If Blighter is fix (one more fix…), we have Bloodmaw
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Anyone who thinks Barbs need a nerf has lost perspective.
Barbs have been absolute trash for years: broken sets, outdated items, and builds that rely on gimmicks like wall-charging and ludicrous amounts of fishing. Now, at long last, we have a top-tier solo build–one, at least–and can play in off-meta speeds.
Barbs are, at long, long last, happy.
We haven’t taken over the meta, and we haven’t broken the game for anyone else. We don’t need nerfs.
All other classes, however, could use buffs.
Folks trying to use data and Cederquist’s posts (which were about Crusaders, mainly, I’ll remind you) to argue that Barbs should be nerfed have failed to look at the bigger picture. The game is much more than “data,” especially for casual players and Barb mains who spent years as the laughing stock of the game.
So, here is a better direct answer to the OP:
- Ask Necro mains and buff all their sets and items
- Don’t. If the developers decide to do this, that’s on them.
- No.
Y’all don’t need to play Fun Police and call for nerfs when historically trash classes and builds are suddenly strong. Want more diversity in meta and off-meta groups? Want more build diversity on the leaderboard? Want more intra- and inter-class balance? Achieve that through BUFFS, not NERFS, and make everyone happy.
Some of y’all, dang, just making me like:
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Free,
The topic of this thread is how to buff/nerf classes if Blizzard decides to do this. Please create your own thrread if you want to duscuss whether a specific class should be buffed/nerfed. The game producers comments on crusaders are unambiguous.
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No thread should ever discuss the want of NERFS cause the overall community and anybody really that actually plays D3 on a non casual level knows that once a build is NERF nobody touches it again. IE VYRS Wiz
Hey look there having fun playing this build. Better NERF it… UM NO THANKS
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Nah, bro.
No nerfs. Been over this a million times. Threads like this which promote the idea, speculation or not, that Barbs should be nerfed are no bueno.
Knock off the Fun Police shenanigans and let the devs do what they do.
For what it’s worth, I’ll be discussing the matter directly with Nev.
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FYI Free,
It will be interesting to hear what Nevalistis will add to what Matthew already posted or the ETA of the blog post. Matthew Cederquist acknowledged that their target is GR 141 for 10K paragon player and wrote:
"Hey,
I haven’t chimed in to this thread in a while but i want to make sure everyone understands.
In the blog post we’ll be presenting, it’ll go over the specifics of how we balance and hopefully answer many questions.
Some have already deduced through multiple threads and replies how we envision our balance.
- Classes that are 1-2 GRs above or below our projected max GR is good.
- Classes that are 3-4 GRs above or below our projected max GR is the grey area where we could potentially look at it to make some adjustments. Whether that be through numbers tweaking, items, or whatever other means.
- Classes that are 5 GRs above or below our projected max GR is not good and we would aim to balance them in the near future.
So, if you’re looking at Crusader…we can all look at them and say, “Good Day! Have your fun for now!”, but…more likely than not, they’ll come down a bit next patch."
Here is the link that shows the quote in blue.
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Free you would say same thing even if Barb was doing 150s solo in non season.
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Absolutely. Which is why I do not support a Crusader nerf.
If a Barb could do 150 solo, it would take 10-15k Paragon, and how many players can achieve it? For that matter, in non-Season, how many players can at this very moment clear 135-140 in non-Season, and with what Paragon, and with how much fishing, etc.?
Hopefully you see my gist.
This mythical perfect “balance” some of y’all are chasing is exactly that: mythical.
Can we all agree that DH, WD, Necro, Wiz, and Monk needs buffs?
I think we can.
Can we all agree that better parity between most of our major builds and classes is probably a good thing?
I think we can.
Do we need nerfs to achieve that?
No.
As soon as we start taking things away from folks, we quite literally dampen the fun people get from playing the game. Again, if the devs do it–and if they do, I hope they exercise some major restraint–that’s on them. But we don’t need to advocate for nerfs. That’s just ugly.
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I have previously referred to balance as a unicorn 
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Not the question he was asked though, was it?
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I’ll say one thing. Please don’t just buff Firebird numbers. Please recreate the set if you do anything with it because it’s absolutely terrible to play with mechanics wise.
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Agreed. As someone else noted, it is a set where you need to keep an elite alive to do maximal damage.
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I can literally clear any gr135 I open with my crusader at p7000. And clear at least 30% of the 140s I open. Stating AoV shouldn’t be nerfed is just pushing your agenda to keep building powercreep for no reason.
And yes, I am in fact a crusader main who wants shotgun to be nerfed to a reasonnable gr140 push range. And barb. And buff every other crus and barb build to this level. Because BALANCE.
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No such thing as perfect balance. One build or class (or both) will always be a little ahead of the others, be it 1 or 2 or 3 GRs. That’s not a problem.
Don’t nerf everything. Buff instead.
Complaining about powercreep in a 7 year-old game is ridiculous considering the only end-game content with scaling difficulty caps at GR 150. In a game where weapon damage = the foundation for almost all damage output, and damaging enemies is the method for end-game progression and engagement, power = fun.
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Please read Matthew’s quote about balance being imperfect and his thought on divergence from their target. 1-2 GRs are not a problem. 3-4 GRs are gray area. +5GRs or more is problematic.
I do not know enough about crusaders to make a mathematically valid recommendation. For barbarians, there are 2 possible items (Lamentation and Ambo) and waste set bonus that could be tweaked to get back into range. Also, removing the ability of hard cast rends to do area damage might do the trick and reduce server lag at the same time.
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This won’t help the situation with just making Fire skills do more damage with easier requirements. Tals does the same thing, but better. It needs to be something unique to Wizard that another set doesn’t already do.
Example, make Firebirds a DoT based fire spec. (Something unique that another set doesn’t do already for Wizard)
2 piece) Dealing [Fire damage] causes the enemy to take 1000% damage as Fire per second for 3 seconds. This effect can be repeated a second and third time by *different* skills. If an enemy is burning due to three different skills simultaneously, the enemy will Ignite, dealing 3000% damage per second until they die
4 piece) The Wizard gains 60% damage reduction as long as an enemy is ignited and for 10 seconds afterwards
6 piece) Ignite damage increases by 1000% every second an enemy is ignited and increases all fire damage by 10,000%
Something like this keeps it unique compared to Tals so a build like Tals Meteor and Firebird Meteor do not do 90% the same as the other.
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I don’t have high enough Para but this should bring AoV into line so there are 3-4 builds about the same power, which I’m guessing should be close to that 140GR range.
AoV updates for Fist of the Heavens:
2pc: should buff fist and maybe smite since the set was designed for FotH and not HF.
-damaging enemies with Heaven’s Fury increases the damage of Fist of the Heavens and Smite by 100% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times, multiplicatively.
-50% chance to cast Smite on any enemies that attack you.
4pc: 50 stacks are stupid, especially for defense or DR. DR needs to be instant or not procd at all because the FotH setup is squishy with no mobility buffs or DR while relying on heavy cooldowns. As others have stated would be nice to throw smite some love here.
-hitting with Fist of the Heavens or Smite reduces all damage you take by 55% for 10 seconds and restores up to 5 wrath.
6pc: no flavor…
-the damage of Smite, Fist of the Heavens, and Heaven’s Fury are increased by 20,000%.
-the active buff effects on your Laws of Valor are permanent.
Even though shotgun is nerfed with change to 2 piece, it’s buffed with everything else and it’s probably a little too good if anything. Further changes, take the CC component off Bracers of Fury and change shield of Fury to a straight 400-600% damage buff since it’s stupid with small capped scaling. With an ability(s) freed up and less annoying mechanics, can get some more useful skills too.
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Buff everything. The game will feel more rewarding and enriching at the end.
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What about Monks and Witch Doctors? They need buffs, we dont ever see them in a 4 man as a DPS role. There’s a lot of builds that needs buffs to damage and/or toughness to be honest.
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They tend to balance around solo GR non-season clears. The 4 man meta class distribution since season 5 has always had two classes represented; however, that is a topic for a different thread.
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