As long as you know that that isn’t a real argument. As it requires blizzard to put in actual resources to stop botting and the leveling system has nothing to do with that. As for party grinding. that is a design choice. If it’s something they want they will put in designs for it, like they did in D3. It may destroy your personal play, but once again, it’s a design choice that doesn’t change based on whether paragon is infinite or finite.
My issues with the infinite paragon system is more personal, I suppose. I don’t want Blizzard giving me a pat on the bum and slowly boosting my power if I am having difficulties, but ‘put in the time’ for a participation reward.
I want a game that rewards on skill, not how many hours I can throw at the game. The paragon system as it exists now rewards players based amount of time thrown at the game. You gain power without an increase in skill, which is not how I feel the game should be run. You can just throw hours at the game, gain enough Paragon that you can brute force a difficulty, move up a difficulty so I get higher xp/drop rates, and just throw hours at it without really improving and still gain paragon to continue brute forcing the game.
The game should encourage an increase in skill as well as creative gameplay choices that don’t abuse exploits/glitches.
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true and untrue, because elitist players and teams will be 50 times faster than you and complete any content in no time.
-this must be solved first.
i played World of Tanks for 6400 x 15 minute PvP battles
-there i agree.
in Diablo, i seek lore and mobblasting, without challenge.
-it depends on my mood wich i prefere.
If they’re going faster than me, it could be that they’re better than me. That would be reward based on skill instead of time. This is good and sparks joy.
Yet I can sit in GR 100 for all it matters and throw my character mindlessly at the game without even attempting to get better and still gain paragon until I can brute force a win. This is not good and does not spark joy.
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there’s only one thing that could be bad:
-if the game COULD be enjoyed, even when you’re not skilled at average level, then all is fine.
-i’m thinking at playing solo here, where i’ve fun for years now.
-but how many games have that to offer to low skilled players.
-like me getting stronger slowly at the same 2 levels T13 and T15. 
Here are the three theoretic main progression systems:
https://tinyurl.com/s5fq7qb
Linear scale
Every new step is similar to another, it’s still an unlimited scale unless capped
Asymptotic
Every new step is smaller than the previous one, but it’s a finite scale and it is always capped.
Logarithmic
Every new step is smaller than the previous one, but it’s still an unlimited scale unless it’s capped
If you like my comment, please read and comment my thread where I breakdown the artstyle of diablo4’s demo. I gave it a lot of efforts:
Hmm… I think, given how we both view this, we’re inclined to agree to disagree, as we’re both looking for something different in an ARPG.
Perhaps Blizzard can find a means of a compromise between them.
I agree with you there, I’m finally getting tired of D3 since they announced D4 so I’m breaking away from the game and not worrying about getting all my augments in the triple digit range.
There are several reasons D3 is dead, one of them being infinite paragon.
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An infinite system can be in real ingame situation finite if:
- it is unreasonably too long to reach the next level. (in d2, 98 to 99 takes months if not years) Level 99 to 100 could take for example 3 times this amount, and so on and so forth.
- if character gain get smaller and smaller
I sincerely think level progression is intimately linked to itemisation which must be as horizontal as possible. Because with too much verticality nothing is balance-able anymore. So I’m not against an infinite system only if in practice, it’s actually too hard and finite and comparable to a asymptotic system.
I think ,a very hard logarithmic graph that mimic an asymptotic system would be a solid system
https://tinyurl.com/s5fq7qb
I really like that i can grind for more levels after level 70 and spend the Paragon points on different charakters. Only grind for gear is boring if your char is in a good spot and there would be no paragon so what? its the end of the game then.
D3 Paragon system was perfekt we players on NS can grind to infinity and seasonal players that like start all the time from scratch can do this every 3-4 month. PPlease keep that its nice.
Im for infinite scaling. I want to get rewarded for the weeks,month,years i put into grind.
I have to say that would bug the crap outa me.
To have something with a cap but to never be able to reach it would be infuriating, it’s why I find hitting paragon 800 so satisfying, because you get everything to a 50/50 and it looks a lot cleaner
In ARPG game this feeling might persist for a lot of people when they reach max level and let’s say they are farming gear but they gain no XP.
So blizzard could make leveling/paragon or whatever its gonna be called finite and very hard to reach, like last levels in D2 :DDD Not everyone will reach that and more likely start a new character.
Yet, if they decide to go max level, good luck 
PS. In any case, I wonder how come can someone say that it feels like a waste of time when even if not the XP you gain gold, mats, runes, rares, uniques basically loot. This is a little bit beyond me.
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If it’s logarithmic they might as well use a asymptotic system similar to D2 and PoE. Seasons will already eliminate the need for a infinite system with a logarithmic curve.
I don’t even know then, they should definitely remove infinite STR, VIT , DEX or whatever. But what could be other things that could improve with more “paragon levels” lets call it that for now.
I doubt that it is perfect mate. Especially the botters were abusing it I guess as I’ve seen a lot of posts regarding botting. To say the truth I never cared about people who bot and what paragon level they are. But I understand why people were upset and how it affected leaderboards.
But anyways, infinite stat allocation is nowhere near perfect. Blizzard didn’t know how to make a better system so they went with infinite system…
Nop, It’s nowhere near perfect or creative.
Agreed. No more infinite leveling.
Finite leveling = balance actually becomes a possibility = build diversity can truly shine.
ARPGs are about the loot hunt, not about gaining paragon point 5,192.
If you spend that much time grinding, you should have the gear to try out any build you want. That’s the reward.
If the devs screw this up and go with an uncapped paragon system, I hope they remove character stats from it completely and just make it a grind for unlockable cosmetics or something.
We should be able to finish leveling our characters. The true hunt should be for gear, whether it’s perfect stats or the ideal items to build something unorthodox.
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I would also sign for asymptotic system (like it’s impossible to reach speed of light, the more you get close to it, the more exponential energy you need). It’s a proven system.
The infinite system? it’s not entirely bad. There is infinity and infinity.
If the next high level requires 4 more time than the previous level. It’s in practice not worth reasonable to farm more, and it’s comparable to an asymptote. The advantage of this is that there is indeed no in-world reason to prevent a character to improve, but huge amount of time for minimal improvement.
D3’s infinity is linear. It is just simply bad.
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The game doesn’t need to have infinite scalling the current issue is that the game just gives you everything way too fast, you spend way too little time looking for upgrades (items) and preparing your character.
This initial fast early preparation phase, simply forces to the existence of the later grind for paragon.
Also, I really don’t like the current “as long as you play long enough you will beat it” mentality, difficult content should be beaten by playing better, not by just rubbing your face long enough into it until you grind more paragon.
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Yep, they could truly do that. Have some attributes you level up to a certain point and then after that, unlock some cool cosmetics, badges, statuses or callings whatever they are called :D, maybe pets whatever.