies doing nothing. I don’t like that concept at all, but people have been doing those runs for years and can’t give up on them. It’s part of their life. That’s the main reason they defend it, not because it’s how D2 is and should stay like that due to nostalgia.
If it wasn’t for Blizzard south, David Brevik would of turned Diablo 1 into a turn based game and probably diablo 2 as well. I think people should put a little more faith in blizzard.
The sauce:
It’s a fun watch who ever is interested in the development of diablo 1.
I don’t like the idea for personal loot only but I would love to see a similar loot system like in Path of exile.
This is what many of us already knew. Initially in D2 development, FFA loot was not selected because it was superior to personal loot. It was selected because the concept of instanced personal loot did not exist back then.
The extra details are nice to hear. If instanced loot did exist back then, it might have been adopted because he hated the fact that he would kill everything and his partner in the multiplayer game Eric would suck up all the loot. It sound like he supports the idea of adding a personal loot option in D2R, assuming it can be implemented with disrupting the trade economy.
In D2R, the trade economy will already be massively disrupted with elimination of duping and reduced botting. PoE provides the example of how loot system options can be successfully implemented without adverse effect on the item economy.
So, because your friend picks up loot faster than you, you’re going to ruin the way loot works in the game and destroy the economy? Oh please. Go play in a private game, then. Or tell your friend to share.
What if I’m playing with my friend and he likes instanced loot but I like FFA? You will divide us up with this stupid suggestion. FFA is how it was in D2 and always should be.
I’ve already replied to you plenty of times and said my stuff, you’re just going to say the same things over and over like spam. Have a great day, MicroRNA.
