Rend and Whirlwind Damage

Barbarian
1

How do different weapons affect the damage of Rend and Whirlwind?

If I’m using 2 weapons in 1 hand each, is it the total damage from both weapons? Average damage of both? Randomly 1 or the other? Or does it just take the main hand weapon?

2

Damage alternates between main hand, then off hand, and back again.

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3

So wouldnt it be better to use a shield for block? And just use strongest weapon?

4

So every second hit does zero damage?

5

No it would not. The base damage would be the same but once you start hardcasting you cant get two stacks of manual rend from one weapon. There is also the factor that there are no good shields. None provide us with a valuable bonus.

6

And certainly not better bonus’ than we get from BK or IPB sword sets.

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7

Where does it say more weapons means it hits more?

8

See Chris’ comment above mine :point_up_2:

9

Doesn’t the manual Rend casts take only the damage from the main hand weapon?

10

Yes but in order to stack twice and benefit from lamentation you need two weapons.

11

It does mean that your main hand should be your weapon with the highest DPS?

12

Ok, so just to clarify everything that’s been said in this thread:

  • When dual wielding, and using WW, Rend alternates between taking its damage from your main hand and off hand weapons.
  • When hard-casting Rend, the damage is taken from only your main hand weapon. So if carrying two weapons, the one with higher weapon damage should be in your main hand.
  • When using a single weapon, for instance when using a sword and shield or a 2H weapon, Rend takes its damage from that single weapon, whether WWing or hard-casting.
  • When WWing, both your direct WW hits and your Dust Devils apply Rend, within 9 yards of your character. As a result, you stack Rend very quickly, and can keep up 2 stacks of Rend even with a very low sheet APS- like when using a sword and shield or a 2H weapon.
  • When hard-casting Rend, you apply it at your sheet APS, so, much slower than you do via WW. As a result, it is difficult to reach the 2.0 sheet APS you need to achieve max damage hard-casting when you are using a sword and shield or a 2H weapon. In fact, even when dual-wielding this can be a little tricky. When using IB, we clear the 2.0 sheet APS mark easily, but if using Ambo/Doom, we are at only 1.72 / 1.85 … yet another data point in favor of IB.
  • Hard-cast Rend procs Area Damage, while Rend caused by WW/Ambo does not. This means that when pushing, in good density, hard-casting massively increases your damage dealt.
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13

Thanks for clarifying Rage.

I never hard cast rend, I just apply with WW. It seems to stack fine with 1 weapon and shield. Like I notice zero difference in how fast enemies die. However, I survive a lot better with the shield.

14

One more clarification (which I’ll also add to my post above):

Hard-cast Rend procs Area Damage, while Rend caused by WW/Ambo does not. This means that when pushing, in good density, hard-casting massively increases your damage dealt. I talk about how much of the damage of a “high pusher” comes from AD in this post.

So, just spinning definitely puts a ceiling on how high you can push. But, some people just like to spin, and that’s fine!

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15

Just to clarify, Dual Wielding in D3 grants you an inherent attack speed bonus of 15%, which would translate into more hits.

The other big thing that I didn’t seem mentioned in this thread is that using a shield (or single 2H weapon) means you give up the 130% CHD from the 2nd emerald, which is a pretty big damage boost.

2 Likes
16

This x1000.

CHC and CHD act as direct multpliers to Rend’s damage. Missing 130% CHD is a big DPS loss.

You can push with a shield and avoid using hard-cast Rends for a long time–the build is very strong, after all–but as you approach the fishing threshold for your gear/skill/paragon, you’ll need to adopt the standard build for better, more efficient results (if that matters at all).

Check the stickied build guide for more info.

1 Like
17

Yes, good point about the 15%. Though keep in mind that for spinning, AS is mostly irrelevant (the exception being Stricken stacks), and for hard-casting, the benefit caps when you hit 2.0 APS- any extra AS beyond that isn’t really providing a benefit.

One of the benefits of dual wielding, and particularly using IB, is that it lets you hit that 2.0 APS point without doing anything screwy with your gear.

But IF you were playing spinning-only, and we were setting aside the 30% IB damage bonus, swapping an off-hand weapon for a shield costs you that 130% CHD from an emerald, but also gains you 10% extra CHC. Bottom line, it’s about an 8% damage loss.

On the other hand, for spinning-only, using a 2H weapon is a huge damage boost compared to dual-wielding: about +56% damage, even considering the lost 130% CHD. Even if you throw in the +30% from IB’s set bonus, using a 2H is still about 20% higher damage.

Of course, all that goes out the window once you start talking about hard-casting.

3 Likes
18

Not sure where all these shield advocates are coming from. Maybe I will go check icy-veins to see what kinda garbage they are pumping out lately. Hahahahah!!!

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19

Eh, who knows… some people like driving the long way home…

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20

This just means that you’re playing at too low a level.

Which there is nothing wrong with by the way. If you want to muck around with some random builds, and see how far you can take them, you do you, play the way you like. Hell, even come back and let us know how you get on.

But as someone who has been converted by the experienced voices in Barb forums, once you reach a certain point, the off builds just aren’t going to cut it.

Happy spinning!

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