They should have a server that allows bots and hacks, make it the true real D2 experience. Rushes and bot runs only, it’s true D2. Make the personal loot server for those who want to kill demons together in groups, y’know, actually playing the game. Those idiots, right? The game is only for elite teleporting seagulls, anyone who actually wants to play the game is dumb. Only exploits and grief or get out. Keep D2 the same as before, it was perfect for not playing the game.
1 Like
You are at it again aren’t you ? Stop talking about percentages that mean NOTHING. Yes, a leecher would get 12.5% of the loot on average with personal loot. No, the < 12.5% or >12.5% statement is simply blatantly false and you are feeding that argument. I’m really tired of completely destroying your arguments everytime, but if this is what it takes to get you to stop shaming yourself, I’m willing to do it.
Indeed, it was already shown previously, but you didn’t listen : the loot variance here can be quite large and it WOULD have a negative effect on how people will perceive the drops. Now it’s your time to calculate it with a meaningful example. I’ve fixed all your maths on several topics more than enough. You should know the probability distributions involved in all the examples that were brought up by now. And even if you can’t prove (or maybe even define) the variance, at least wikipedia will tell you the formula for you.
Now, without even dealing with maths, your argument falls apart as soon as you talked about things like pickit. You are assuming cheating and/or hacking will be part of the experience, but it is not expected to be, so there is no point in discussing it further.
TL;DR
Personnal loot = NO.
topic closed.
1 Like
TL;DR
Personnal loot = YES.
topic closed.
2 Likes
These “debates” are getting nowhere. If you look at the main posts reply activity its always the same 2-3 people who are in favor of Ploot posting 5x more than everyone else trying to have the last word and keeping these threads in a never ending cycle.
Read the writing on wall.
too slow fingers to get loot buddy?
get good lol
lol literal same thing to you, it’s always the same 4-5 super hardcore fans who say they’ve been playing D2 for 20 years and to not change it
you don’t represent the hundreds of thousands of people who will buy this game, and Blizzard knows that, it’s why we’ll get plenty of QOL changes
1 Like
Is that not also the same few asking for personal? same argument can be made, it would change 90% of the quick rush helping I would do, by that simple change you have completely changed D2 game play.
Whether or not this effects your individual game play style is not the question, this remaster has always been about changing minor things, upgrading graphics and UI and stopping cheating, but now you want to change the whole loot system.
Personal Loot and Shared loot just cant exist in the same game because there’s too much to balance and its too easy to figure out what is the optimal preference choice.
If total drops in a game are the same in personal loot(instanced) and FFA loot, personal loot is instantly garbage and not the preferred play style. For anyone besides a leecher the benefit is useless outside of the 12.5% chance in the less than 1% cases a boss drops something of exceptional value. Not being able to see 5x the drops in FFA is not worth the low chances you get assigned something godly.
If at any point something fixes this and Personal Loot game drops more than a FFA game to satisfied those who played this mode the opposite is true. Now Personal Loot games are the preferred way to play the game since the game is now dropping more items. You would just tell your party to look out for the items you want that aren’t competitive.
A timed loot system doesn’t really do anything but allocate best item drops to someone. This could be argued “fair” but I see it as purposeless. If the game allocates the Tals Ammy drop to the Amazon vs the Sorc the person in that game won’t call it “fair”
If the Tals Ammy is picked up first by the Amazon since it is free for all, that would also be sad for the Sorc player.
Except there are games where they do coexist and are balanced.
1 Like
Except there are games where they do coexist and are balanced.
Yes but if you haven’t noticed or acknowledged the unique circumstances D2 leads too, most games don’t need rushing as much as D2 does. You can argue that rushing is bad or not needed but I extremely doubt you will self level more than 2 characters with no rushing help from anyone. I would run constant baals or rushes and have full crowds constantly. This was Diablo 2, whether or not you choose to acknowledge it.
You need your new guy in Hell and no friends are on, you won’t get anywhere the same response as before, your gauranteed now to take the XP, rush, and drops when close, hell I’ll do my best to keep you away from certain monsters now. Like this isn’t I simply go to personal and nothing about D2 changes.
Yes, you are correct in your first response. That’s why I said the change is purposeless. It doesn’t do anything.
Your second response I have already explained countless times and you just do not seem to understand that. D2 is game that was release with a certain expectation of drops and loot. The things you would need to do to balance this, would mean you need to tune the drops.
If you read my original post and critically think, you would get that. Either its same amount of loot as FFA divided by 8 which very few players who understand this would choose, or you somehow tweak drops where either more or less loot drops in a personal loot game vs FFA.
The optimal choice between these systems is obvious. Like I said assigning vs not assigning accomplishes very little as you play the game longer. The optimal choice will always be at that point the mode that drops the most loot per game.
Yes, it will hurt your ability to find uncontested items if that system is personal, but you just trade for those at that point. You could also just make “shared loot cows” or something to find items or solo
What people fail to understand is that personal loot doesn’t necessarily mean more loot drops. You can divide what is dropping between however many people in the game, without needing to increase the drops.
I’ve played more d2 than probably 95% of people on this forum, I started playing when I was 14, and I am currently 34 years old. Tens of thousands of hours played, countless characters on classic, hardcore, LoD, private servers, single player. I love this game. The argument that I am trying to d3’ify this game because I am a casual is ridiculous and untrue.
The reason personal loot is a plus for everyone is that you can focus on the killing. Currently, when playing in say a baal run, you have to focus so hard on the loot dropping that you don’t even watch things die. Now instead, you can focus on killing, then check the loot after. What’s the reason to have the beautiful graphics if they are covered by walls of text that just show loot on the ground in such abundance that you can’t even see what is happening.
People that desperately don’t want it, will very quickly realize that it doesn’t actually matter, and that not having to watch a leecher run up and grab a HR will never happen again. I love running chaos runs, and constantly host them for leechers to come and gain levels while I can farm in a high level game for drops. Helps me, helps them. But no, I am focusing on creating a smooth run for all involved that I missed a Ber rune drop for a second, and some leecher runs up behind me and snags it then leaves the game. Fun? I think not.
The only problem that I do see with a situation like this is that if a Ber does roll to drop, it would really suck if I have a 1/8th chance of getting it due to random chance. But also, if you control by who got the killing blow, only the most geared of chars will ever see the loot in a public baal or chaos run. So it’s a toss up on how to actually control it.
I don’t think personal loot will end up in the game. But to think if someone doesn’t want to be slamming alt, and holding alt like a madman, only staring at drops when in a public game makes them casual… I don’t know what to tell you.
2 Likes
Primary although I disagree with you generally, you do have to understand most people arguing for personal loot do not sound like you, or use the reasoning you did in you post.
You also sound like someone who would understand you are seeing less drops in order to get your personal loot.
The issue that happens in these debates is people misrepresent what Personal loot will or wont do. Some of the things they claim it would do could only happen if drops increase.
If personal loot is introduced as you said, it would make playing Solo EVEN MORE SO the more optimal way to get items. That’s fine, if that’s what you want, but I think its a bad decision.
With the fact that diablo 2 resurrected will be supporting mods why is anything even being asked about after that or even commented on if they add something you don’t like just make a mod to remove it. it’s just that simple.
I dunno my spider senses are telling me this debate is kept going so they can get personal in, nothing in these replies accounts for how D2 was actually played, sure these improvements could work, but you are altering so many facets of D2 without even debating how it will effect them.
It feels like console will have personal loot, much harder to control your directional control with a gamepad, and without good clicking ability the frustration level of console players will skyrocket, but maybe that’s why they aren’t including crossplay. If you do console/PC cross play the PC player in a shared loot space would always get it.
If they do FFA and personal servers I am okay with that, but you start mixing those two types without accounting for easier botting or increased drops, or rushing, or loot allocation based on effort to actually kill, your just making this game different… all because in baal runs you might miss one loot drop from him that most people no longer care about.
EDIT: Alright a scenario for those that read this far. Imagine rushing, personal loots on, your 83, you pick up strangers from 40-70 to go through hell runs, figure gear them out. These changes make it incredibly easy for someone to bring in 1-2-3-6-7 accounts, set them to follow, and change any odds in that game. Hell just bring in one other set him to follow, he’s now 25% drops … you are not even scripting, just have the guy on follow, he’s close enough to trigger personal loot and easily change his odds. This now gives everyone and anyone the ability to multibox with little to no effort … no clicking to pick up loot fast enough on your many VM’s, just gotta watch the screen in case you missed it.
Do you increase loot drops to counteract people perhaps never getting rolled the drops in this new system, if so you made that multiboxer even happier, again with little to no effort now.
Mods will probably only work for offline play, as allowing mods online would allow things like maphack mods, autoloot mods, stat-changing mods, etc.
So it won’t fix any of these issues at all.
I mostly convinced myself throughout the post that if there were no increase in drop rates (i.e. Everyone got the luxury of a full game of drops specifically for them) that personal loot is a bad idea. Because shoot, I think I have better than 1/8 chance to grab that drop than not.
So unless you want to raise the overall number of gear that is injected into the economy (it certainly would not be 8x, but probably closer to 2-3x considering average game size) there really is no way to fairly divide up the loot from the perspective of someone like me who is never the leecher.
Should they be okay with the increased number of items coming in to the game to give more people the freedom to play instead of worrying about the drops so much because of competition? I don’t know.
The only people this would really effect is jsp traders because their idea of what a shako is worth is valued against something outside of the diablo universe. So the more shakos, the less fg. However, if I’m only trading inside of the diablo economy, a shako being worth a mal, there are more mals, and more shakos to the point where it mostly evens out so nobody would really know the difference.
I just don’t think there is a fair way to divide the loot considering how most of the community tends to play. (A high level char or two does 95% of the killing while most chars leech)
I do think I have been convinced that it should stay as is.
1 Like
Don’t disagree with most of what you said here. Your thought process is what most people (who don’t leech) will come to if they don’t increase drops.
Whether its good or not for them to increase drops or not is just an entirely separate convo like you said.
I just don’t think there is a fair way to divide the loot considering how most of the community tends to play. (A high level char or two does 95% of the killing while most chars leech)
I would think that’s a bigger argument for shared, why is someone doing 95% of the work now losing whatever it was 87.75% of the drops in all situations he has people around him.
I can assure you in the long run the one doing the killing is close enough to get more drops, especially in hardcore where people die trying to be greedy.