Season 24 GoD Frostburn

Demon Hunter
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Running Frostburn/RoRG over CoE got me a 130 in under 6 and half minutes. It’s capable of 140+ too. Though I only attempted a 140 a couple, I was able to get ahead of the timer on a Festering Map but a Barracks second map ruined the run.

It was a GG Rift if not for the second floor. Killed 3 elite packs with a Conduit and could have been 5 if I had done just slightly more exploring before activating it.

Point is…

Frostburn with Buriza is very very possible to run high Grifts. It could possibly be better than running CoE. Needs more testing to determine that.

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So best case scenario is that it brings you from 64/480 (no frozen targets at all) to 100/480 (all targets frozen all the time). I suppose we could assume you swap some CHC rolls for AD/CDR/damage range, but let’s start with a basic crit build and see where that gets us.

(1 + 1.00*4.8) / (1 + 0.64*4.8) = 1.424, i.e. you gain a 42% DPS increase from the guaranteed crit against a frozen target if you have baseline 64% CHC.

Then there’s the value of an extra 20% cold on top of that. Going from 40% to 60% cold is a 14.3% dps increase, or 13.3% if you use elemental on Enchantress (so going from 50% to 70% cold).

Together, that would make Frostburns worth as much as 61-63% dps. A little less I suppose since you still get from freezes from Buriza itself, but in my brief testing Frostburns seemed to give freezes a lot more consistently than the innate Freeze from Buriza.

This is, of course, assuming it gives you full freeze uptime with Frostburns. The value will decrease the more you build CC immunity on mobs. I expect it’s worth more on average in your 5-7 min runs (where you can kill some enemies, especially trash, before it hits CC immunity) than it would be in a max tier push. I think once you hit CC immunity you can probably only expect 30-40% uptime on freezes after that if you keep attacking the same targets. At which point, it’s definitely worth less than CoE.

But in mid-tier runs, there’s definitely an argument for it over CoE. Before you hit CC immunity, it has the potential to be better than CoE assuming high enough freeze uptime.

In higher pushes you could also try and increase the value by bouncing between packs. That’s the old Vyr’s trick for Arlyse + APD builds when they first added CC immunity. Bounce between two different packs every 5-10 seconds, so just when one pack is getting CC immune you go back to the other, which in the meantime lost a good chunk of it’s CC immunity buildup. It’s not perfect, but it’s fairly effective. If you have one really big pull you can also just move side to side in the pull because you won’t be freezing distant targets on the far side very often in that scenario.

The same principle should work nicely with GoD + Frostburns, if you can make two smaller packs and bounce between them you’ll get more value from Frostburns and should end up with higher DPS on average. Try to be aware and play around CC immunity to increase the value you get.

EDIT: I’ll point out one place it will basically always be worth less than CoE though: RG fights. RGs (and yellow elites) have stronger CC immunity than trash mobs, and in a long boss fight you’ll spend a fairly long time after CC immunity has started kicking in. So vs. the RG, you’ll both spend a higher proportion of time fighting after CC immunity has started kicking in, and the CC immunity the RG has is stronger, so you’ll get much less value from Frostburns vs. the RG. CoE will be significantly better vs. the RG in basically anything except speed rifts (basically if the RG kill takes more than 1 CoE cycle, CoE is probably better).

EDIT 2: There’s also some value in the defensive utility of the freezes. Which should also help a bit with Squirt’s uptime.

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I have pretty low crit chance. In one set up, it’s 21.5% crit chance and the other it’s 31% crit chance. Area Damage also fluctuates between as low as 116% to as high as 141%. Trying to find the right balance.

It does have a little trouble with RG’s as you note. Not too bad in a 130 but haven’t made it through a 140 to see how bad it will be against that. My top GR is 139 this season, so every time I attempt a 140, I’m fishing a good bit and haven’t had much luck with a good map and mob situation, so the testing is few and far between.

Something I noticed is it is really good against white mobs but has a bit more trouble with elites in 140, but like I said, I haven’t had much luck with a good map/mob GRift to really see if a white mob can make up for the slower time on elites.

I’ll try your “bounce between to packs” strategy when I get a chance and see if that helps with the elite problem.

Edit: I switched from using Single Out, since my crit chance is so low to Sharpshooter and seem to be dealing with elites much better in packs. Getting ready to eat supper, so it will be a little bit to get back to testing.

Edit #2: It takes about 3 minutes to kill the RG with the Sharpshooter passive. I missed the time by 2:20 on a subpar GRift. So 140 is definitely possibly. I only stuck with the GRift to see how long it would take to kill the RG.

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what’s the benefit of frostburns vs mantle of channeling? my strafe is on all the time and extra 25% DR is really helpful not to get 1 shotted by a random thrower from off screen

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It’s possible that Frostburn is nearer to CoE than folks think, meaning more damage than Mantle of Channeling while also offering a bit defense with more reliable freezes.

Pretty certain that CoE still beats Frostburn but if Frostburn is capable of 140+ then the difference isn’t so great that it isn’t worth it to try.

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that makes sense, i never liked coe’s timing game,… i wonder how it interacts with odyssey’s end

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Maybe I play the wrong way but with GoD I never think or worry about the CoE rotation. In your case it’s probably different because you have the Wolf companion and Odyssey’s End.

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I’m getting closer to getting a 140 done. Had to do some finagling with my build to increase damage and life. Lost some crit chance in some area’s for Life % to help my shield. Actually put 16 paragon (80 points) in Vit to get the Shield and Life totaled to be 1 million after that. Also equipped a helm with less Dex and Vit because it had Phys Resist.

Put my crit chance at 40% which seems to be a good middle ground. I’d like to use my ancient Frostburn with Phys Resist too, but I lose too much crit chance despite gaining Area Dam. I also had to go to D3 planner to figure out which Squirt’s I have is better for the build. Now that that’s figured out, I have an easier time keeping with the timer while killing whites. Still dealing with RNG giving me too many Wallers or Illusionists. Now they’re even popping out of pylons on me ruining good Shielding Pylon placements.

I’m dependent on Pylons to actually deal with elites, making it play similar to the way GoD used to before the nerf to NCS. Kill whites and kite elites to pylons hoping for a conduit or Shielding or skip elites all together.

Since it plays so much like GoD used to, it’s fishy as heck. But it means that I can do a 140 it just takes patience and lots and lots of keys. I’ll keep at it.

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I just did 128 with this setup. I did not get any nice conduits and barely made timer. Then, i did mantle setup and with better conduits I did it in 10 min. This really makes me wonder if rift/shrines locations and type of monsters are the ultimate differentiator and different setup maybe 1gr difference…

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Flavor of Time is about the most powerful item in the game with Krysbin’s ring of the Necromancer possibly being the only thing that beats it out. But doubling the time of Pylons is a really strong effect and can give builds abilities they might not have otherwise. I mean still has to be powerful in order to kill enough things to get the Pylons to spawn but Flavor of Time might shave off 2 to 5 minutes off a GR Push.

So yes, your assumption is pretty accurate.

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Tinne, one question about the CC immunity.

Doesn’t the mobs still count as frozen even if they are immune? I thought that I have read something like that, I would appreciate a clarification on that, thanks in advance.

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Unfortunately no.

There’s a few cases where the items specifically say “for 5 seconds after being hit by a freeze/blind” etc. But for anything that says “while frozen/blind/stunned” they actually have to be frozen etc. for the effect to apply. Once CC immunity kicks in the effect becomes much less valuable in these cases because you won’t have very good uptime on the buff.

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Ok cheers, too bad indeed.

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I would add another queston.
I run Mantel of Channeling instead of CoE. (I dont like it because I always ignore the cycle.)

Should I change to Frostburn or ist MoC superior because I always have the 25% more damage and 25% reduced damage?

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My true thoughts are play what you like to play. If playing with MoC is more fun for you, then run it.

I can say, more frequent freezes and the possibility of near 60% increased damage or near CoE damage while also getting some defense because frozen enemies can’t attack, you’re probably going to get near the same defense bonus from Frostburn/RoRG and MoC/RoRG. But possibly more damage from Frostburn than MoC.

But again, if you feel like you get more out of MoC that is reason enough to keep playing MoC.

But here is how it seems to shape up as far as benefits of the three setups…

CoE>Frostburn/RoRG>MoC/RoRG.

That said, Frostburn is probably closer to CoE than MoC is to Frostburn. But again, play what you’re comfortable with because your mileage may vary from others who play the same build.

Yeah, I know this all looks like talking in a circle but the math is too complicated for me to explain. I’m just not good at math. But from what I understand from people with much better understanding of Math, Frostburn is really close to CoE when it comes to damage while having some defensive benefits thanks to more frequent freezes when combat begins. While MoC offers a steady amount of damage and defense. Half as much damage of CoE but a constant 25% more defense which can lead to a bit more damage thanks to not dying as often.

So again, it all comes down to which you’re more comfortable playing. Each of the three items, CoE, Frostburn, and MoC lead to different strategies to get the most out of them so you may personally get more out of MoC than you would Frostburn or CoE, is what I’m saying.

Edit: I should add that there’s a way to get even closer to CoE with Frostburn when it comes to damage… You can, if you want to run HPS for the increased Element damage and NCS in the cube. It winds up being about a 8-10% damage increase but it’s vastly harder to play because it’s harder to keep Squirt’s up than with Fortress Ballista. I play with both set ups (FB vs HPS) and I personally wind up with more damage from HPS in some situations and less in others.

It’s just hard for me to tell which is better but I want to say FB’s defense is in most cases a bit more important. But if you like playing a “kill them before they kill you” style, HPS might be the way to go.

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Not an expert myself but if you use the the “classic” GoD setup with Bladed Armor and Gloom or Smoke Screen with CoE cubed you get the damage reduction plus the extra elemental damage (which is even a separate multiplier) and you can just ignore the cycle (apart from situations where you may wanna hide from a RG until the cold cycle comes up!).

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I just want to say thanks. I would never have thought to use Frostburn. I am a very casual player and I am having good success using Frostburn. All those monsters just freeze up, don’t hurt me too much. I am an ice cube litterbug!! :rofl:

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(To Tujunga). For more damage you could use Simplicity’s Strength instead of Stricken (Stricken only damages one monster at the time plus the RG).

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Thank you, I will make that change!

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I dumped Odyssey’s End. I got a very nice Eth with 146% but i just would not see the benefit of it… I went with MoC and FB because keeping uptime on squirts has been a HUGE differentiator.

Now, I do think that FB has more DPS than MoC, but MoC 25% dam reduction often helps with FB shield and unless you’re a superior player, who can kite very well, I feel that for me, MoC is likely close to frostburns than for others.

I have done 134 so far and I think i can get to 136+. If I was a fisher/grinder, I could get to 140+, I am sure, but I prob cannot get there unless my gems get close to 150

To summarize: (to me) FB offers close defense and more DPS than MoC but little harder play style

P.S I would still like to have little bit better rings and QUIVER… prob 10-12% dps there at least…

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