Season 24 GoD Frostburn

Demon Hunter
41

Oh, and as far as my better abilities in the 140. Some of it is paragon. Some of it is a balancing of crit chance and Area Damage. And part of it is gathering good sized packs and switching from one side of the large group to other about every 5 seconds or so and letting area damage and free crits decimate the mess.

I don’t think I can split it into two groups because one always wants to merge with the other. So I might gather 30 to 50 mobs together and then, like I said move from one side to the other so that they don’t get a chance to build up much immunity. If there’s elites in the bunch and they don’t die with the whites, I just leave them and move on to next unless their health is pretty low or the kind with large hit boxes where area damage might hit them twice.

Seems to be working pretty well.

42

I did some testing with 120-121 speeds. I got 121 below 2min once with coe but i had many below 2.30 with MoC. I def proc more with COE… and for speeds, i think both are about same with MoC gives me more safety. FB wont work well, or i would not prefer COE because if it takes you that long to kill elite (to wait for COE cycle or use freezing from FB), then you need to level down…

I have not tried pushing yet, i really hate grinding :smiley:

43

so, umm, i got 2 primal quivers today. first was crap and 2nd 1 hr later was goodish

basically 1k dex/cit 20ias, 8 elite damage and i rolled 10cc over 15% hungering arrow. it was +6.9% dps over my old one with 14% hungering arrow… but is 8% damage to elites counted on d3planner? the primal on d3 planner is 1.2mil less dps… but if they dont count elite, then it would be better… it does give me 9million more toughness, so ill def use it from now, but i am curious which 1 is actually more dps…

44

Used 50 keys, got a double Festering with a Conduit and Shielding Pylon on the first floor. Well ahead of the time by killing 7 elites between the two. Second floor…Frickin’ Kazra! Ruined the frickin’ run.

Oh well, I’ll probably get lucky again but damn, that was extremely disappointing. lol

Still, I got 140 in the bag with some really good luck!
Edit:
I think it might be closer to CoE than the math predicts. With CoE, you’re managing it’s cycle. With Frostburn, you’re managing creature immunity. Since I’ve gotten better at switching from one side a good pull to the other and taking occulus circles when they present themselves, it seems it plays alot like CoE. Just managing creature immunity instead of a 20 sec cycle.

I mean honestly, it feels a lot like CoE despite that difference. I think CoE beats it when it comes to elites if they don’t die while knocking down a good pull, but I think Frostburn, once you get used to managing immunity beats CoE when it comes to trash mobs.

Like Tinne says though, the real difference will be the RG fight. That’s probably where CoE will win hands down. But I think, just conjecture, but it feels like, Frostburn can be faster than CoE through the Grift and slows down at the RG fight.

At least that’s my hypothesis for the time being.

1 Like
45

Yes, d3 planner does count elite damage but you have to check the box that is above the page where your skill are.

That’s where you’ll see the difference between elites and whites. If you’re going with MoC that’s a decent quiver. But missing that HA damage will hurt, I think, more than the 8% elite damage helps.

If you can afford to, like if your crit chance is 55% to 60% with the crit chance on the quiver, I think you can get away with rolling the crit chance to Hungering Arrow.

The 8% elite dam. essentially replaces the 10% crit chance in that scenario, I think.

I’m not a math guy but the free crits you get from the Buriza aren’t counted on d3planner. So d3planner will say you get more out of crit chance when actually you might get more out of HA damage.

1 Like
46

good point. i am exactly at 55% with quiver, so ill roll 10cc to HA and see how that goes

1 Like
47

I missed this post. I don’t know what your paragon is or what your gear looks like and I’m not one to go poking around someone’s profile to find out.

I haven’t done a 120 with CoE since about 400 paragon ago so I can’t say how fast I would be with that given my new equipment and the 400 paragon.

But I run 120’s with Frostburn in the 3 to 3 1/2 min range most times or I did before I got a better amulet and Primal Frostburn but that’s one shotting everything in the GRift with maybe a 10 sec fight with the RG. I’ve been busy trying to push a 140.

But I’ll venture a guess that since I have almost 2300 paragon and these new items, I’ll probably be able to get that down to somewhere between 2 and 2 1/2 minutes.

But in 130’s, it fluctuates pretty broadly between 5 min and 8 min (I run these when I’m leveling gems for augments but only after I’ve gotten the gem to 115 after doing 120’s till 110 gem rank and 1 125 for gem rank 115 and then run the 130’s until the gem is 130-131)

125’s are pretty regular at the 4 minute mark every time.

Skill levels vary and MoC is a safety first thing. It allows you to be a little more reckless probably isn’t the right word but it let’s you keep squirt’s up a lot easier which can account for your better times.

I don’t have to be careful in a 120 but pump it up to 130 and it can get a little hairy sometimes but I can do it without dying so it’s safe to empower the GRift. For me anyway.

48

Please go inspect my profile and tell me how I can improve. p level 2538 as of right now…

Ya, i try to run them inside 3min,. but sometimes 3.5 if i dont get power or condoit or shield and level has alot of doors of winding pathways. my best is 1.59 for 121.

right now, i am experimenting with coe and 120;'s and 10 cc vs 15% HA. i dont notice the difference but i bet i will at higher levels.

I just wish someoen could offer meaningful answers as d3planner does not. 10cc wins over HA by wide margin… but not taking into account the weapon, OBV…

i hate grinding so only my 3 main gems in 130;s rest 122/123 for augs

49

There is no correct answer. It depends too heavily on your freeze uptime.

If you have 100% uptime on freezes, then you don’t need any crit on gear at all.
If you have 0% uptime on freezes, then more crit will always be better.

The truth lies somewhere in between. There’s no universal answer, because your crit uptime is going to vary depending on the content you are running and the speed you are clearing at.

You said 55% CHC with quiver right? And 130 Taeguk? Okay, let’s compare the damage numbers at different % uptime on freezes.

0% freeze uptime

w/ 15% HA
((1+1.00*4.8)*0.00 + (1+0.45*4.8)*1.00)*(1+0.72+0.45) = 6.86

w/ 10% CHC
((1+1.00*4.8)*0.00 + (1+0.55*4.8)*1.00)*(1+0.72+0.30) = 7.35

10% CHC wins by a fair margin (7% dps).

25% freeze uptime

w/ 15% HA
[(1+1.00*4.8)*0.25 + (1+0.45*4.8)*0.75]*(1+0.72+0.45) = 8.29

w/ 10% CHC
[(1+1.00*4.8)*0.25 + (1+0.55*4.8)*0.75]*(1+0.72+0.30) = 8.44

10% CHC still wins, but the difference is pretty small (about 2% dps).

50% freeze uptime

w/ 15% HA
[(1+1.00*4.8)*0.50 + (1+0.45*4.8)*0.50]*(1+0.72+0.45) = 9.72

w/ 10% CHC
[(1+1.00*4.8)*0.50 + (1+0.55*4.8)*0.50]*(1+0.72+0.30) = 9.53

15% HA wins, but the difference is pretty small (about 2% dps).

100% freeze uptime

w/ 15% HA
[(1+1.00*4.8)*1.00 + (1+0.45*4.8)*0.00]*(1+0.72+0.45) = 12.59

w/ 10% CHC
[(1+1.00*4.8)*1.00 + (1+0.55*4.8)*0.00]*(1+0.72+0.30) = 11.72

15% HA wins by a fair margin (about 7% dps).

In the 25-50% freeze uptime range, the difference is pretty small. 10% CHC is a bit ahead at 25% uptime, 15% HA is a bit ahead at 50% uptime. As you get closer to 100% uptime, 15% HA starts to pull way ahead. And if you are close to 0% uptime, 10% CHC is way better.

In a speed scenario, you probably have fairly high uptime. So 15% HA should win out.

If an elite or the RG takes more than 5 seconds to kill (or the elite is a Juggernaut), your uptime will drop quite a bit. So CHC might be better in those scenarios.

The higher you go, the longer fights will last, the more time you’ll spend near the CC immunity limit, and the less uptime on freezes you have. The longer the fight, the better CHC will become in comparison. The shorter the fight, the better 15% HA will be in comparison.

I think for speeds you could make a pretty good case for going with 15% HA.

50

very curious and thank you. for speeds, i don’t think it matters, because i do 2.5-3min 120;'s and it vastly more dependent on pylons vs monsters.

if this is right, at higher levels = more immunity = chc has better value. thank you

i just got a new ring too, instead of avg dam, dex, cd, it’s 50 cd, 6cc, 20 area damage

51

I’m did some rudimentary testing last night but first some sort of caveat; I have Primal Depth Diggers, as well as Primal GoD pants with the same stats, Dex, All Res, HA dam. However the GoD was augmented with 600 and the Depth Diggers are augmented in with 655. As I was running Frostburn through the 130’s I leveled a gem to 131 and reaugmented my GoD pants to 655 as well. So there’s a 55 main stat difference Between Frostburn/MoC and CoE in the 120 and 125 Tests but everything is exactly the same in the 130’s.

I ran 5 Frostburn, then 5 MoC, and finally 5 CoE. So the difference between MoC, Frostburn, and CoE should be smaller than that 55 due to increased paragon as I completed the GRifts in the first two sets of tests.

I ran 120’s first, then 125’s, then 130’s. I also skip all Speed Pylons. Also Law of Small Sample Sizes applies.

Edit: Also, I started out at somewhere around 2260 Paragon and finished with 2323 Paragon.

Grift Tier 120:

Frostburn:

1st Grift: Festering Woods map/Power, Conduit, Shield Pylons> Time: 2:30 (I’ll throw this one out on account that it was a GG Grift that I really wish I had run in a 140 tier.)

2nd Grift: Barracks map/ Speed, Channeling, Conduit Pylons> Time: 4:20

3rd Grift: Keep Depths/Speed; Westmarch Commons; Festering/Shield Pylon> Time: 3:45

4th Grift: Vault of the Assassin; Plague Tunnels/Speed Pylon; Stinging Sands> Time: 3:41

5th Grift: Short Battlefield; Plague Tunnels/Power Pylon on the RG> Time: 3:10

Average: 3:35

Mantle of Channeling:

1st Grift: Spire; Temple of the Firstborn/Conduit and Shield; Crypts> Time: 3:09

2nd Grift: Festering/Channeling and Speed; Hell Rift; Plague Tunnels> Time: 3:06

3rd Grift: Hell Rift; Corvus/Conduit; Shrouded Moors; Halls of Agony/Speed> 3:51

4th Grift: Arreat Crater/Shield and Speed; Stinging Sands/Conduit and Channeling> Time: 3:00

5th Grift: Halls of Agony/Speed; Spaghetti/Channeling; Plague Tunnels> Time: 4:13

Average: 3:11

CoE:

1st Grift: Halls of Agony/Shield and Conduit; Shrouded Moors> Time: 3:17

2nd Grift: Crypts/Speed; Sewers/Shield and Channeling> Time: 3:38

3rd Grift: Arreat Crater/Speed; Spire/Shield> Time: 3:57

4th Grift: Arreat Crater/Speed; Sewers> Time: 3:41

5th Grift: Stinging Sands/Power; Westmarch Commons/Shield and Conduit> Time: 3:41

Average: About 3:40

GRift Tier 125

Frostburn:

Grift 1: Barracks; Aquaducts/Channeling; Plague Tunnels> Time: 6:33

Grift 2: Plague Tunnels/Shield; Halls of Agony/Channeling; Westmarch Heights/Conduit> Time: 5:13

Grift 3: Arreat Crater/Channeling and Shield; Hell Rift; Keep Depths> Time: 5:15

Grift 4: Halls of Agony; Cathedral/Conduit; Flooded Cave> Time: 4:57

Grift 5: Corvus/Speed; Plague Tunnels; Pandemonium Fortress> Time: 5:57

Average: 5:35

Mantle of Channeling:

Grift 1: Eternal Woods/Shield; Stinging Sands/Conduit> Time: 4:05

Grift 2: Pandemonium Fortress/Shield; Shrouded Moor> Time: 3:36

Grift 3: Kulle’s Zone; Stinging Sands/Shield, Conduit, and Speed; Flooded Cave> Time: 4: 57

Grift 4: Corvus/Channeling and Conduit> Time: 5:04

Grift 5: Corvus/Channeling, Shield, and Conduit; Vault of the Assassin> Time: 5:17

Average: 4:24

CoE:

Grift 1: Greyhollow Island/Shield and Channeling; Battlefields> Time: 4:08

Grift 2: Stinging Sands/Channeling; Stinging Sands/Shield> Time: 4:24

Grift 3: Barracks/Conduit; Plague Tunnels/Speed and Channeling; Spire> Time: 5:51

Grift 4: Temple of the Firstborn/Channeling; Festering/Speed> Time: 4:09

Grift 5: Cave of the Borrowing Horror; Eternal Woods/Shield and Speed> Time: 4: 58

Average: 4:42

Grift Tier 130:

Frostburn:

Grift 1: Hell Rift; Vault of the Assassin; Icefall Caves/Conduit; Corvus> Time: 6:29

Grift 2: Cathedral/Speed; Plague Tunnels/Channeling> Time: 8:21

Grift 3: Eternal Woods/Channeling; Foundry/Shield; Corvus/Conduit> Time: 8:04

Grift 4: Spaghetti/Channeling; Halls of Agony/Speed; Festering/Power on the RG> Time: 6:24

Grift 5: Corvus/Speed, Channeling, and Conduit; Barracks/Power on the RG> Time: 6:36

Average: About 7:20

Mantle of Channeling:

Grift 1: Corvus/Channeling and Power (Died trying to get more out of the Power than I should have); Temple of the Firstborn/Speed and Conduit on the RG> Time: 8:30

Grift 2: Shrouded Moor; Westmarch Heights/Shield; Battlefields/Conduit> Time: 6:34

Grift 3: Stinging Sands/Power, Temple of the Firstborn/Shield; Vault of the Assassin; Halls of Agony/Conduit on the RG> Time: 6:43

Grift 4: Kulle’s Zone; Battlefields/Shield, Conduit and Power on the RG> Time: 4:54 (Note: I’m going to take this one out of the average just like I did the one in 120 for Frostburn. It just wasn’t an average Grift.)

Grift 5: Crypts/Conduit; Festering/Speed> Time: 7:04

Average: About 7:13

CoE:

Grift 1: Battlefields/Shield; Spaghetti/Power on the RG> Time: 5:37

Grift 2: Stinging Sands/Speed (Died on this level); Spire> Time: 7:10

Grift 3: Plague Tunnels/Channeling, Battlefields/Conduit and Power on the RG> Time: 5:26

Grift 4: Crypts/Conduit; Halls of Agony/Shield and Speed> Time: 6:36

Grift 5: Pandemonium Fortress; Festering/Shield and Power on the RG> Time: 5:59

Average: About 6:15

1 Like
52

i think it makes sense… as at higher levels they develop immunity, so FB are less useful compared to pure dps of COE. MOC also loses out, i guess, but I am glass MOc does not lose to anything really, until you get to 130…

I been trying to find more efficient runs for exp wise… i did 40 total runs, 10 x 4 at 120, 121,122, 123 i had a 3.45 120 and a 2:06 at 123. I think i came to realization that playing on a laptop, laying down, i should play what i like… sometimes 122 is good and otherwise times when i am tired or at work… I am not sure if anyone can tell me whats more efficient…

BTW

I did see 3210p did 147, that’s only 3k dex difference, so i can easily do 140 if i am lucky wiht a rift…

53

Got 3 upgrades on the way to paragon 2451. I think I’m going to go for 2500 before attempting another 140.

Just giving an update.

Edit: I figure it might not take as much fishing if I wait. Still gotta fish but maybe a few more white types will be doable.

2 Likes
54

I tried 135 6 times and gave up. Just had bad luck with pylons. Then, I got a good one and did it sub 10 min. Heh, what gives…

55

Any number of things can explain that…

  1. Different mob types give more progress than others.
  2. Pylon Placement: If you get a Shield or Conduit first and there are 2 to 3 or more elites near each of them, it equates to a lot of progress. Note: Power will work too but to a lesser extent but still one can help down 2 elite packs. Power on the RG is like gold though!
  3. Elite affixes: Waller and Illusionist are really bad for GoD. Missile Dampener is also bad. If you get a rift without these affixes, the elites are easier to kill.
  4. Depending on how much area damage your packing, some mob types have large hit boxes, Golgors and the Big Spiders are examples, when area damage triggers, it can hit these mobs twice meaning quicker kills, added benefit these mobs also reward a lot of progress.
  5. Map: If a map is open it means more mobs can gather in one spot and again, in this situation, area damage is your friend.

That’s the main ones, and if you get 1 or 2, it’s a good rift, 3 and it’s very good rift, and 3 or 4 + good map and we’re talking a Dream Rift and that’s the main reason folks fish.

Edit:

I decided to run some 135’s with MoC and am consistently doing them in around 11 min. That’s with so-so rifts. For comparison’s sake, I can do 135’s with Frostburn in around 12 min. So MoC is about 1 min faster in grifts that high.

I’m going to still try to do 140 with Frostburn just because it’s a self imposed goal knowing full well that with MoC or CoE, it would be a lot easier.

So Revised Rankings:

  1. CoE
  2. MoC
  3. Frostburn

They’re not equal but they aren’t tons apart either. Gotta admit I’m a little bummed by this. I was hoping Frostburn would be a little better but I’m thinkin’ CoE can kill the RG faster, MoC gets through the rift faster, and Frostburn shows up in last place by having to get extraordinary good RNG to compete the higher you go.

Still, Point stands that Frostburn can complete a 140. You’d just do it quicker with MoC or CoE.

1 Like
56

Yep, it was an excellent rift. 2 rooms, first is that squarish one that often has pylons very easy. I got large spides and larger flies with 1 elite, as soon as I killed it, I got shield pylon, I killed 2 more elites and on the next map, I got 3 elites very close and conduit, so that’s 4 elites, By that time I ws around 70% and 4 min in. And yep, I got power on RG.

just a smooth rift, felt like it was 130!

1 Like
57

Just did some finagling with d3planner comparing Frostburn to MoC. Just stats wise, with equipment be close to equal, the only difference being my Frostburns are primal and I just upped the augment from 650 to 680 and my GoD gloves are ancient with something like 960-something or other and augmented with only 650 as well has having 10% less area dam.

According to d3planner, Frostburn is like 9.8% weaker than MoC. Not even a GR Tier, not counting the more frequent crits.

I’m also experimenting with dropping FoK for Marked for Death Grim Reaper on both builds. At first, I was really tempted to give up on trying the 140 with Frostburn but the new knowledge that at worst, Frostburn is less than 10% weaker it makes me rethink my original thoughts.

I mean, 1 GR isn’t anything really when it comes to pushing the leaderboards.

That’s sort of prizing though as I thought Frostburn would at least be 2 GR’s weaker if not 3 considering how much fishing I’ve done to try to get that 140. lol

58

The thing is, FB is only going to be beneficial if it helps you with more freezes. Otherwise MoC is much better, The issue for both if us is immunity. So, I don’t know if d3planner is going to help. 1 GR difference is meaningless because if you get the right rift and pylons, imo it’s a solid 3-5 gr difference.

I think FB may only be beneficial in the right rift and perfect play… but those 2 are not me :).

1 Like
59

Yeah, MoC is pretty much better because you can’t figure in how much more uptime on Squirt’s you’ll have with that set up just like you can’t figure in how more reliant freezes helps Frostburn. I figure that’ll put MoC even further ahead.

But to your point, fishing is the name of the game once you’re doing 140’s this season. In non season, my highest clear was a 132 and had to fish tons for that.

Point is, once your build is at it’s limit it all comes down to RNG how much further you go unless you put the time in to farm up tons of paragon.

I’m going to try to get to 3000 this season because I’ve got a little 3398 in NS. If I get 3000 (or more exact 2998) paragon this season, It’ll put me at 4000 when the the rollover at seasons end happens. I’m sitting at 2545 right now. So a little under 2 months to get around 460 more paragon.

I’m thinking I might even hold off till the last 2 weeks of the season to push 140 again, just so that when I do, it’ll probably be an easier time.

60

ya, for sure… i just hope to get better amulet… quiver i been gambling since p600… lol… and it’s pure luck!

1 Like