Please revert Chantodo nerf. The non-season “world rank 1” Wizard can push 143 max, which is a way behind the potential of other classes. Reverting the nerf will grant +3-4 tier, which means the current rank 1 can push up to 146-7 max! The max 146-7 is considered okay if you think about the potential of Scythe Necro, CE Necro, Rend Barb, & GoD DH, etc.
I have made a suggestion regarding vyr and chantodo a while back that if done properly I believe can give vyr at least two distinctive playstyles.
If implemented these changes can not only preserve vyr chantodo archon, but also give us an archon variation where the archon skills themselves are the main damage dealers instead being stack builders. That said, I don’t expect any attention to be made to vyr or archon this season, especially since they didn’t touch on firebird.
Please revert Chantodo nerf! Or buff Vyr Wiz! Add more diversity where players can compete for a spot in meta. Vyr Wiz was an awesome Trash Kill build. Now hardly anyone plays that build. I honestly think I havent seen a Vyr Wiz in S21 at all. We need more diversity in this game please. Stop destroying builds that your playbase enjoys playing!
Totally agree that Chantodo nerf should be reverted and rolled-back!
Even after Chantodo gets its original power, it won’t be OP anymore because it cannot get 150 solo in non-season. There are already many classes who can reach 150 solo in non-season nowadays.
Last time I checked seasonal LB Vyrs was actually 1 with like 140 clear. It’s still viable for pushing and in “their” range for what’s good. As far as I remember, it also had to do with not being intended to scale like it did which was a bug that was fixed and neefed it at the same time. Like the WD SB big with pet damage %.
Edit: it’s 136 on season LB #2 now.
Oh I should’ve specified better, what I meant to say was that I haven’t been in a GR push group with a Vyr Wiz in S21 at all, and I’ve played with a good amount of different players this season. I know there are still a few players playing that build, just pointing out that the population of thier builds/kinds are very small. Havent seen a Vyr Wiz in any of my games for a loooong time.
The rationale is, 140 clear is not enough comparing with other classes. Let’s compare Chantodo with other classes more detail.
The skillful 10k non-season rankers can push:
- Wiz (Chantodo) 143
- Monk (TR) 145-6
- WD (SB) 146-7 after nerf
- Crus (HF) 146-7 after nerf
- Barb (Rend) 147-8
- Necro (Scythe & CE) 150+
- DH (GoD) 150+
In this situation, it okay to give Chantodo’s original power back because it will grant 3-4 tier boost, which will enable Wiz to push up to 146-7.
Very well could be. I said it in another post before that I don’t see reverting Chantodo doing any harm as far as power. I never liked the play style of any wizard except when LoD hydra came along (which is now gone) but also not opposed to letting the wizard fans get back into it. Then and monks have been bottom feeders for a while.
Ya, well we all know that Blizzard isn’t balancing anything around the 10000+ paragon players. They are aiming to balance around the 3000 paragon mark in non-season. Vyr-Chantodo does just fine. The end goal of the game isn’t 150 solo, it never was. Once the developers get everything fixed in the next few patches, you’ll see that too. 150 was never suppose to be attainable in the first place.
LoD hydra is even stronger now than it was before
Not what I’ve seen unless you have 8+K paragons. What’s the wizard PTR LB look like and what’s the highest LoD thus far with what paragons?
I’m not playing PTR, I’ve just been watching Bludd and when he ran through both typhon and LoD, Typhon was a lot more powerful. LoD was tougher per usual but the damage was way too slow for the 110 he did with both hydra builds. He sat his paragon at 800 with 100 gems though and mentioned LoD might be a contender with very high paragon.
Chantodo’s only needs approximately 150% ish more damage. Seems easy for “Winter Flurry” to increase damage taken by Frozen enemies (would also work for Frost Nova, and Arlyse and Magistrate builds) by 150%, and that would fix VYR as well as Hydra/cold build.
Win-win-win. This is the ONE CHANGE we need right now.
No, it is not.
Even for 3000 paragon accounts, Vyr Chantodo is not selected because it is weaker than all other classes. It is problematic that all other classes are +3-7 tier stronger than Wiz (Chantodo). Chantodo got -3-4 tier nerf, so balancing by reverting nerf should be okay considering the relative weakness of this build.
I think this will be a good idea. Winter Flurry can buff skills other than Hydra such that:
- Enemies killed by Cold damage have a 25% chance to release a Frost Nova. Your Hydra, Meteor, Archon (this will include Chantodo Wave) deal 125-150% increased damage for 20 seconds to enemies who are affected by Blizzard.
Vyr Chantodo can use Winter Flurry in Kanai instead of Furnace. Meteor build can replace ES as well.
I agree with your idea.
meanwhile I2A6 crusader is clearing 150 in every 10 maps.
There’s no point bringing up the sader as everyone knows it’s going to get the nerf hammer and usually that ends up being a 20+ GR nerf. They also nerfed ivory tower which didn’t need to be right now as there are other classes with more or the same clears. Wizards, monks, and barbs have the “lowest clears”.
I am apprecited with your detailed suggestions. It will be good if Vyr-related build can utilize either Chantodo wave or Archon abilities. Build diversity brings an enjoyment.
Agree. The leaderboard table show how Wizard is relatively weaker than other classes. Chantodo Wiz is 3-4 tier underdog vs. Rend/TR and 7 tier underdog vs. DH & Necro, which signals a warning alarm of balancing problem. Now it is okay to bring Chantodo’s original power back.
I agree that. Thank you for summarizing the non-season top clears.
If other classes are also balanced around 140, everything will be fine. However, other classes are balanced around 145-8, but only Wizard is balanced around 140. It is inconsistent. Please nerf topdogs or buff underdog for a good balance.
10k’s max potential determines 3k’s max potential as well. For 3k, Vyr Chant is not okay because it is weaker than other classes.
This will be a good option. Thank you.
I2A6 Bomb will be adjusted on the PTR.
Where do you get this number from? EU non-season (so, no seasonal themes) highest wizard clear is 143, barb 146, monk 145, DH 150, necro 150. Cannot estimate crusader and WD, both had 150 clears prior to nerf but era did not reset.
150% (x2.5) is 6 gr, which would take chantodo to op territory, despite losing furnace (maybe -1 gr due to auto-skip juggs and longer time on guardian?). I would be happy with just reverting the 4/7 nerf, which was exactly 3.5 gr (or, on par with top clears barb and monk). Another important point on the non-extreme pushing chantodo build: pre-nerf it had the bugged squirt, so the total loss due to the nerf is somewhat lower since squirt was fixed on the same patch.
More in-depth analysis with more clears would obviously help, but don’t forget these are not normal distributions - they are top 1000 out of an unknown number of clears. Obviously, the flavor of the month would have a lot more clears and top 1000 would skew upwards.
TL;DR: take back the nerf and all is good on chantodo. Focus all feedback on our crappy sets and on etched.