I am not sure how someone can mumble when they type. The topic was about the fact that the PTR did not include changes to necros and DH. You decided to post when a poster said that DHs were screwed longer than any other class.
You argued that barbs had the least number of patches where they received something. When that was proven wrong, you claim that barbs went the longest without getting significant buffs. You also discounted the historical composition of the 4 man meta.
Also, other people have noticed what you have done.
If you only read the barb forum, you might think that. If you read general discussion, you will notice a more nuanced perspective.
He said that it was 4 of 8 patches since necromancers were released. He did account for that. He also only counted buffs (not nerfs so you are wrong in the quote below)
Could you provide an example? Remember for my tables, I give the source of the data and how it was analyzed. If you want to use Nev’s quote as fact, then you need to explain how 5K paragon witch doctors lost 10 GR in their solo clear potential due to the pandemonium buff.
Not entirely. Yes my thread it is about DH/necro getting less patch treatment; however, the 4 player meta does matter. In the past it didn’t matter as much, but now with the paragon system being so high and the difference in GR solo farming vs group is so big that the meta matters for everyone. DH has been the worst in the meta for a long time and Necro has been in the meta, but thats also not suprising considering that the Necro class was designed and made long after ROS was released and the necro was suppossed be in the second expansion. That is why the Necro has done well in the meta. The class was designed around todays system, all the original classes were not. Even the crusader had a slightly better design, but it still wasnt designed for today’s game.
Today’s game has changed so much that its impossible for blizzard to rebalance every class to make it work, which is why they should be doing minor tweaks here and there for all classes instead of new sets. Honestly, they designed items to work with existing sets, and since that didnt workout for them to they turn around and go right back to making more sets instead of attempting to fix the ones already created.
With each new patch blizzard should always attempt to fix bad items/broken outdated items with small incremental updates like power increases ect… They dont have to be to the level of how they normally do it, but even a 15-20% bump wouldnt be enough to break the game. This is why they should give patch updates to all classes with each patch.
Necro needs love more than the DH for one reason and one reason only…paid content. I also believe that is the main reason why necro is in the last new set patch, because they need to do it right. DH as well, in terms of doing it right.
Oh a barb poster! Have to be someone that is providing true and fair statements and is not pushing untrue barbarian agenda trying to shut everyone down who isnt suporting the barbarian master race.
Well lets just take a deeper look at what were the posts.
So lets summarize the entire debate partly and than lets look at your statements.
The debate was original about necro/dh beeing hard neglected by blizzard.
the Feeling of posters that this patch had to be dh and necros time to be buffed and reworked because even due to blizzard own post they are the 2 weakest classes in solo pushing and progression/power
DH beeing out of meta for very long time due to neglect of blizzard.
Than lets look again at your posts
As non barbarian masterrace player i would summerize your statement like this:
No your statement is not true, barbarian were more screwed than any other class. Demonhunter was very good compared to barbarian. Our class only become strong in any way after the recent ww rend patch. So pls dont post untrue statements.
Is my Summary correct, Master ?
So lets have a look at MicroRNA again
So lets summarize his statement again
It is not true that barbarian were more crewed than any other class in the game.
Is my summary correct or is it against the Barbarian master Race Agenda ?
My Results are plain and simple.
You have agenda that is not in favor of facts but in favor of barbarian.
You dont care much if your statement is true or not.
only point you care is that even if you are favored never to admit it. The best way to achieve this is to create story of your neglection and your weak status, true or not doesnt matter at all.
Whenever something is in your favor you can accept something even if it doesnt make sense at all.
I mean you basicly derailed the whole topic which was about necro and in this case primaraly DH to just write your wrong agenda that barbs deserve everything because they were the most poor individuals of all by far.
After that accusing someone of derailing the topic is highly biased.
I never seen a more obvious attempt to shut someone down without having to worry to find something that proves that his statement is not true.
I mean it is like the 20. time i have seen the argument with the blizzard data. But so far no one could explain why WD drops because of seasonal buff 10 lvs for example.
Conclusion: I am not sure what barbarian are trying to achieve with their agenda.
On topic
It is a shame that especially demonhunter wasnt strong overall and was not in meta for long time. I hope the long waiting time will result in nice buffs for all dedicated demonhunters to have more fun with their maincharacter/ prefered playstyle.
Where are you getting that description for caltrops?
Vengeance not only gives damage, but DR too (when using the dark heart rune).
Vengeance is also tied into the UE set too (6 piece).
A more elegeant solution, instead of stuffing around with a bunch of skills, is to simply decrease the cooldown for vengeance so that dawn is no longer a pre-requisite for the weapon slot in the cube. It’s a very simple change in the game code. Would take a few seconds to fix if that.
But the point is that if the number of patches don’t really address the issues of the class, meaning that the quality isn’t there then it is just a token patch which changes nothing.
Now give the DH and Necro a few good strong quality patches and no matter how many patches in total all classes have received the problems won’t be there if the issues of the class are handled. Otherwise you would have to have every other patch in the future only about the DH and Necro for a long while till they at least catch up in number to the other classes then when they catch the highest class the barb then it must mean that something in those future patches must be for all which would be very hard for a classic team that no doubt has a lot on their plate to accomplish.
All of the quantity in the world wouldn’t fix a set if they don’t really tackle the issues of the set. I know that they wanted that set to be all about fire and rising from death like the fiery phoenix. But in reality they didn’t come close. I say that the Firebird set should be about buff fire skills and giving damage reduction along with a higher resistance to fire. Maybe even a temporary fire absorb after casting skill x. But they went the route of goofy game mechanics instead.
I am just saying what their purpose is and why it might be a bit better. Because that way you are not having it where players are just dancing on the keyboard to win. Mindlessly spamming buttons till they either win the fight or run out of resources.
Plus there is that other thing that I mentioned as well. What is the difference between having a cooldown on a skill for about 2 minutes. And having a skill that cost a ton of resources that take around 2 minutes to get back to be able to use that skill again. The result is the same. You will still be waiting around 2 minutes to use that skill. The only difference is that you are waiting for resources instead of a clock. But the end result is the same it is still 2 minutes.
Yes this is true if the ones were looking for D3 to be a prettier clone of D2. if that is the quality then there is something wrong with them. Quality that I am talking about is changes that actually solve the issues that the players are having with the classes the way the game has been designed. Instead of crying over spilled milk of what others feel it should’ve been.
How many changes did the Realm of Trials go through? Did the sheer quantity make them so great that they are a great feature. Oh wait they removed it right. I do believe that Blizz kept trying to fix it when it just wasn’t possible to fix. Some things are just not fixable and some things should’ve never been added and Realm of Trials is just one of them.
According to that link I showed the Crusader is only in a little bit better position than DH.
Who knows the DH set might’ve been slated to be added in 2.6.8. But due to problems with the set and one of the other classes sets being almost ready to go they decided to switch the DH to the last patch.
I’d have to check, but Cru has done a 150 GR on PS4 (SC), and DH a 138 (rapid fire LON). That’s a substantial difference. I’m playing HC this season, so haven’t paid a lot of attention to the SC LBs to be honest.
If you have done your research you would notice, I have not posted on the Barbarian forum.
You would know that, I am not a Barbarian main either in game.
You would know, I am only known on the Barbarian forum cause I advocated for them to change them.
So instead of flashing around with lies, how about you do some research about me.
Go into my profile, see when I have posted and about what.
I don’t have any agenda, other than saying what is right.
You talk about derailing, yet I am not the one lying and spreading false statements, when those are not true. Whom is the one derailing, when you begin an argument just to lie about me and what I have stated?
Yeah, you might need to rethink this one.
And no one on the Barbarian forum is as hurt as you on here. No one in there stated that other classes should not get anything and neither spreading lies like you and the one you defend, Micro, that spams false tablets around.
You seem convinced the there was some “table” that was posted in the barb forum that was proved wrong. Please quote it so we can see the evidence and why it was wrong.
What is clear to me in this thread, you have been given fact after fact that you refuse to accept while deraiking this thread.
To me, it is clear the you have accepted the ongoing misinformation and disinformation campaign that has been used to support an agenda.
Please provide facts about me being wrong then.
Please provide me evidence that you believe others in here.
The ONE guy that had anything going was a false list.
1, necromancer was not even out in most of the patches he listed. Hence the number of patches it recieved will be lower.
2, the patches does not show if the class benefits from anything. It could be a nerf, it could be an item removale.
And lastly, MicroRna is known to spam false tablets in the Barbarian forum. He then proceeded to ask around on the same section about things he has previous stated he knew everything about, then why ask.
And furthermore, he vanished when the discussion was over and he lost it.
Suddenly shows up to lie about what I have stated.
But go on, let me see the evidence. Everyone can post a list, does not make it true.
I say this in the most polite way to anyone feeling the length of poor class power determines the order in which it should receive buffs. Both classes demonstrate this was never a metric for when and who received a buff.
It doesn’t matter who was screwed longer – DH was weak when I began the game in 2016-2, Impale and Grenades had brief moments of being decent.
But I live in the present, and right now and DH is a weak class by today’s standard, it’s particularly evident in meta and non-meta groups, DH is doing like 10% of the overall damage – they tickle mobs and they’re most beneficial as zDH.
I think we all can agree, hurry up and buff the Demon Hunter class already.
Let me make one thing clear, also to the rest reading this.
I have not stated anything about which class recieved the most patches.
I didn’t write about “these classes should NOT get anything”.
I advocate for all classes to be somewhat equal in both solo, group, pushing etc.
The only thing this discussion was about was which class was screwed the most. And some Barbarian mains wrote a post about it, explaining how long they’d recieved nothing and/or nerfs/removale of gear.
One guy posted about Dhs being the most screwed class, I told him no, it’s Barbarians, then came along 3 others lying about what I write about.
And yes, I think every class, every legendary item should get buffed to the extend of : let us have all damage skill abilites have a viable build so we can get more builds for each class.
You are the one who said table guy was wrong. You need to provide the evidence. I will provide evidence to show a few of your errors. You claim these tables were spammed. Link or quote one of these tables.
First, point 1, the necromancer patch data says it was 4 of 8 patches (50%) since its introduction. Therefore, your claim tgat the necromancer numbers were skewes by inclusion of earlier patches is wrong.
Point 2. The person explicitly stated that only buffs were considered and not nerfs. You are wrong again.
Let me refresh your memory since you apparently, don’t bother reading in here.
The ONLY thing I wrote about was : Dhs not being the class being most screwed.
That’s it.
Not about how many patches each class has gotten or anything.
Another guy posted a list containing which class has gotten something from each patch.
I then wrote “this is not about how many patches a class has gotten, but how much they have recieved in order to make it better and/or changes they could benefit from”.
The case with MicroRna is 2 things in this thread.
1, He wrote : “you argued that barbs had the least number of patches where they recieved something”.
No, I wrote about “patches where they have GOTTEN something relevant”.
That is 2 completely different things.
Furthermore wrote: “discounted the historical composition of the 4 man meta”.
That is an entire other debate.
Being screwed and forced into playing zdps in a hackNslash game. Yeah, that is still not what the subject was about.
Many Barbarian players don’t want to play zdps.
And the 2 case. He was discussing a lot on the Barbarian section on this forum.
He was proven wrong again and again, kept going even though people with more knowledge explained everything to him and why he was wrong.
He then vanished from this forum, just to show up again, spreading more lies and only here to argue against me cause I did the same when he was wrong.
I refuse to read about people spreading lies about me and what I have written here.
MicroRna is known to stur people up just to argue against them.
I don’t want people lying about me , not here, not anywhere.
You need to retead your posts in this thread. They are not consistent with yor interpreation.
You still have not given any examples of how someone was wrong even though you claim it was over and over again. It should be very easy if you are right.
There are multiple people in this thread pointing out their problems with what you say. It is not one person. Posters were questioning you long before.
Go read this thread then. I have quoted the places where some lie about me here, you are only here to defend MicroRna even though he blatanly lied about what I have stated. It’s right here:
Why should I repeat myself? Go ask Free or others on the Barbarian forum, he is known to lie and spam tablets of no value since they were proven wrong.
Sounds like you jump the vagon of going againt me more than knowing the truth.
I never wrote about how many patches some class got nor talked about the meta.
Also to those reading here. Your profile is hidden, just like MicroRna profile.
Micro is the Devil’s Advocate. He’s going to get everyone to think twice, even if it’s unpopular, he’ll find an anomaly and report on it even if it goes against common sense. Sometimes he puts out some substantiated info that is good for the community. A chart is not always needed to make a point, and some people just get worried that chart format is going to convince people that his opinion is the truth.
I don’t think he has a malicious agenda. He can share his opinion and we’re able to share our own.
Personally, I don’t hold anything against the guy – just disagree and tell your reason if that’s what you believe in.
I know him from pre ww buff on the Barbarian forum. He was discussing with everyone, spammed lists over and over again. He was proven wrong in many encounters.
He was seen, asking about things, he has previous stated he knew everything about.
And again, I don’t want people to lie about what I have written and making this into a larger argument than it was.
The only matter I was discussing was, Barbarians are more screwed than Dhs, cause they had recieved nothing in many seasons, had even an item removed, nerfed some sets etc.
It was also proven by Free, one of the well known of the Barbarian class, that is has gotten nothing for a long time.
MicroRna turned this into a "
Cause that is an entire other matter. It’s a hackNslash game. Barbarians were left healing and tanking, gathering mobs for other classes to hacknslash down. Not to it themselves.
That is an entire other/larger subject than the first one was= derailing even more and lying.