@Micro, can I ask why you prefer loot/game options over different “realms”, where the options are static? I think it makes more sense for realms, because I’m hoping for other changes purists will object too, such as a balancing of skills, item tweaks, and most of all, Personal loot. I think a level playing field with across a ladder, particularly among always popular ladder resets, just makes the most sense.
Also, I hope you dont mind me tagging you in the thread title, I just don’t want to wade through a couple of hundred posts for our conversation, which I am looking forward to.
I think if we make total drops constant (single and multiplayer between personal and FFA loot), there will not be much difference in the item economy.
For solo games, there would be no difference whatsoever for the item economy, irrespective of the loot drop system.
Counterintuitively in multiplayer games, the personal loot economy will likely have slightly less high-tier items in the economy.
Although some play exclusively solo or multiplayer, I think a high percentage switch it up.
If it turned out there was slightly greater imbalance in the item economy in multiplayer games (by let’s say 5% due to FFA vs. personal) that what I anticipate, this overall difference is brought percent-wise closer to even for the item economy as a whole (but of course would not be even), since this item economy has solo player game items, too.
Any difference in the item economy that does exist likely will be insignificant in comparison to the change in the item economy due to the transition to modern battlenet. Battlenet should eliminate duping and reduce botting (I hope) so, the economy is undergoing a major change. In comparison, FFA versus personal loot is small potatoes in comparison.
Conclusions
Overall I do not believe that there will be significant difference in the item economy between FFA and personal loot. These could be separated into two distinct realm but I do not think it is worth it just based on what appears to me a trivial difference in item economy. As these forums illustrate, people are quite passionate about FFA and personal loot games.
I think that there is another “loot-agnostic” population that might like to switch back and forth for various reasons. It could simply be try the loot both systems out or just for game variety. I prefer to keep more options open (FFA, personal loot, or flip it up on a game creation level). Ultimately players will tend to self-segregate based on their own loot system preference but there is no need to enforce an obligatory separation.
Ultimately, I think drop rates of runes will have to be adjusted upward with D2R. PD2’s drop rate is reasonable. I would be interested to compare the two rates.
I would envision it working something similar to when someone opens a game to the public in D3. Instead of selecting rifts, greater rifts, key warden, or bounties, the game creator sets the loot mode. When others are searching for public games, you enter loot type that you want (like now where you select rifts, etc…
So he sneaks one run and people leave the next? Not the biggest steal in history.
I agree with this if they are to only ship one patch with minor adjustments to the game. If they decide to go separate ways regarding purists vs. new content/features defenders, I’d prefer they don’t include anything new at all in the purists servers.
I think the purists would prefer that as well. They just want updated graphics, and maybe gold pickup and shared stash. The more…unrelatable…purist might not even want those.
If at game creation, the D2R-loot style would be set for that game in perpetuity. If you wanted to change the loot style, a new game would have to be made.
If at character creation, it would be identical to hardcore/softcore and seasons/non-seasons now.
I already wrote in another thread before that the best case for Blizzard, if they want to seriously build up on D2R, would be to offer D2R for free as an upgrade if you own the old game, and make it purchasable and update it with content on the new Battle.net. That would make them far better profits long term.
However, as one of the D2R devs said there are many interests involved regarding D2R monetization and they aren’t aiming long term updates for it.
Alternatively, you could even make a $20 DLC for D2/D2:Lod (2000) for only graphics, audio, and modern battlenet. Separately, you offer D2R for $40 with lots of options.
If you do not want options and are are D2 purist with a legitimate copy, you save $20.
Not sure how hard it would be to program, but I could see both FFA and PL players running in the same group.
Example, 8 player group 4 FFA, 4 PL. Before loot drops on the ground, rolls are made to determine PL winners, if they win any loot they get it and the rest ends up up for grabs by the other 4.
Probably not ideal, just forming a PL group or FFA would be easier, but it still segregates the players.
I proposed something similar for D4 with trading and self found designations. Trading players have a drop rate of x and a base MF of y. SF players have a drop rate of 1.5x and a base MF of 1.5y. Both types can group up since all loot is personal. It removes the segregation of SSF players not able to group up.
I was thinking about your idea. Although probably technically doable, I might argue against it. All games have some percentage of toxic players. The advantage of keeping loot optioons separated at the game level is everyone in that game instance has the same rules.
If it was allowed to be mix-matchy in the same game, you have cases where the “good” drop ends up in the personal loot player or FFA player. I imagine that you would get alot of nanny-nanny-boo-boo trolling by toxic players as a result.
But that should be understood, or at least explained in the tool tips. I would have no issues with good loot going to PL players or PL players missing out entirely. RNG will continue to be the primest evil.
I don’t see Blizzard ever implementing “on game creation” loot. I suspect if we get personal loot, and we very much should, it’ll be characters on a different “realm”. By the way, does anyone realize that we’ll have at least two, maybe as many as four different groups of characters? Classic, Ladder, for sure, but maybe Resurrected Ladder and non-ladder.
While having Classic and Resurrected Realms makes sense if Blizzard starts to add more changes to D2R, shared and personal loot should easily be able to co-exist within the same realms of characters.
Blizzard in general should not be afraid of “splitting the playerbase”, but also no reason to split it unnecessarily.
Upon further consideration, I will concede you are probably right. HOWEVER, if they decide to make balance changes (and they really should), they might opt to do a separate realm for that (again, they really, really should) and it simply might make more sense for THAT realm to be only personal loot. I believe it would be a different game (obviously) but the core of Diablo 2 would be intact, in my opinion. You still have the dark atmosphere, the struggle and bosses. The same items, but maybe with different stats. The same skills, the same classes. It’s still Diablo 2.
But game options to change loot style upon creation should be technically simple. My only question would be then “will they add an option for displaying games with X loot type only?”