I think by now everyone knows how much more superior group play is over solo. This season greatly magnified that problem. So I just thought of some simple things that could slightly lessen the gap without tipping the scales. Keep in mind all of these would be for solo only.
Regular Rifts no longer have a 30 second timer.
Follower experience gear counts as yours.
Gem upgrade chance is 100% if Greater Rift Level >= Gem.
Completing a Greater Rift in < 2 1/2 minutes grants 1 extra gem upgrade.
Only 2 bounties per act are needed to receive the cache.
I’m almost certain none of these would be hard to code in.
Solo lives matter!
Solo lives do matter, I agree with you there and agree that solo play can feel handicapped. Unfortunately Blizz intentionally made group play better than Solo play because they thought it would be “more fun” so they wanted it to be rewarding and draw in players. They forget how many really like to just zone out and solo to reduce stress and do their own thing.
You have suggestions, but I am curious what problem/s you want to solve. What is it about solo play that particularly bothers you? Making suggestions is good, but what helps the Devs most is to have a good handle on what YOU feel the problem is - what makes the game less fun for you.
I will give mine:
Huge EXP boost when playing in groups. Yes, I know Blizz wants to incentivize group play, but I don’t enjoy groups and hate feeling punished for not being in one.
Bounties. The time investment to get them done solo vs group is insanely different. To the point it makes solo players hate bounties and not even want to do them. Past suggestions have brought up reducing the number in solo games, or increasing mats per X time period.
Those are my two big issues with solo disparity that resulted from them incentivizing group play.
How they chose to fix it, if they chose to fix it, would be up to the Devs. I would be interested to see what they come up with.
My point was that instead of telling them what your suggestions are, start with telling them what your PROBLEM is - specifically. I stated what mine were and why, as well as why it made gameplay less fun.
From there the Devs are far better able to understand the problem at hand, and work with their tools and design plans to resolve those problems. If we tell them what the end point is (suggestions), without telling them the explicit problem, it tends to get disregarded.
Player suggestions are good in that sometimes the devs can work backwards to the problem, and come up with their own ways of solving it, but it helps to just list the issues.
Example:
Sets are very strong and it really makes all the other gear seem sub par and there is no enjoyment in getting it.
Dev attempt at a solution to this was Legacy of Nightmares that let us get a lot more power out of non set items. Not perfect, but it was an example of the Devs focusing on the problem and trying their hand at a change to address it.
Unless those only work in solo, it would also help groups.
Yeah, completely agree.
The issue is fairly simple. Playing alone feels punishing vs. playing in groups (and as I’ll keep repeating, 2-man and 3-man groups have the same issue to some degree). There is absolutely no comparison on the efficiency.
It is fine if groups are slightly ahead. Like 10%, not 100%+. That big of a difference only succeeds at demoralizing you for “playing the wrong way”, when there is no good reason that solo play should be a wrong way to play (I’m all for punishing people for playing the wrong way when it makes sense Like the death penalty in GRifts to prevent graveyard zerg strategy as an example)
In the end, most of us are likely not “only solo players” or “only group players”. We play solo sometimes and in groups sometimes. So even group players are being punished here, whenever they manage to find themselves playing solo. If Blizzard want to keep people around to play with their friends, maybe dont design a game that punishes you the second they are not around.
As for solutions:
XP/MF boost in 4man-groups. Make it baseline for all group sizes, including solo of course.
Agreed on bounties, both reducing the amount you have to do, or increase the reward when solo would work fine.
Monster HP. Kill speed is the main difference between groups and solo. Blizzard already lowered monster HP solo (and 2-3man groups) once, although in GRifts only. Lower it some more, and both in and outside GRifts, so solo. Like, maybe decrease monster HP by 20-30% solo (and less in 2/3man) and see how it goes. Adjust further up or down if needed.
Along with HP reductions, or as an alternative; buff the follower. Allow it to use more legendaries that buffs the player. Add new legendaries the follower can use to buff the player. Make the immortality follower item baseline so we can use the other ones instead (only issue with this approach of course it that it does nothing for 2 and 3man groups).
Most important. Dont make solo fall so far behind in Diablo 4 to begin with. Sadly D3 is likely a lost cause.
@MissCheetah. Yeah I know what you mean I just thought it would be pretty obvious what my problems are based on my suggestions. Basically trying to compete on solo is really not solo vs solo but solo vs group.
@Nefertiri. Sorry for the confusion, but the +10 levels meant 10 more than now.
For example take Greater Rift 100:
with a level 100 gem you would have 60% chance to upgrade, with my proposition you would have 100% chance to upgrade.
I removed the +10 levels to clear up the confusion.
Exactly. I gathered from the early explanations that Blizz felt that if they “made” people play as groups it would make the game better, sell more copies, encourage people to play longer. For SOME people that is true. Those social folks also enjoy MMOs for the same reason - social interactions.
My personal opinion is that it is flawed to think that group should be incentivized and that is a good business model. Diablo is a game that people enjoyed solo, even more so than group (if you agree with interviews Blizz gave back in D3 early development).
I don’t mind them encouraging social play - as it does make for fun gameplay for some and I get why they want to encourage it. I just don’t want it SO far ahead that solo feels punishing. This complaint has been going on since D3 released, and got only worse with Bounties.
Exactly. I really hope D4 does not make the same mistake that assumes the key to making people like the game is to incentivize group play to such an extreme extent.
Edit
The funny part about this, is it creates social backlash. Some people end up begging friends to join them, come play, etc. Everyone has had that one person who just pounces on you the second you come online!
NO - my day sucked and I just want to go mow down some demons my way until I am no longer ready to bite human heads off. I am not in the mood for humans!
Yes - I likely have said something like that to people. Heh. I am notorious for using Invis on apps that have it an for declining group invites. I don’t even take power levels.
Make the experience buff in groups decrease the less amount of players in the group there is, but you increase magic find.
From a lore standpoint, your group shares their knowledge with eachother, they get better at fighting quicker, but on the flip side being less in the party or solo, you have more (or better) loot since you wouldn’t have to share with others.
It gives solo the advantage of gaining better loot.
Yeah. The only reason it makes sense to try and make groups slightly more efficient is to avoid scale from tipping the other way; like it supposedly is in PoE, where it is more efficient to play solo. I get why that is pretty bad. People should not feel like they get dragged down when playing together (as long as everyone carry their weight of course* - if one player is literally boosting the other, it is fine that you are less efficient obviously).
I have always seen the Diablo games as great solo games. It is the type of game I play while listening to a podcast, maybe even watching a tv series or whatever. Relatively easy games (too easy sometimes…), with no story to follow, nothing that takes much focus, while you are farming.
And then sure, it is also great to play with friends sometimes. But both of those ways to play should be totally acceptable for Blizzard, without a big flashing “you are playing the game the wrong way right now, please call your friends already!”
*speaking of carrying your weight in groups, one issue in D3 probably is that group bonuses from skills/passives/gear got out of hand. Leading to zDPS, but also just leading to groups being way more efficient than what each player brings to the table themselves. For D4, that would likely be a good place to start. Maybe make healing skills only ever work on your own character as an example.
The idea is not to make group players feel punished either. That is not a good outcome.
The two modes of play likely won’t be equal. That is fine, they just have to not be SO far apart.
The loot share concept you talk about, is kind of against the way the current Diablo games work. One of the features most people like a lot is Personal Loot - in that we don’t have to share and fight over drops. D2 the person who clicked fastest got the items. D3 everyone gets their own loot so no sharing is required. Hopefully D4 has something similar - squabbling over drops on the ground is no fun.
The way the game currently works, your Legendary Find goes UP when in a group.
Mobs get harder, but XP goes up, gold find goes up and Leg find goes up. Oh, and bounties are MUCH faster.
So that is why currently there is no “simple” fix The second you think your fix is simple that should be a little bell that tells you it is not.
Arguably mobs dont really get harder. Sure, more HP, but not more HP per player, which is the relevant difficulty metric tbh.
Back in time, monsters even got lower HP per player in groups, but that was changed in GRifts at some point (they still get less HP per player in Rifts and bounties though… not exactly helping with the bounty discrepancy either, although since monsters get oneshot outside of GRifts anyway, that hardly matters much).
There is no simple fix that will make solo and grouping perfectly equal. But there are certainly simple fixes that would reduce the gap.
Like make the current 4man 30% group buff the same for everyone, lower monster HP/buff follower with new items, adjust solo bounties.
I think you missread, I meant from a themematic viewpoint, you still have personal loot, just that if you’re gonna explain lore in any way, that would be the best way.
Exactly, and that’s why I proposed that in a full group that extra magic find is 0%, but you still have extra experiance, thus balancing out both things.
Group play is already strong enough with special roles covering others weakness, so there’s no real need to have both things better than solo.
That is another issue, and honestly I cant say how it would work effectivly, why I say that is what happens if another person enters the session when you’ve finished or half finished all bounties.
Is it exploitable?, will it add additional bounties?, how does that work?
If the system is watertight then sure, I’d be happy to have it.
I say simple because, I find it much easier to just mix with that number, sure it wont fix everything, that was not my intention, but it would close the gap a bit.
I play solo as much as groups… because of real life circumstances, lack of clan mates online or simply put I just really want to do my own thing.
I see many posts in the forums about the disparity between group and solo play so I figured I would share my thoughts to beef up the solo experience.
Now I don’t think the answer is to penalize group play. Leave it as is.
Rather I think something can be done with followers.
Some ideas
Change their stats so they are similar to a player
Allow players to fully gear them. Then players can outfit them with more DPS, CC, XP or whatever
Allow generic legendary/set bonuses to apply to followers (non-class specific items)
Allow players to hire ALL THREE OF THEM at once but adjust monster strength just like group play to compensate.
Rework Ashera’s set or Blackthorns for followers only
Allow Unity but only on your first hireling
Add some Follower-Only items beyond just their relics.
Allow them to use Leg Gems
So net result would be like playing in a group but it is really 3 AIs that are helping you. Plus think of all the builds, extra stash and fun to farm for all your followers.
Completing a Greater Rift in less than 2 1/2 minutes grants 1 extra gem upgrade.
I really like this idea not only because it helps solo mode but it now makes people in groups weigh their options more carefully. Should I Group up for more Experience or solo for more Gem upgrades. Every option should have it’s benefits. Solo basically has none.
Like the death penalty in GRifts to prevent graveyard zerg strategy as an example)
The second you think your fix is simple that should be a little bell that tells you it is not.