PTR Rend; Devs did great & Careful with your feedback

Barbarian
184

You can use both builds to push.

The version you’re talking about has Orb of Infinite Depth which is also 80% mitigation just like Karini.

Why are you people trying to act like Chantodo Vyrs is NOT an incredibly powerful solo push build? What’s the point in lying about how powerful it is?

You’re disconnected from reality if you don’t acknowledge that Chantoro Vyrs is the most consistent, powerful, and easy to gear solo spec.

Both variants of the build want CDR on gear. Which is really not hard at all. Gearing for max CDR, 0% Attack Speed (except weapon) and 0% Area Damage is very simple.

You’re lying and bending over backwards to stretch the truth if you argue that Vyrs Chantodo isn’t mobile, powerful, and extremely competitive.

1 Like
185

But OID 80% reduction works only out of archon and first a few setting of archon and only very low range. And when archon ends you start without any stack of OID and a few second out of archon you are without dmg reduction too and stacking is very dangerous. Kariny is entirely diferent (is not problem 100% uptime).
Even 10k+ paragon players use dex/str gem instead of int gem to higher tougness. With low paragon is it problematic.
Did you ever try Vyr variation with OID?

186

Pretty sure this is correct.

Absolutely agree with you on the power, and the incredible consistency, of Vyr’s. Where are you seeing the 146 clear, though? From looking at the Chinese leaderboard, which aggregates all the other leaderboards as well, the highest Wiz clear I see below the 148 LOD Starpact is Darkpatator’s 145.

187

Which max GR do you (both of you) with OID variation? Kariny variation is not capable 145 NS clear even with 10k+ paragon).

Kariny variation is easy to play (OID variation not), before nerf is powerfull, but not that high like top clears.

I imagine consistency differently:

  • Impale DH is consistent (not fishing) build: I can clear -1GR from my max with 90% succes. That is consistency.
  • With Kariny Chant. Vyr I have 90% success on -4GR from max (for max push is big fishing, with OID variation even bigger) and without heavy fishing (with heavy fishing for max I can clear +2GR higher and than will diference -6GR for 90% success clear)

Many other builds need heavy fishing, but Vyr too. Impale not (heavy fishing with Impale is max +1 another tire)

188

Well, sure. Impale DH is the most consistent build in the game, because it deals a lot of single-target damage. But Vyr’s is fairly low on the fishing totem pole, too, and of course it’s got a considerably higher ceiling.

189

Sure but “heavy fishing range” for Vyrs Chantodo builds starts way later than most other builds.

When does Vyr need to fish? 140+?

Because Barb needs to start fishing at 126+… top Barb clears are… 132… 133…

133’s are an absolute joke for any Vyrs build. :joy:

See my point?

To claim that Vyrs is not powerful in comparison to everything else is crazy.

Vyr Chantodo, either push spec, is single handedly the most powerful solo push build in the game right now. Only Thorns or StarPact comes close, and those are way fishier.

2 Likes
190

Barb on live is underpowered and need buff, thats way fishing to ealry.

133’s are an absolute joke for any Vyrs build? Realy. Your max with Vyrs build on NS without season buf.

My paragon 3800 NS. Actuall max GR with Karini variation GR132, but with good time (same rift I will clear GR134). Near 100% succes on GR129.

I am not best player, but not bad player. If I compare Karini variation with EU (where is most clears with Kariny) season. They have on top higher paragon (5k+, that is +1,5GR), I have not yet perfect gear like them (is another +1,5GR), I have not 150 gems (DPS 140, augment 130, all leveled solo), that is another +1GR. And season buff around +3GR. Together +7GR.

Max clear with Kariny on EU was Brokens GR140 (now he has GR145 with bazooka). 132 + 7 is 139GR. With same condition it will be on top 5 clear. Thats not bad.

And 140+ need fishing? 140+ is only heavy fishing with high paragon and max gems and perfect gear. Higher (142+) with all that and only with OID variation (on NS).

I need fish from GR130, here I am able around 1 of 7-8 attemps. GR132 was around 70 attemps.

High paragon like darkpatator (10,5k+) could have 100% success with Kariny variation with perfect gear and 150 augments around GR136.

All prenerf.

That is your claim. I have never wrote that prenerf Vyrs isn’t powerfull (it is powerfull build), but you have overated imaginings about it.

Close? Bazooka with GR148 is +3GR ahead over OID variation of Chant. Vyr.

All 3 builds will get nerf (bazooka, Chant. Vyr, Necro) which is ok to have at least some balance.

0% lamentation nerf is too much (I have wrote it already), but with 100% lamentation I don’t see problem competing WW Rend on top 1 clear (and maybe could have it).

But idealy situation will be not nerf WW Rend (200% on lamentation), not nerf Chant. Vyr, slight nerf Bazooka, slight nerf Necro. And buff other builds.

191

I started talking about Vyrs as possessing no weaknesses because someone above said Rend should get nerfed due to it being fast, powerful, and rewarding. The argument was that there are no builds which fit that category, but there are: Vyrs.

192

Fast is UE MS. I can’t compete with my Vyr Wiz. on super speed GR and T16 with my UE MS. UE MS is much faster with big difference.
Builds has equally speed around GR100. For lower GR I am much faster with UE MS. For higher GR I am faster with Vyr Wiz.

With UE MS I have on lower GR (GR85) several attemps under 1min (best under 50s) and average 1:15. With Vyr Wiz. it is impossible.

Vyr Wiz. need big effort to 1:45 on average. Thats way I don’t use it for clears under 2 min.
But ofcourse is not bad with Vyr Wiz., more builds is not that fast on lower content that UE MS.

UE MS is fast…

193

You aren’t understanding the context of the conversation.

When he said “fast” it doesn’t mean the build is like a T16 or GR100 speed farming build with full movement speed everywhere.

The argument was that there are no GR builds which are at the same time: fast, powerful, rewarding.

Multishot is not fast or powerful in a GR push setting, at all. It needs to stop to kill things and its damage is not top end like Rapid Fire.

The original claim was that 2.6.7 Rend needs to be nerfed because it’s fast, powerful, and rewarding in GRs, and that no other build is like that. For GR100s sure. But at GR100 everything works.

But in the context of GR pushing Vyrs absolutely is like that, and has no weaknesses.

No one is making comparisons to speed farm builds. UE doesn’t fit all 3 of those in a push setting at all.

You can’t say you want to nerf Rend because it’s fast, powerful, and rewarding and at the same time be OK with things like Vyrs or Rapid Fire. That just doesn’t make sense and sounds like anti-Barb bias.

If the argument is that the game can’t have GR builds which are fast, powerful, and rewarding at once then you have to nerf everything.

Raekor HOTA
RF DH
Vyrs Chantodo
Rend Barb
Darts WD

All of those fit all 3 of those categories.

194

I agree with that…

195

Okay well this is what I was replying to originally

He was trying to justify the Rend nerf

196

That’s all they have left.

Clutching at straws because their argument is bad, based on nothing but thoughts and feelings, and no evidence to support it.

197

8 Likes
198

My favorite so far lol

4 Likes
199

So much fun. We should find funny ways to relay the message a bit I think

1 Like
200

There is a tide in the affairs of trolls, which always leads to a barb nerf…
(Shakespeare)

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201

I got a reminder in how accurate this initial post is when pushing last night to try to clear a 116 before S18 ends. The current state of WW is just absolutely wretched and not fun. Let’s have a quick rundown:

  1. Being locked into one specific set of gear is not fun.
  2. Being locked into one set of skills is not fun.
  3. Having to fish for one or two specific maps to build a blob of density is not fun.
  4. Having to pause every few seconds to let lag catch up after having achieved said blob is not fun.
  5. Doing all of this and still being in the bottom tier of clearing potential is not fun.

The current state of WW is absolutely miserable and the changes they implemented fixed all of these. Hopefully there is another round of PTR testing or they simply leave their initial changes alone, they absolutely got things right for a change.

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