No, again, that’s you misrepresenting what I said.
Here it is in the simplest terms, my argument has always been that balancing on top clears of 10K paragon players, is idiotic. That view hasn’t changed. My argument is still the same.
However, the nerf crowds argument continues to change and evolve as their arguments get crushed. Most of them show a clear lack of understanding of their own argument.
You just proved this by not understanding basic statistics, that if the majority of players are playing a certain class, then clearly they will have more high clears.
And yet you say I’m the one in denial?
We’re never going to agree on this, that much is clear, but I’m not the one changing my argument.
You just proved this by not understanding basic statistics, that if the majority of players are playing a certain class, then clearly they will have more high clears.
Nope, that is why i said compare wizard from past era with current WW barb (this was in order to delete the popular factor that WW has this era, in the past era the popular guy was wizard).
If you compare the popular wizard from the past era, with the popular WW from this era, you will notice that WW beats the clear of wizard from past (and with less paragon) (and this it’s actually worse for WW barb, because this patch was released like 1 month ago only, we are using the data from 1 month against the data of an entire era, and WW already beats wizard, at high, medium and low paragon)
I agree with Salamandra. I do not control the GR clear data that is available to anyone online or in game if you know where to look.
In game, you can select recent season/non-seasons (eras) for different regions by selecting region in the launcher and making/having a character for that region. This information is also available on the Blizzard websites.
The website linked below has seasonal/non-seasonal clear data (era 12) for America/EU/Asia/China
The funny thing about posts who claim that my tables have thoughts or feelings is that no one has ever produced a single example to support that. The closest I have come is to say on the PTR was the top barb non-season clear was 140 and an estimate was 144-146. I even acknowledged it was an estimate. In one table, I had a typo that I fixed (in total a number was wrong for less than 30 minutes) that someone brought to my attention.
When people tell you not to check the data, I always wonder why.
P.S. If you want, you can even download current and historical leaderboard data by following the directions for using the API. This can be done for multiple regions. The API link is at the bottom of the forum webpage to the right of the word Press.
yes, but that is why i was talking about guys that cleared 130 with 3k paragon… you can’t use the top clears argument, because 130 is not even top 300 lol…
WW beats past era wizard at any range. high paragon (10k). mid paragon (4k) low paragon (2k)…
This is what I meant by the changing argument. Originally it was nerf because everyone was going to be steam rolling 140. Now it’s nerf because a guy with 3K+ paragon done a 130, and more people are clearing higher with Barbs, when every other class had already done it long before Barbs.
I looked briefly at the data. The non-season leaderboard needs to mature. You can look at necromancers and clearly see a sampling bias problem. Several eras ago, I soloed 101 on a necromancer (and barely made the top 2000 on the leaderboard). Now, a GR 101 clear would be second page.
From quotes of the game producer is seems like they have target GRs based on paragon levels, main stat, and gear. It appears to me as a wholistic approach. The advantage of looking at top clears are these players know the game well, have godly gear, high paragon, and tend to fish.
The thing that you posted it’s pure non sense, i just picked data and compared it.
My argument it’s still the same. WW is like 4 levels over the projected balance, even devs said that anything +4 levels over the balance deserves nerfs.
Crusader was nerfed not because 10k Paragon players were clearing non-Season 150 solo (though that was part of it), but because the clears–both solo and group–were dropping in Paragon, getting faster, and the build was obviously incredibly overtuned compared to everything else.
There will be one build with one class that will be stronger than all others, whether it is 1, 2, 3, or 4 GRs, and right now, Barb at 145 is only 3 tiers above where WDs were last era (non-Season) and 4 above Demon Hunters. If Barbs are a little stronger than everyone else, it’s not a big deal, and we’ve only seen 2 of the new class sets, so that power dynamic may quickly go out the window.
So when I hear this:
My response is:
No, the devs did not say that. Cederquist said that range would be examined, but he also said what 10k Paragon players are doing isn’t their concern. In other words, we all need to stop worrying about what 10k Paragon players are doing, and start looking at what the build does for the largest player base.
Instead of saying, “X should be nerfed,” you should be asking yourself, “How can I make the case that Y and Z should be buffed to that level?”
In other words, work for buffs, not nerfs.
Y’all need to stop playing Fun Police. Sit down, clam it, and knock it off.
Could you please provide a quote from Matthew Cederquist or a Blizzard post that led you to the conclusion that they are ignoring 10K paragon players relative to their thought process on balance?
Free even quoted the Matt’s post stating that a solo barbarian 142 clear in non-season by a 10K paragon player was 1 GR above their target.
I searched all Matt’s posts the closest thing I can find is a quote saying that 8K+ paragon players are a small percentage of the playerbase. In this post, he also said that balance would be revisited because one class (cusaders) was considerably higher than expected. In addition, he did mention looking at the leaderboard overall.
When patch 2.6.7 was initially released, crusaders were incredibly OP. In patch 2.6.7a, they nerfed the shield to reduce their power.
Do you agree that the crusader nerf in patch 2.6.7a was justified and needed OR do you think they should have left crusaders alone and buffed all the other classes to reach the new crusader power level?
