Just want to mention that EVERYTHING in your post has been said a million times since d3 launched, and continued to be said through RoS release, and current day.
You have countless people who agree with you, so hopefully that’s good to hear, but you should know literally everything you said has been mentioned or asked-for more times than anyone can count.
Keep in mind, as long as Activision holds the reins, D4 will never be the dream ARPG everyone wants.
People had a problem with every Diablo game made. Guess what… It will be the same for D4. No one thinks the same and there will always be complaints. I loved all the Diablo games and as they progress the next always has what the others didn’t, however they all get old fast. Let’s hope D4 lasts 10 years too.
The PoE map system is a fresh steamy pile.
GD map isn’t procedural.
D2 DoH is still the best procedural layout from these games.
What we saw from the D4 gameplay until now is that the map randomization will be similar to D3, which is super bad, especially for a game releasing in another generation of technology.
I think much of what you are referring to is the dungeon layouts, which stopping to think about it, I am not sure we have seen much of any dungeons in Diablo 4 yet.
D4’s overworld is a static layout, but dungeons are randomized. I agree with you and hope that D4 has more complex and maze like dungeons, akin to D2 and PoE. That doesn’t mean we need every map to be like that, but having a linear cave with a circle in the middle is not my idea of an interesting or complex map. I agree that some of the maps in PoE are very good and reminiscent of Diablo 2 for sure. Chamber of Sins is one that comes to mind.
Whether they were final or not the drowned area dungeon looked to be a simple cave with no branching areas, which is fine if there are variety. The one with the fallen looked to be more like a WoW raid, a path to a central location with 4 wings, one with a boss, and all dead ends I believe.
Personally, I don’t need branching paths that end up going to the same ace all the time. Can tell you how semi-frustrating it is to go in one direction only to loop back around to one of the other pathways I had a choice to take, only to take one of the remaining ones just to go back to the original path because of that one little nook ended up being the exit, or finding the exit, with 80% of the map still to explore.
Sometimes a more linear path with some dead ends are better. However, variety is key. As for the overworld, it’s a wide open map. It has roads, that some seem to be confusing as linear paths and topography onnthe mini map that others seem to be confusing with narrow paths. I’ve seen plenty of vids and the overworld doesn’t seem to match the map design some have issues with.
These are okay in classical RPGs, but in action RPGs dead ends appearance should be as minimal as possible.
A possible next gen development of dungeons would be endless maps, such that no matter what way you take there is never a dead end. Such mechanic strengthens the immersion and also kills cheating tools like map hack.
Dead ends are good tbh. Essential part of exploration.
There jut have to be rewards for such exploration. Sometimes finding a chest, a random event, mini-boss etc.
Make it worth it/efficient, to finish a dungeon 100% vs. just running to “the end”.
In a classic RPGs like Baldur’s Gate dead ends are cool since you go and traverse the map more times, but that’s not needed in aRPGs since it kills the action.
A-RPGs should get closer to those roots, including roguelike roots. Of exploring every nook and cranny.
It doesn’t kill the action, it might slow it down. Which is fine.
Dead ends can represent action. Again, by having mini-bosses, events etc. “hidden” away in the corners of the map.
That content would be optional to do. But those who did it, and explored thoroughly, might end up better off than those who just ran/teleported through
There are two main issues with D3 areas that don’t necessarily appear in the same places :
Sadly, the two of these aren’t even exclusive, with the towers of the Damned/Cursed being prone to both for example.
Maybe you could help the discussion by clarifying what you dislike about it?
And, just to be clear, we are talking about area layouts, not endgame systems.
Was talking about D4.
It doesn’t slow it down. It completely kills it when you have to walk back due to bad map randomization.
You slow down action by forcing the player making tough choices regarding character development, item acquisition and quest completion.
So, you think the way to improve an action game is by reducing the frequency at which action occurs, i.e. for it to have less action in it?
It doesn’t take long to get back to your path especially as there will be mounts. I know you won’t be able to use them everywhere but Diablo has always had dead ends so they should stay.
Fun for some not for others… plenty of things not just dead ends you can say that for. I guess we have to get over things to please others.
Are you aware how many hundreds of posts regularly screaming for maps that don’t dead end?
The boys want a railroad track!
I understand what you’re talking about, but there are more players in the game that don’t want that!
I’m fine with a few maps (mainly rifts!) being that giant open map loaded with density that is not an automatic “find myself at the next portal” kind of map.
To be able to spend the entire T16 Rift on an open map start to RG is sweet.
All RPG’s follow the vegas gaming system of rewards, map, gear, curency etc.
This is how they keep us coming back for more.
All depends. I doubt they will be usable in dungeons/instanced content, which will be the majority of endgame PvE content, most likely. In the over world dead ends won’t be an issue since that is for exploring not really dungeon crawling. How often will enemies respawn? If they respawn rather quickly, say you work you way to a dead end, start back tracking and halfway back you have fresh mobs. Well at that point you mount is useless since enemies dismount you automatically(aside from any buff that may grant dismount immunity).
Less action is still action. You don’t need to be killing or attacking something every second you are out of a safe haven.
As long as they don’t respawn on screen i’m not bothered and if they do it will be disappointing but i guess i would get over it.
If I give you one meal a day, or one meal a week, you’re still getting fed.
Which would you prefer?