I’m hoping some mechanics experts can help me understand how Simulacrum gains damage from Ledgers Disdain when swinging grim scythe. When I tried this build a while back we needed to slot Singularity mage to dump essence, because Ledgers Disdain only gave a damage buff based on the amount of essence generated.
Now I’m seeing a version that drops Singularity mage and yet is still able to benefit from the phylactery even when at full essence/no essence generated. I’m stumped on why it works.
Thx for any help!
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i wonder about this too.
Rob did a 4man GR as trashclearer and had nova skilled instead of mages like everyone else… Never got an answer to this.
I just know that theres something wrong with the simulacrums using this and ledgers but i have no indepths knowledge aswell 
On the 2.6.9 PTR, simulacrums ignored level of essence. They were always treated as having the Leger’s disdain multiplier for Grim Scythe damage, regardless of level of essence.
This means it’s probably more efficient to position your simulacrums well, and always spend time attacking, rather than spending time dumping essence, in longer term dps scenarios.
Results in:
- 4 attacks from simulacrums over 2 attack cycles with full multiplier
vs
- 3 attacks sims + player per 1 attack cycle and 1 cycle spent with mage essence dump
It’s simply a dps increase, assuming Simulacrums are positioned well.
The only reason I included mage in my LoD Scythe speed build was that there are some situations where if the sims are out of position, dealing damage myself is rather nice to have as an option. Come to think of it, that build also has Briggs pull, which scales Leger’s nicely with Krysbin and density, so it makes more sense to have higher cyclical, bursty (short term) damage than constant damage.
EDIT (6/25/2020): Considering my post below, I can definitely see Essence dumps becoming more appealing, considering that the difference of average damage to minimum damage base for the simulacrum’s damage is at least 12% damage loss (for both simulacrums). However, I’m not sure if this amount is enough to overcome the additional attacks gained vs having to action an essence dump when engaging prime, dense rift scenarios.
I’ll consider dropping mage for any group and solo push builds, but I’ll be keeping mage for the more bursty, lower density, solo speed and high gem leveling type builds.
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Thanks for info 
i thought so but never actually knew it
Anyine test to see if it still holds true on live?
Thanks for the responses. It seems as though there isn’t a logical explanation. Many are acknowledging that it works but nobody understands why.
For some reason, Simulacrum-casted Grim Scythe changes the definition of Ledgers Disdain to “Grim Scythe deals an additional XX% damage for each enemy hit.”
Kinda annoying that Blizzard tries to slip this major change through without mentioning anything in the patch notes. A legendary power now has an undocumented core mechanic change only when casted by a minion. I don’t really care if builds are powerful or weak but I do care that the logical rules of the game are respected. A build’s power should be sound and defensible when tracing the multipliers and mechanics.
Bazooka wizard was not mechanically sound (channeling bonuses cannot be active during archon form), and neither is this version of grim scythe. These builds actually bend the rules.
Got it covered. Testing below. Editing my opinion in my post above (ever so slightly).
https://cratic.net/269-simulacrum-legers-disdain-grim-scythe-mechanics
Biggest nugget:
- Simulacrum Grim Scythe attacks with Leger’s Disdain + Haunted Visions are based on Minimum weapon damage range.
Also:
- Confirmed Simulacrum’s always benefit from Leger’s Disdain multiplier. (more on that below)
EDIT: Continuing:
- Simulacrum attack speed scales with your own FPA / attack speed breakpoint.
- Simulacrums can critically strike. This means each hit from a simulacrum has a chance to CRIT separately.
- Simulacrums can proc area damage.
- Simulacrums do not benefit from Enforcer (legendary gem) damage multiplier.
- +Max Essence (paragon or passive or Reservoir rune) does not change your Grim Scythe damage value or your Simulacrum’s Grim Scythe damage value.
- For the player’s Grim Scythe damage, Leger’s is pure bit logic based on if the player is at max essence or not.
- If current essence is not equal to maximum essence, Leger’s is applied as a multiplier.
- If current essence is equal to maximum essence, then Leger’s is not applied as a multiplier.
- Simulacrums are always allowed the Leger’s Disdain multiplier, even if the player is at full essence.
So why should I not use Mage to drain my essence cuz wouldn’t I be doing more damage than the Sims?
Probably because they outnumber us 
and we still have to cast the mage dump which takes up time that could be spent attacking.
For less perfect / lower density, I’d run an an essence dump. For really nice density I’d still run no essence dump, because higher density means your own essence pool fills up quicker --> more mage casts required to stay at less than max essence --> less swipey scytheys.
The ~12% isn’t enough to entirely change how we approach this, but it will affect how we approach gearing and it will have us second guess at what GRs we should and should not be running an essence dump. How much attention you want to spend on positioning of Sims can also be a factor.
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There also seems to be the question of when does a Sims damage cap out. If leger’s disdain provides a simple yes or no check on the number of enemies as if they were generating essence, it should by far out scale hero damage in massive density. If there is a damage cap, the value changes drastically depending on if you can increase it via augmenting your essence pool or if it is hard-coded on what value that happens.
+Max Essence does not affect Leger’s Disdain multiplier. This holds true for both hero and simulacrum Grim Scythe attacks. EDIT: Just updated post above to list this.
However, in regards to how much Leger’s Disdain multiplier can benefit, I did not check if there was a maximum cap to the multiplier based on # of enemies hit.
As far as I know currently there isn’t one. If anyone knows more about that, please let us know.
Thanks for your testing!
This was the focus of my original post. To me the essence-generating condition is the defining feature of Legers Disdain. Simulacrum ignoring the essence condition is about as logical as hydra ignoring the Paralysis condition and freely proccing Manald Heal.
Most welcome! Glad to help. 
It feels like the more you dive into d3 mechanics, the more seemingly arbitrary things you find. 
Unless a hybrid Mage / Scythe playstyle is viable and competitive, I think I’ll prefer the Sims as they are now, with ‘always on’ Leger’s. I’d feel better if spending essence had more purpose, and if you think about it, there still are reasons to run an essence dump even with this wonky mechanic in place.
To explain:
There’s an issue where the number of Mages summoned is less than expected when when you have Haunted Visions and Circle equipped, and both Grim Scythe and Skeletal Mage on the bar. It’s so sad because there is actual room in this build to hybrid. 
- Blood and Bone + Skeletal Mage (unruned), no Grim Scythe on bar = 6 mages per cast
- Reservoir + Skeletal Mage (unruned), no Grim Scythe on bar = 4 mages per cast
- Blood and Bone + Skeletal Mage (unruned) + Grim Scythe (unruned) = 2 mages per cast
- Reservoir + Skeletal Mage (unruned) + Grim Scythe (unruned) = 2 mages per cast
Anyways, I’ve gone off again. Tangent time! 
I cleared a GR130 using my old Inarius poison scythe build with the new Haunted Vision instead of LOD. The Inarius DR buff is pretty significant, and not having to worry about dumping essence all the time makes the build much more fun to play.
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At a glance, it looks like Inarius Scythe gives up a Jewelry slot (to fit Kalan), and the potential to hit higher AS BPs, and one Nayr’s stack, but gains a legendary gem (Trapped). Not as bad as I’d thought.
However, there look to be more options for Krysbin procs with LoD.
Inarius could be the better option earlier in season for Scythe push. The extra secondaries on gear would be nice to have too.
i just got an ancient Leger’s Disdain with really nice rolls but only at 77%. is that worth keep it? how much damage will i lost for that 3%?
I also have a 77% roll, where is my 80% Primal Ancient? so far I got no Primal Ancient from the LordFluffy build.
You will do more damage if you dump your essence but to your simulacrums it makes no difference. In the scenario where you don’t dump the essence you have 2 sims doing max damage and you less and on the scenario you dump your essence, you have 2 sims doing max damage (again) and you as a third source dealing some damage. Obviously it is more damage if you drain your essence but it is not going to destroy the build if you don’t, cause the majority comes from the sims.
Sims only attack when you do.
You hack, they hack. You stand still, they stand still. You cast Mages, they stand still.
Assume you have 2 attack speed. If you hack 4 times then cast mage once, overall, you and sims did 3 x 4 hacks within 2.5 seconds or 4.8 hacks per second.
But if you hack 5 times, with the 5th doing little damage (essense full), overall you and sims did 3 x 4 + 2 within 2.5 seconds, or 5.6 hacks per second. IN this instant, you did 0.8 less hacks.
BUT if you spam mages more frequently, you’d realize you’d be doing far less DPS.
The tradeoff is, your shoulder wont give your the DR when essence is full
I am so annoyed by how my essence always gets full and it can get from 0 to max in just 2-3 slashes since the generation benefits from the Sims slashes, as well…
This makes the Legendary effect useless on melee champs who don’t spend much essence! 
The legendary armor which makes you tougher when main resource is above 90% is great for surviving higher GRs btw.
Are Simulacrums still benefiting the Ledger’s Disdain always? It seems so IMO, because they appear to be dealing more melee damage, but not 100% sure.
