Patch 2.6.8 Balance changes Nerfs/Buffs

General Discussion
228

Spike Traps… maybe. We did make a lot of proposals at DH sub forum. Wudi would like that :slight_smile:

DH is slow, and can’t pull in monsters on his own for area damage. That alone would keep him away from doing 150s solo most probably.

I did 142 in 2 man with Crusader friend after 2 keys. We had some luck.
As support DH I was taking more damage than he did. The amount of toughness Crusader has without Monk and Barb buffs is insane! That baseline 30% damage reduction for melee classes is nice.

There is no true ranged class in this game… We are all getting hit. That is one of the reasons why DH is underperfoming. RapidFire for example… you stand still… the is 0 ranged play with that build. Darkpatator had problem staying alive with RapidFire in 137s.

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229

Yeah AoV has insane toughness because it gets 50% DR from the laws + crimson, 50% from the set, and most of all, completely insane health regen with holy cause. When in density you can use your skill twice and get 30+% health back, you will have a hard time dying ~

I also agree that DH will have a hard time making good pulls, so maybe. But at the same time, bazooka isn’t that amazing for pulling (no blackhole/twister) and still manages, just need to fish for swarms… That’s kinda the issue.
Patator had trouble surviving in 137 because he was playing natalya if I was to guess. Ditching all toughness for damage, like I said earlier. If he was playing LoD, he would be much tankier.

As far as making spiked traps good… Good luck with that huhu

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230

I don’t engage in arguments about other classes. I don’t main other classes. Whatever is going on with Crusaders or Witch Doctors (just to offer two examples) is out of my wheel house. And because of that, I never suggest nerfs. I might, from time to time, agree with, or find interesting, an opinion that suggests as much, but my opinion with regards to D3 has always been very, very simple:

Buffs, not nerfs.

If Zodiac Rend is the strongest solo build (and it isn’t, but let’s just use this as an example), buff everything to that level (or as close as feasible). No reason to nerf Barbs, period.

If the Crusader community collectively wants a nerf to their class’s build, that’s on them. Then again, the opinions of a single expert do not necessarily reflect the desires of a community.

But you don’t. We discussed this ad nauseam in the PTR forum, and it was obvious after a post or two that you don’t understand the build’s underlying mechanics. You didn’t understand it then, and I very much doubt you understand it now.

I’ll certainly stop saying as much when you stop calling for nerfs. Sound like a deal?

As for darkpatator, frankly, I don’t care what he has to say, because he has flat-out lied to the community before. I’m not saying he’s a bad guy, and I’m certainly not saying he has bad intentions, but I don’t think his statements are the most trustworthy. I would liken his in-game accomplishments with Ulma, and I have considerably more trust in Ulma’s take on things.

This is why I can’t take you seriously: You don’t even check basic facts.

I don’t have 4k Paragon. I have 2k Paragon, and my non-Season 125 was, when I made it, one of, likely the, lowest main stat 125 clear on the non-Season boards.

Here’s something else you got wrong: Zodiac Rend is not squishy at low Paragon. It’s incredibly easy to stack plenty of mitigation: Mortick’s + Band of Might + Wastes DR. If you lack enough CDR for perma-Wrath, you can opt for Aquila in the Cube, or Unity until you sort out your gear roles. You can use Parthans or PoC in the Cube while you’re working on getting the correct items. The point is, there are a lot of ways you can make Zodiac Rend very, very tanky at any Paragon.

If you’re so concerned about low-Paragon players (which mirrors my own concerns), you’ll know this is another fact: Nerfs will hit low-Paragon players the hardest. Survival in Normal or Season is not the build’s issue. It is, and has always been, damage (at least until now when we’re right where we ought to be!).

I just can’t be bothered discussing this with you. Your arguments–like those of people asking for nerfs–are childish and ridiculous. Barbs spent years as trash and when we finally get buffed and are in a good place, some of y’all want to ruin the fun. That’s a big NO, Fun Police.

And that’s a big NO to the rest of the Nerf Herd. A few 9-11K Barbs are clearing GR 145 in non-Season.

So what?

Are y’all concerned about “powercreep” and “balance” in a 7-year old game with its sequel announced? Really? Tell me–and I’m serious, now, because I really want to know: How does the clear potential of Barbarian hinder your enjoyment of the game?

Because nerfing Rend is definitely going to put a damper on it for many Barbs.

Buffs, not nerfs.

Period.

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231

144 non season for barbs is close enough to their intended goal that they may not receive a nerf

Crusader’s are almost definitely getting a nerf.

232

Why would you want to NERF anything if players are having fun or is FUN not allowed

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233

There is what you hope for and there is reality.

This is what we know about recent D3 history in relation to game balance.

FACT 1: In patch 2.6.7, both thorns necromancers and a wizard build was nerfed due to how the current leadership of the D3 team has decided to the balance the game.

FACT 2: In patch 2.6.7, two underperforming classes (barbarians and monks) received buffs.

FACT 3: In patch 2.6.7, crusaders were also buffed (more specifically overbuffed).

FACT 4: In patch 2.6.7, barbarians were weaker than Blizzard expected.

FACT 5: In patch 2.6.7a, an overpowered crusader build was nerfed but not to the extent that the current leadership of the D3 team would prefer.

FACT 6: In patch 2.6.7a, barbarians were buffed (i.e. 100%-150% rend damage modifier on lamentation).

FACT 7: The current leadership has already indicated that crusaders are most likely to be nerfed in patch 2.6.8

FACT 8: Matthew Cederquist has posted Blizzard ideas on game balance that includes the use of both buffs and nerfs to balance the game.

None of these facts are in dispute.

Do you think that crusaders will be nerfed in patch 2.6.8 based on Blizzard’s recent history and these facts?

If I cared about a particular class and its community that falls within nerf range according to Blizzard, one might decide to advocate “No nerfs, only buffs”. An alternate and more practical strategy is to recognize reality and make the best of the situation.

From the PTR 2.6.7 data, the patch notes, and my knowledge of the game, I already deduced Blizzard’s new strategy to balance the game. Although I am a barb neophyte in comparison to you, I and several others accurately predicted the true power of ww/rend. If my suggestion from the PTR was adopted (i.e. a flat 100% rend damage bonus on lamentation) that subtle change would have made it less likely to have Blizzard undergo a correction.

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234

I don’t, but we now have a rule. 1-2 levels over performing is fine. 3/4 is iffy, 5+ is likely going to be reined in.

Non season barb is in the iffy category, non season crusader is well beyond iffy.

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235

Except the top barb has cleared GR 146 in non-season at paragon 9477. This era is less than 2 months old. There is a good chance that the top barb clear will reach even higher.

Rank BattleTag Class GR Time Paragon
1 风中劲草#5653 barbarian 146 14:51 9477
2 Crucifix#3350 barbarian 145 14:45 10327
3 Horasohn#2399 barbarian 144 14:13 7752
4 darkpatator#2265 barbarian 144 14:36 10988

Link to clears:

http://ranks.zeroempathy.org/e12.barbarian

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236

Which server was 146? I haven’t been on the game in a little while, so I was relying on the web leaderboards.

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237

Who cares if some Botter with 9K para acheived near 150 SOLO. That doesnt qualify NERFing something

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238

China

See:
http://ranks.zeroempathy.org/e12.barbarian

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239

I do not now if the paragon is legit or not.

Can you truthfully answer if you have read Matthew’s post on game balance? It turns out that Blizzard cares and Blizzard is the decision making entity.

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240

This question, and similar has been asked since the PTR, and I still haven’t seen anyone answer with their thoughts on it.

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241

The problem with that strategy is that it is easier for groups to clear high level GRs than solo players. So the problem with buffing solo players to make it so that they can clear GR 150 is that GR 150 would become far easier than now where there already are complaints about groups speed running GR 150. With the power creep that has already occurred, the top America region and EU 4 man group cleared GR 150 in less than 5 minutes. In the EU, there are more than 900 players who have cleared GR 150 in 4 man groups.

Personally, I would be OK with solo players clearing GR 150; however, it is not through power creep but you can modify monster hp by a slightly lower amount than the current 17% (for solo play only).

The thing is my opinion does not matter. Blizzard has already given insight into their balance idea. My suggestion is nothing but a pipe dream.

Remember that Nevalistis wrote the majority of the blog post before the holidays at a similar time to Matthew’ detailed balance post.

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242

That was a lot of words, most of which had nothing to do with the question.

There we go, problem solved for you.

There is one converted.

Next!

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243

No, it was not many words. To be precise, it was 185 words. The average adult reader can read ~200 words a minute. I used an online readability checker. My post was written at a Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level: Ninth Grade.

I carefully explained to you why buffing all classes to clear GR 150 solo is problematic without redefining solo player difficulty scaling.

You only quoted part of a sentence where there was a semicolon to qualify my comment that you quoted out of context. The entire sentence reads

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244

dunno why you are still pissin and moanin about crusaders doing gr 150 clears in season 19 they just kill trash better then the buff kill it faster.

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245

No NERF required. Minute S19 disappears saders wont be clearing that cause there will be no Seasonal Buff. Maybe NS might do it once someone with no life or botter with 10k plus paragon might clear it but why not 10k para is insane boost of DPS

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247

And so what , someone has to clear 150 eventually. Whats the point of having it there if NOBODY can ever solo it. Is it supposed to be only for groups… UM NO.
And how does someone clearly a Gr150 or a GR1500000 effect you. It doesnt.
I mean if its so OP just make the character yourself and use it to gear your others. Theres ZERO need to cry for a NERF , id rather see ppl crying for BUFFS . BUFFS make much more people happy overall

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248

It’s really frustrating to see people talking past each other.

The Devs have given us the formula for when they nerf things. Barb’s and saders both meet the criteria.

Whether you think their formula is wrong is a separate question, and separate topic, and isn’t what the OP is addressing.

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