I dont look at a para cap as punishing the legit players at all.
We all have 800 points to play with, this will be the fairest season to date.
For the first time, skilled players will be able to compete, even against a bot.
Agreed, not sure why they allowed 10k botters for as long as they did.
I read this thread as the Paragon Cap is Appealing. It is!
No they wonāt, not unless they put the time in to perfect gear/gems and augments, which will still take a significant amount of time.
It will be the fairestā¦ but STILL it will not be fair. Bots will always have advantage with better gear. And with paragon cap, that better gear will be even more impactful than before. Primal gear with perfect mainstat will give a lot moreā¦ previously you could kinda challenge that with paragonsā¦ at least in early to mid season. Bots can farm items and mats a lot faster than any playerā¦ so you still wonāt be able to compete with them. There is nothing fair about that.
That is not true at all. Bots will still have advantage with better gear. Maybe people like some of the streamers could do thatā¦ but in general, noā¦ nobody will. Bot will simply āoutfarmā everyone with mats and keys.
Is it?
How many keys that legitimate players need to spend to fish a perfect rift? It could be from 1 key to 5,000 keys to get one perfect rift.
How long does it take to farm those keys if the legitimate players only play the game like 30 minutes to 1 hour per day? 
How many of them care about paragon farming? 30-60 mins/day sounds like casual so weāre most likely talking about 1000 paragon per season, maybe 1200 at best.
How long it would take for you to get to 5000 paragon if you can only play 30-60 mins/day?
Letās remove bots for a second.
Letās say you get all Ancients. All Ancients isnāt really that difficult in a reasonable amount of hours. I have roughly 15 hours on my Wizard, and all but 1 ancient, and I have found some, just not any with good stats.
But letās say minimum rolls. Excluding weapons, youāre roughly 1374 main stat behind. And they get all 150 augments, and youāre stuck to 125s via whispers. Thatās another 650. So, this puts you roughly 2000 main stat behind them. Thatās 400 paragon levels, which is not really that much. Especially considering one of the things the anti-paragon cap people have been stating is that paragon means very little. When youāre talking 30k main stat vs 2k main stat, if 30k is not that much, then 2k should be possible to surpass them on the leaderboard via skill.
So, Iād agree with you in that the keys are the big issue here. But just because someone has the perfect rift, does not mean they play the perfect rift perfectly. It also doesnāt mean that someone wonāt find that perfect rift far earlier just through sheer dumb luck.
The bottom line is, weāll find out at the end of next season whoās right. If I was a betting man, Iād say both parties will be right to a degree, but wrong to a degree as well.
About 300-500 keys for a decent push.
Currently I have roughly 10,502 keys collected over the last 3-4 seasons. I have 5376 in non-season and 5160 in seasons as noted in spreadsheet I keep for D3. I donāt paragon push. I just collect keys for non-season push during the 5 days between season roll-over and I get my new gear.
Currently Iāve been collecting about 50-100 keys a day. Thatās roughly an hour.
Iāve been pushing non-season. In non-season 2022-2 (last era), my Mundu clear was 135. I pushed Mundu in 2023-1 (current) a few weeks ago to get to 139. 136 was about 10 keys. 137 maybe 50 (Orek). 138 was around 100 keys (Oreks). 139 was around 400 keys.
The 139 wasnāt a perfect rift either and it wasnāt an Orekās Dream. If I wanted the perfect Oreks Dream, right map and monster type ā maybe 1000 keys for another GR level but Iād rather use those 1000 keys for another set.
So letās talk about actual times spent fishing. Out of 400 keys, I think I played 10-12 rifts. 3 rifts, I actually played all the way to the RG. The others were a quit after about 3-8 minutes when I realized that the affixes werenāt going my way ā too much frozen - and I was losing too much time. The pushes happened over a 3 day period roughly 2-3 hours each day.
So I would say between collecting keys and pushing I spent roughly 12-15 hours total between collecting keys and pushing.
So this current season ā the easiest and most overpowered season ā Iām at P2500 ā thereās no way I can get to P2000 on a non-altar season with the time I have.
5K para requires 1.94 Qd XP. Depending what do you do. if solo between 110-120 (2 min average), xp ranges from 2-4T per hr with pools. 60 mins daily requires 485-969 hrs. If you are top 1% elite player does speed 4 man 150s, xp range 22-35T per hour depending who you play with (current season, less on pre s29), 60 mins daily = 55 - 88hrs
Qd? Quattuordecillion? 10āøā“?
my bad, its Quadrillion
https://dclamage.github.io/paragon.html
You can use paragon calculators if you know what kind of XP you are getting from what activities.
Even though i do agree to a certain amount because without paragon bots have diminished power, you as a legit player still need to put in alot of time in to be at a competetive level. Its not like reach 800 and youāre done, no you really have to grind alot for gear, augments, etc to make a shot.
Honest question, why is the XP range so big?
2-4T means a variance of 100% while the 5% per GR level mean ~60% for those 10 levels.
At the same time the variance for groups is smaller. How come?
And thx for this example of how ridiculously broken group rewards are compared to solo.
Solo players really need some buffs like follower sets with XP buffs or something.
Are you guys aware that even in the ptr, some people are using maphacks?
yes!! 13 day period and people actually pay for that sheet and cheat
XP is 5% per tier so difference is between 150 and 110 is 1.05^40 and then you factor in time clearing differnce. 150 4 man atm is average 2 - 2.30 clears unless you have very inexperienced groups lead by bad zbarbs. ofc 110 - 120 is average build / casual speeds, if you go for tal rasha solo xp, the range should be 130 ish if not 140+, XP will be roughly 6-12T ish.
If the game is moving towards solo yeah but paragon cap is incoming so
Paragon cap will be temporary for S29 tho.
The solo / group reward disparity will remain huge for no reason
800 cap should be a testing number similar to s23 where follower buffs was introduced w/o a theme interference. I am anticipating a cap becoming permanent and welcomes it moving forward, maybe they will decide on final number in future. Depending on the amount, if its low paragon its not that practical. Even for hard core botters who lands 12-14k in strong seasons 24/7 botting, they will usually have 800 - 900 paragon when gearing up starter up bottable toons. 800 is very easy to reach SSF. 12 hrs tops from season starts, in group that time can be 4 hrs, not extremely big variance. Note followers typically use a full xp setup thats rubies combo with leorics crown as well as borns + cains. Follower pass 20% of bonus XP to player, usually lands somewhere 4-6%, although looking small, builds up significantly overtime.
Its pointless to narrow the XP gap in NS as the variance already too big. Even SSF in NS is meaningless, do you allow current paragon to carry over? If not, how is it different from seasons starting from scratch except with gear collection. Even if existing gears, but not paragon carries over to SSF NS, my worst gear is 150 augmented with 150+ excess 150 augment gems lying on alts. Gap between grinders and non/group and solo is beyond fixing in my opinion.
Itās easily fixablr by increaing solo xp with buffs from followers.
The cap, if it were to stay should be at a point where even dedicated players and groups can progress for weeks.
And to better balance that the disparity between those two should be lessened significantly
o 100%. I am not saying its hard, just impractical @ 800 -2k paragon, maybe more viable at 3-4k cap and definitely top priority @ 5k cap.
Yes, Iām aware. But hereās why I take my stance.
I focus on the season start in Diablo. Believe it or not, there actually is a community for that, and people who compete for that. There are players who use bots as well as maphacks there as well. And while I might not beat them to the conquests most seasons, I have beaten them before. It only takes once.
And the same with leveling and getting Haedrigās Gift. Certain groups use bots to farm bounties while they level, so they can skip nearly an hourās worth of the Chapter 3 requirements. Iām a completely legitimate player on the other hand. They are using the stuff youāll find on streamerās videos such as Halls of Agony Blade Leveling, or running Temple of the Firstborn over and over while using maphacks to see if thereās a cursed chest, to know if they have to relog.
But I can tell you for a fact that I donāt use any leveling strategy youāll find online, and I often beat them to 70, as well as Haedrigās Gift, on a consistent basis. Getting to 70 is often thought to be āsolvedā by now, but the point is, thereās a lot of inefficiency in what you find on sites like maxroll, icyveins, and your popular streamers videos for a āsolvedā problem.
Why canāt there also be a better approach for clearing Greater Rifts as well? Just because you say its solved does not mean itās 100% solved. And just because a lot of the top players cheat does not mean they canāt be beaten. But itās much harder to do when youāre 1000+ paragon behind, let alone 10000+ paragon behind.