Black hole, Slow Time Bubble to gather mobs. Done.
we are talking about about one single Energy Twister that you can have active at a time, so you could not spread it over the screen like it currently works and you can not gather a whole screen of enemies into a single area with Black Hole.
Theoretically you can, but that would take quite a long time and in mayn situations that will not be easy to set up either…
So what we’re looking at here:
Old Wicked Wind: 835x5 = 4175%
New Wicked Wind: 3200x2+835x3 = 8905%
Additionally, 201.1 yd2 to 706.9 yd2 (or 3.5x radius vs old WW)
Proc scaler 3.125% > 31.25% (x10) not to mention AD manual cast effecting the entire 5x merged tornado now instead of separate instances of non AD from channeled vs AD on manual casts.
Is this really terribly underpowered? To me this sounds really good and it’s an overall Twister weakness, IE Valthek’s 400 > 700% or Twisted 150% per to 250% per and not to do with the new merge effect being weak or bugged.
Now if all Twister merges counted as Ragings we’d have:
3200x4+835% = 13365%
Possibly needed then, but again I’d use the word buffed not bugged. Up to interpretation and/or clarification.
I sincerely hope they allow corner/environmental stacking as it was on the PTR. This makes other runes viable. I personally have a greater concern for this over the damage of WW. However, both are important and should be corrected/fixed before S22 starts. Please read this thread Devs!!!
Can’t be arsed to fire D3 up, but I saw people mention 5 twisters merge? The patch notes still say 3 additional so a 4 twister combo?
My idea exactly.
I can confirm it. Tested it very thoroughly and my findings are exactly the same.
Seems they tried to fix the bug from PTR which caused to overwrite Raging Storm damage with Wicked Wind damage for all casted twisters, but they fixed it only partially - now first 2 Wicked Winds combined have Raging Storm damage, but the other 3 still have WW damage (should also have Raging Storm damage).
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The initial combine currently counts only as 3200%*1. Just tested this value in game to be certain.
Maybe more like:
- Old Wicked Wind: 835*5 = 4175%
- New Wicked Wind: (3200*1)+(835*3) = 5705%
- Any other Rune: (3200*1)+(1525*3) = 7775%
Wicked Wind shows ~36.6% increase over PTR damage, an average of 1141% weapon damage per twister (assuming a 5 stack).
Assuming other runes also work the same, these will be only ~36.3% more DPS than Wicked Wind.
So I might have been slightly off in my first test, but hey, it was just a quick test to see if damage had changed…
I think this is a nice increase to Wicked Wind damage as is, and would be happy to test WW at these levels.
I’m happy for WW, but i’m still super bummed we don’t have the option to run other runes. The Mistral Breeze playstyle is so much more engaging.
Biggest downside I can see for Wicked Wind is resource is harder to come by. This means less Aquila uptime, which also means less Squirt’s uptime, which also means the build now favors higher paragon players moreso than lower paragon, and requires more investment to have the required toughness necessary. So Sad. 
Maybe a total of ~3-4GRs difference between WW & Mistral when you take that into account. (EDIT 11/14/2020): Might be additional -1-2GRs from INT/VIT affix or AS/Twister% affix or skill swap tradeoff.
The consistency of Wicked Wind might make up for this difference, assuming Mistral could corner stack, or at least not disappear.
It’s at least in range now of being balanced between runes.
Again, Mistral Breeze, Gale Force; none of these will be options while Twisters still disappear, and for pushing, they’ll also require corner stacking to be competitive.
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Thanks for the re-test and that definitely makes more sense in to what we’re seeing. Hmmm, so really it goes back to this being more of an Area damage, proc scaler, and lag benefit than raw weapon damage %, which again I will say was likely the intent…not claiming to know lol.
Honestly that might be enough to make up for the gap, even on PTR I had done at 127 4man (without the OP Crusader in it) it was with like a DH or something and cleared in plenty time. Random case and bad comparison maybe, however I really don’t recall doing this with any other build besides Frozen Orb.
Yes the truly sad thing about this , and it’s what I was saying from beginning is now we only use Wicked Wind. Like you, I don’t like that, we already did that enough in vanilla 
I liked the variety on PTR from corner stacking…and if you didn’t like corner stacking honestly WW was enough.
And very good point about paragon because yes this basically forces reverse archon since DMO + WW won’t be enough damage. And that forces a lot of paragon and gearing to make work. I am betting though with current damage values considering area damage works for all Twister combo with a manual cast, sounds like it could go to 130+ but really high paragon, so I’m guessing if not 3k paragon you will struggle to even get to 120.
Not super impressive, but for solo not bad considering it’s meant to be a group thing. And remember in S22 we’ll have cube so Deathwish 4.25x and clone.
I highly doubt Blizzard will make it so all combined twisters do the 3200% , considering everything above you’d be easily looking at the next 150+ clear on 4 man since defense wouldn’t be much an issue there.
It would be really nice for the average player, but I can see some 4k+ paragon seasons really shredding with that. Currently though? I am making the optimistic bet that you could clear 140+ 4 mans with it, so after 4th cube and Deathwish it really should be 150 viable. Feel free to call me crazy I know I already am! 
Okay wait so instead of what everyone assumed and wanted: 3200%x4+initial twister rune
What about 3200x2 (since it’s 2 twisters for a raging x2 + 1) IE the original formula Lexy thought it was doing?
It only makes sense that it should do 3200%x2 + initial Twister rune %. And considering what other classes are doing with a 4th cube honestly it wouldn’t be OP.
If we don’t ask for this “fix” then the meta is likely going to be click two different twisters and separately combine them out of range of each other or stack as much AS as you can to get the second 5 stack going to get that initial Raging storm % boost…which sounds about 2x more annoying than stacking twisters ever was!
It definitely wasn’t enough back then, but I agree, it could be if balanced properly, even with corner stacking in the mix.
I don’t think this forces Reverse archon; but it might incentivize it more.
Non-archon LoD is still a very good build, but now even that build will require more paragons to balance toughness.
From the original PTR bug post here, my assumption is that the OP and others wanted a WW to match the other runes, in roughly a 1525%*5 = 7625% amount style of stacking.
I recommended an 1150% per stack average value, which is pretty much where we’re at now with Wicked Wind. I guess I got my wish? 
That’s not what Lexyu said in his testing; he was comparing values of a 2 stacked Twister using Raging Storm (5x Twisted sword multi) and they were about the same as a 2 stacked Twister using Wicked Wind (5x Twisted sword multi).
So, 3200% when the first two twisters combined for Raging Storm, and the same for Wicked Wind.
He also noted the difference between:
1 Raging Storm cast (5x Twisted Sword Multi): ~102 damage in his test; representative of the 1525% weapon damage.
vs.
1 Wicked Wind cast (5x Twisted Sword Multi): ~56 damage in his test; representative of the 835% weapon damage.
EDIT: Ah, I see here what you meant:
I think he means 2*base rune damage when saying “2x Raging Storm damage” in the statement here. So, 1525% combined = 3200%, as specified on Raging Storm rune. There’s the disconnect.
If you watch the video it is more apparent.
Thanks, Lexyu, for posting your testing! 
Doubtful I think, would spread your damage and pixel pulls too much. The overlap / venn diagram of Wickedness would be a lot of damage though. 
More likely, and yes, Wicked Wind is insanely inconsistent compared to the other runes now.
The other runes that 2nd twister in the stack is a minor blip on the radar. For Wicked Wind it’s “one small step for Wizardkind.”, so, pretty friggin’ big.
Optimizing for 7 or 12 Twisters out at minimum is probably a nice advantage for WW.
After thinking more on it, i’d have preferred if they just changed the rune damage of Wicked Wind to 1150%; this could stack up to 5 times. That would have been much more simple and visible.
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I’m really annoyed that they removed meteor from Etched Sigil. I loved playing Firebird’s meteor build, in spite of the fact that the FB set still sucks!
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Actually, I really hated Meteor builds. I was starting to explore a few different channeling builds having nothing at all to do with them (I had a neat ice build I was working on). Maybe they were never destined for high GR, but at least they weren’t the same-old builds everyone else was doing. With the change to Etched Sigil, all of that experimentation goes straight out the window.
With all of the non-legendary legendaries (those without a unique affix), on top of those legendaries without a viable build (the list is quite large), removing flexibility from one of the few items we can use was the absolute last thing we needed to have forced on us. Look at Gears of Dreadlands: That set has multiple options for weapon/offhand. Why do this to the only offhand which gave flexibility to LoD/LoN Wizard builds? Just to kill channeling Meteor? Does the term “collateral damage” mean nothing to Blizzard?
It’s not like they can rely on the excuse of “players weren’t using those alternate builds”. That logic doesn’t fly when you consider the sheer volume of items that aren’t used by any build, regardless of class. Players aren’t using those. Why are they still there?
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I’ve completely forgotten to mention:
Wall / Corner stacking doesn’t even allow for full coverage.
You’re up against the edge of the terrain, so you only get benefit of a portion of your Twister Radius (often only half of the area) dealing damage at a time.
Granted you wouldn’t always be using the entire area of Twister to DPS with, but this has to give some advantage to Wicked Wind on open maps with dense Trash. EDIT: Speeds this might not always be the case; benefit from this aspect would be lessened there.
In my previous post, I estimated ~3-4GRs difference between Mistral Breeze with Corner stacking enabled on last iteration of PTR, versus Wicked Wind as of patch live (now), favoring Mistral Breeze.
Wicked Wind is much easier to use. Most players will undoubtedly make better use of the CoE cycles than vs. Mistral Breeze, where corner stacking in time for CoE is sometimes difficult.
Why is corner stacking still not allowed, when this will only further even out the damage of Wicked Wind as compared to the other runes?
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Probably because end-damage in this case is supposed to be close (WW easier to use but nominally does less damage while other runes do more damage on paper but are harder to keep on target to extract 100% of their damage)?
Blizzard, can we expect this bug to be fixed before season start?
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@Lexyu or anyone else who might know:
Does Wicked Wind + Raging Storm proc Area Damage?
I heard there is or was a bug about it, but I don’t have the latest info on that.
Can anyone briefly fill me in on this?
Thanks!
I hope meteor doesn’t read this. Poor guy 
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Don’t worry, I don’t think he plays Wizard so he’ll probably skip this thread.
Yes, talking about myself in the third person was for deliberate effect.
Blizzard, could you comment on if twisters will despawn after ~1 second after hitting a wall during Season 22. Also, have you looked into the bug discussed on this post and will it be addressed before season start? Thanks
You do expect a blue answer? oh lord, don’t get your hopes up too high