I don’t get you people anymore. Just because you can’t utilize it, doesn’t mean item is any broken or unusable nor you’re entitled to use it without drawbacks while no other item gives you a reliable bonus without pairings.
Keep discussing. May be something comes out from it.
“Other item”… But you did not list that item yet. You only listed combination of items like ring + amulet or ring + ring.
If there was that one ITEM that gives DH options it would be good.
You do realize you’re trying to put up an argument with players that are highly competent and innovative? Players that have put in countless hours of playing, testing, and theorycrafting…How many people do you know that can push Gr120+ as UE?
#1 UE, Rank 10, P3701, Gr126
#2 UE, Rank 19, P3465, Gr123
#3 UE, Rank 24, P1960, Gr122 (DiE)
#4 UE, Rank 51, P1572, Gr120 (Uses Flavor of Time)
#5 UE, Rank 69, P1989, Gr118 (Doesnt stutterstep, pushes straight ahead, doesn’t skip trash/monsters)
I’d argue that probably a good majority if not all the following UE DH players lower than rank 69 aren’t capable of stutterstepping to avoid incoming dmg.
When it’s all said and done…The dmg buff increase no matter how many stacks still makes it a better option than other viable items…Especially in the hands of players that successfully know how to stutterstep. It’s a very intensive playstyle and in my book isn’t even really fair to have to play that way. No other class/build really has to play this way. It’s highly effective if used right but under-rewarding at the same time.
2 Likes
Lessening the drawback is a buff.
That doesn’t mean item is broken, that means UE DH needs a buff. It doesn’t have to be a silly trinket tweak that would buff Barbarian and 'sader (GR145+) classes 2-5 tiers up.
We asked for this…
It is not only about UE DH. Impale RGK can’t keep Squirts up in GR 150 even with Barbs IP and Monks Inner Sanct. And Impale is much more tanky than UE.
1 Like
Seems that some folks believe Squirt’s is used in all classes…I just reviewed IcyVeins build guides for all classes and found the following builds recommend the use of Squirt’s as “BIS”…I know it’s not a comprehensive list nor are tweaked builds from the community included, but it’s a decent reference point.
DH UE Multishot
DH UE Chakram (LOL)
Necro LOD poison nova trash killer (group only)
Necro Mages w/Trag/Jesseth
Wiz Vyr Archon
Wiz LoD Hydra
Wiz Typhon Hydra
7 of 75ish builds.
Wiz has better shielding options (eg GW passive and Magic Missile Deflection) so they get more out of Squirt’s innately.
down to 4
Necro group trash killer - we’re kinda focused on solo here (IMO).
down to 3
DH Chakram??? Good luck clearing anything but speed content for keys/mats.
down to 2
Necro Trag Mages and DH UE MS.
Does anyone play Trag Mages as a Necro? There’s a reason it’s a low/mid tier build that I don’t think anyone considers for pushing higher GR tiers.
So what’s left for Squirt’s??
The UE MS DH with few defensive shield options (basically Gizzard NS since you can’t drop Dawn for Fortress Ballista), who’s getting pummelled and slapping mobs with a paper towel while waiting for that buff to come back up.
1 Like
I always thought damage reduction percentage equal to your discipline amount is the way to go since classic times (where we didn’t have loads of discipline to begin with) but this approach is nice as well.
There’s roughly 2% of barb and crusaders on the PTR combined that are using squirts setup. None of them are using it with a shield.
How would lets say removing the 50% penalty give them 2 to 5 GR’s? They’re in point blank range, so it’s highly unlikely they’re getting to max stacks to even be penalized. Any of the suggestions would do nothing for them. It literally will have no effect.
Still don’t see any videos though. Hell, I’ll even take a sader or barb video since you said those exist. Remember, 50% up-time or more. 
That’s my point. If a class isn’t supposed to utilize it, then make the item a class specific item and do not fool a class into using it. Other classes make better use of it, then only those classes should be able to equip it. Otherwise, it’s a trap item and the game doesn’t need anymore of those.
'Nuff said.
I think you’re taking this out of context. As I dont think anyone is really arguing that the whole item is broken.
CoE grants huge burst dmg, but it pratically has no negative side effects to use. Most people hate that CoE is a must have item in most builds. Even if you dont use it to its max effectiveness, it’s still roughly 25% dmg buff through the whole Grift, no drawbacks, no increased incoming damage.
2 Likes
No one mentioned a shield but a defensive buff…
Only optimized approach to really wear that amulet is cubing Yang’s and dual wielding Dawn with Ballista (with Gizzard at jewelry), but that means you’re giving away cost reduction and have to rely on Cindercoat with RoRG cubed. That doesn’t sound like a competitive setup.
You have to align its cycle with your cooldowns or at least resource usage for a dump. That’s its drawback; a motor-skill reflex requirement. It doesn’t have an up time of 100% or on-demand like other jewelry Sets.
Anyone remember when they did not let us use Furnace? Not DH item.
Can’t use Executioner Axe.
Can’t use Messerschmidt’s Reaver.
While there are no other options that give us similar utility.
grabs popcorn
rocks chair, awaiting for evidence to claims
drops a kernel, yells “jordan” while shooting it at the trash can.
Misses horribly
Cries
Sits back down awaiting for evidence
3 Likes
DiE,
If I were you, I’d add an edit to the opening post, because the counter argument to your proposal appears to be. “The DH isn’t supposed to use and thus there’s nothing wrong with it.”
If that’s the case, then Blizzard should limit the item to the classes that are “supposed” to use. Class Specific in other words.
Then we can go back to be the worse class with nothing to complain about.
Damn I first liked but then disliked… It got to be “Kobe”.
Same argument can be made for many items, they mostly deemed uneffective for the job. For example I like Sash of Knives with N6 Strafe but no way it’s a competitive item compared to Hellcat’s Waistguard. Sash of Knives is an all class item but I don’t remember any proper build utilizing it; only meant for low dps channeling skills (some niché LoD/N builds) and still have a bad performance. While class only Hellcat just surpasses it area damage wise and that’s what matters in clearing Greater Rifts.
What you’re debating here can be pretty much seen as the example of multitudes of the general game design. If you think UE DH needs a buff (which I think it does) say so.
UE DH NEEDS A BUFF!!!
Pronto.
2 Likes
Thats another thing as well. People pushing Gr120+ aren’t dumping all of their hatred…Aside when their respective CoE cycle is up. They’re constantly alternating Multishot and Evasive Fire to keep their hatred near full…Just another example of what most UE people don’t do when attempt to push. Most will dump all their hatred firing Multishot and then kite back and sit in 1 place firing Evasive Shot for a couple seconds. Most people are sitting ducks.
The argument for Squirts is that the item still isn’t rewarding enough for even the few that properly know how to push as UE. There is avoidable dmg. And using whatever shields available to the build isn’t enough because in return we have to drop a damage gem to do it. Or drop Dawn which in turn would require us to stack more CDR to try to gain 100% uptime on Vengeance, which in turn lowers our dmg and/or dmg reduction from forcing us to replace essential stats.
I still argue that maybe Hellfire Amulet is possibly still a better option but there still isn’t a passive rune that gives the potential that Squirts offers in dmg.
Ok, so I’ve read all your comments about how squirts is working as intended and you are debating against everybody saying that a little tweak on the amulet would be that bad. Then you mention Sash of Knifes that back on the first seasons of RoS was actually a great item that “Blizz” trashed because of power creep. Same happened to the Harrington Waistguard when they removed clicklables from Gr’s same happened for the Crashing rain that had its time to shine back on previous seasons as well as many other items.
But right now we’re not actually aiming the discussion about 1 item, this 1 item could actually be saving a whole set from being forgotten and left out as I just proved to you that happened with those items. And I believe you are smart enough to know that for next PTR patch there will be a significant change to make the new set viable and probably will outshine other sets with a lot of potential which is exactly what is on discussion here.
Honestly it’s a shame that the new Barbarian set for i.e. didn’t shine well this season that was definitely a dev’s mistake because players crave diversity on viable builds to play and yet they end up one more time with the spin to win build but hey we can do it higher now how cool is that?