Then it can get buffed later.
Absolutely correct. In this particular case, the data is unequivocal about some who made predictions that were not subsequently validated and were proven false.
We digress. This thread is about 2-handed weapons and rend with an aside raised by another poster about the merits of whirlwind auto-applying rend.
On the issue of whirlwind auto-applying rend, do you like this or do you dislike this? Do you think that it is good or bad overall?
Have you seen Miss Flanagan in those Downton Sixbey spoofs?
I just have to wonder the logic on having two different kinds of Rends that uses the same Rune but canceling each other out when one is cast and the other auto-cast, it seems to me that by doing that there would be a lot more calculations going on in the background then there needs to be, therefore causing more potential for LAG then there would be if both Rends worked the same.
It is 100% better than before with that I agree. Is it anywhere near where I would like? Nope
What would you like to see to make it better? More power? If so, I would suggest that you look at:
Their non-season target is GR 141 for 10K paragon player with godly gear. GR 143 is acceptable. GR 144-145 gray area. GR 146 and above definite nerf.
No, they didn’t, and it was explained to you–over and over–by various people in various ways, all of which was worth as much as spitting in a dry well. You can, of course, construct a narrative that paints you like a reasonable, data-driven truthsayer, and it’s no more true than me telling people I’m a flying tomato with magical farts.
This is only true insomuch as saying more damage is good. The auto-Rends are, on the whole, very little of the damage output. We proved this when Lamentation was nerfed after the PTR. The auto-application does help us deal significantly more damage, but it certainly isn’t the only way to accomplish that, and while it isn’t the worst, it’s certainly not the best.
No. You do not get to use this word that way. That is not what discrimination means. Next thing you’ll tell me is that you feel “unsafe” in this thread.
You understand that the terms good and as they apply to the topic under discussion aren’t mutually exclusive, right?
That is not a fact. At 142, they considered a 10k Paragon player to be +1 over projected balance. Cederquist has also mentioned that what 10k Paragon players are doing is not necessarily the rubric by which we should be quantifying performance in terms of buffs/nerfs. The blog post isn’t out yet, but you’re already on your horse, mouthing off about “balance,” or “data,” or fruit pies, or whatever other detritus has caught your attention.
I’ve seen your thread in GD and it’s nothing more than a thinly-veiled cry for nerfs. Your obsession with “balance” is in fact an obsession with sticking it to Barbs, or meddling in communities that give you a lot of push back. It’s obvious what you’re doing, and worse, it’s disappointing.
You and I have a different take. Some people agree with me while others agree with you. I feel the facts speak for themselves. As you know, I have called for nerfs to other OP classes/builds such as wizards and more recently AoV crusaders. My view on balance is not about any class or build in particular.
Personally, it is my opinion for the reasons that I already noted that I like the fact that currently whirlwind auto-applies rend.
Buddy, alts don’t count.
Yeah, see, that’s the thing.
You’re not the Fun Police. Or the Balance Police.
Stop doing that.
Stop “calling for nerfs.”
There isn’t a room at the UN summit where world leaders are sitting around, chewing their knuckles, wondering when table guy is gonna rally the troops and lead the global call for nerfs. Capisce?
Knock it off, sit down, have a cold one or ten. Cheer for your favorite football team. Ask for buffs, not nerfs.
You and I agree that parity/balance between classes is a noble endeavor. That is one of the fundamental elements of your and Rage’s 2.6.6 barbarian buff proposal. I would say that we are in total agreement on this. For me personally, I like the idea that I can play any class and be reasonably similar in power.
You invested your time and effort to call for buffs for an underperforming class. I have congratulated you for these efforts in multiple posts. I have repeatedly reiterated that barbarians deserve buffs prior to patch 2.6.7. I am glad that barbs got buffs.
The problem is that there are occasions where a build is overpowered, resulting in a case where a nerf is appropriate. This is where (I think) you and I diverge in our philosophy.
Blizzard nerfed OP build(s) in patch 2.6.7 and will again in 2.6.8. Facts are facts. Matt has clearly said that AoV crusader is not balanced relative to their objective and will be nerfed.
Philosophically, if balance is not important and no one should call for nerfs, then a corollary to this statement is that no one should call for buffs either. As you know, I think both buffs to underperforming classes and nerfs to OP builds are needed.
P.S. I know writing “repeatedly reiterated” is silly.
P.S.S. I will continue to ask for equity (both buffs and nerfs) as the game data indicates while I have the privilege to post on Blizzard’s forum. I will also advocate for you to have the freedom to post your views as long as they are in accordance with Blizzard’s CoC.
Did you drink the Kool aid?
The build is powerful enough. The fact that to get the most out of it you need to rely on gimmicks and tricks is what sucks.
It’s the same reason I can’t stand reakors. I don’t run any ad on gear simply because my ancient pc can’t handle the resulting lag. And that holds me back when if the devs would have taken the ideas from the barb buff post it would be a non issue.
Can you explain to me how if the changes in the barb buff proposal were adopted, how that would solve the area damage problem, since hardcast of both whirlwind and rend can proc AD. For your convenience, I quote below what was written in the barb buff proposal wanted to fix WW and rend.
Copied from Proposal List 1
Wrath of the Wastes and Whirlwind:
Skull Grasp bonus increased from +400% to +600%
To achieve cross-class parity, Skull Grasp bonus increased from 300-400% to 1000-1300%.
Wrath of the Wastes (4) mitigation increased from 50% to 60%
Copied From Proposal List 2
Wrath of the Wastes, Whirlwind, and Rend:
Wrath of the Wastes (6) : Whirlwind gains the effect of the Dust Devils rune. All Whirlwind and Rend damage is increased by 10,000%.
Ambo’s Pride new legendary affix: “Rend deals 40-50% increased damage for every Rended enemy within 25 yards. Maximum 20 enemies.”
To achieve cross-class parity and enable group play option as TB, Ambo’s Pride bonus increased from 40-50% per enemy (1000% max) to 80-100% per enemy (2000% max).
Skull Grasp: To achieve cross-class parity, Skull Grasp bonus increased from 300-400% to 750-1000%.
Mortick’s Brace bracers reintroduced to the game. Affix: “Wrath of the Berserker gains the effect of every rune.”
Lamentation new legendary affix: “Gain 8-10% damage reduction for every enemy affected by Rend within 25 yards."
War of the Dead new legendary affix: “Rend no longer costs Fury.”
You miss understood what I meant by holding me back. And I can see why after rereading my post. My pos computer is the issue with ad. My severe rage inducing and highly murderous feelings towards gimmicky play (wall charge, stutter step WW etc) being the way to get the most potential from a build is what my real issue is.
The issues with Area Damage is the number of server-side calculations required, not client-side local PC stuff. You could have an ultra rig in your house and you’d still need to occasionally press Escape on your client to pause the client to allow the server to catch up with server-side calculations. This is why AD is frowned upon in groups, as the server-side delays cause issues for all four clients in the session and because the players can’t pause a multi-player game for the server to catch up.
I know the issue is server side but my PC takes so long to recover once the lag starts the rest of the group is far ahead. Honestly it’s a truly ancient pc. Still running an AMD 945 CPU. Occasionally I play with my wife’s much better PC and the difference night and day.
My God I haven’t laughed that hard in years🤣
Considering the fact that ww/rend barbs have cleared GR 145 and GR 144 in non-season, when I think of you typing, I will now have a new image in my head.
See:
Stop acting as you were right all the time, man. Barb only have reached so far because Free wrote a post and barb community went on war against the world for keeping the lamentation buff. Surprisingly enough, we had major positive feedback from other classes communities aswell, and the devs reconsidered.
You only talked about a mild nerf in the end, when tons of feedback and calculations (by other players) were done. Stop acting as you have been right all along, because if it went by your calcs we would be stuck in 138-140 with too much luck.
The way you twist words and facts remind me of politicians, which is enough to make me sick.
How dare you so blatantly insult politicians like that. They are upstanding citizens that sell out and roll over daily to benefit themselves. They would sell there mother’s into a sex slave ring just to make a buck. And you want to drag them further down with these insults??? How dare you sir!!!
I would encourage you to look back at my posts on the PTR feedback forum. Here is one from Oct. 21. The 2.6.7 PTR started October 17.
In the first couple of days on the PTR, it was unclear to me what the top potential of the ww/rend would be. After a few days, I advocated for moving the rend buff on lamentation from 200% (i.e. 3X) to 100% (i.e. 2X). You will notice that this reduction does NOT calculate to a GR 138-140 for top players.
Also, I would be careful of other issues. A person can advocate for a community and change but that does not mean that all the arguments that they use for change are meritorious. Also, someone can advocate an unpopular opinion that does not mean everything they say is wrong.
In this narrowly defined case about the top power of ww/rend, the estimates of several individuals during the PTR time frame including myself were right. This raises a question of whether we “just got lucky” with our estimates. However, this does not explain why others were incorrect in their estimates. For me personally, I based my assessment on the in game data that available at the time.
Early discussions of whirlwind auto-applying rend (I recall a conversation between Free and Gasnick) was before the 2.6.7 PTR. It was from early August.
This response was a couple of posts below.
Unstraddle your horse, hunt some crow, bake a pie, and have slice. Wait… that’s the cure for pride. You suffer from delusions.