I’m aware your post wasn’t aimed at me, but just to clarify, I don’t get along with Activists or Conservatives. There aren’t enough people keeping in the middle these days.
That was Tipper Gore’s banner, actually.
But back to the topic at hand, we have two camps
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Let’s have a faithful remaster
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Let’s not do that, and instead do things in a way I like more because the original wasn’t to my liking
That’s all. But it seems the latter camp won’t even be honest enough to admit that very basic premise of their position. Not surprising when you consider all the book burning movements of the past. It’s not progressive, it’s regressive. We’ve all seen this before. It’s stale.
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You guys are still here? Go enjoy the holiday.
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Wrong. As written above there is also the camp that simply wants to see what is being delivered.
And i count myself into that camp as well.
We are only speaking up because your camp keeps screaming about the topic for half a year now.
I would very much appreciate you not bringing up this dispicable argument. You did it twice now. It is enough!
Thanks in advance.
Yeah, one person notorious from not being afraid to speak up.
And in the very same paragraph you’re trying to say, that you’re “not sure of his involvement in D2” and question whether he himself designed characters and monsters, implying that if he didn’t, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about…
and at the same time you recognize he was there and therefore he can describe events surrounding the development process…
So which is it?!
Certainly a multifaceted individual.
However certainly one, who’s not afraid to speak up.
The question is, as a producer or manager, he was certainly there.
Are you now saying, that he’s lying for attention in regards to the D2 Amazon appearance?
Which is why I certainly would not describe myself as a conservative… but I would certainly not side with censorship and alterations to the masterpiece that is D2, regardless of which ideology or side of the political spectrum the ideas for said censorship are originating from. Conservative Christians or Liberal, Progressive atheists… it’s all the same to me.
If you’re interfering with a video game, because you’re letting your ideology come first rather than approach the matter from the position of a gamer or aesthet, then you’re equally bad in my book.
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Yes, one of the main points of book burning and authoritarian censorship is intimidation. It’s fascinating watching people act in a way I’d always wonder about as a child, “how did people ever get to that point?” Well we see it now. It’s fascinating and horrifying.
So we have intimidation, mixed with the censorship, and then the lack of mobs speaking out becomes another argument for them. I do wonder if these people realize how evil they have become, or simply just don’t care. It probably doesn’t matter though.
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What did they even censor?
I am not digging into Mark Kern’s life more than what I need to know. He was a producer which is still an important role and was involved with the Diablo 2 team during the development of the game.
He is also a very big reason why we got Classic WoW which is the only version of WoW still worth playing. And even that somehow started going in Activision’s greedy palms.
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Both? Me saying that he might have some insights on what was the talk in the company back then (although given the information provided on his recent views, i would not consider him a very credible source anymore), as well as asking for his role in the company back then.
I did not imply that his view doesnt count. But you were claiming to have the views of the original designers which apparently he isnt. So why would you list someone who is not a designer when being asked to provide a source for a designers/developers viewpoint?
Do you have a designers comment or not?
So which is it?!
Also this…
Mark Kern is definitely partially responsible for people getting to enjoy Classic WoW again.
Overall I find him to be a positive influence, regardless of anything else.
My relatively limited understanding of what gamergate was or is… is this:
one side claims to be fighting for journalistic integrity when it comes to video games or something like that;
those opposed to the movement claim to be against harassment.
I imagine both sides have a point. I’m certainly against harassment.
On the other hand, I am certainly in favor of journalistic integrity both when it comes to video games and in general.
I can certainly remember articles from gamer sites, that are quite frankly ridiculous;
written by people, who clearly never played a game in their life (or sucked badly at it to the point, that they can’t really call themselves gamers);
clear trend of focusing on the positives of a product, completely leaving out the negatives;
obviously paid promotional pieces, a commercial if you will… rather than something an actual gamer would be interested in reading…
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Maybe read up a bit more on the subject. Your understanding is indeed quite limited.
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It seems a few people here have some chip on their shoulders about an unrelated internet fight they had some time ago called GamerGate. No one else cares about it but they’re so obsessed they have to incorporate their burden onto others. We just want a faithful remaster to Diablo 2.
Also, Wikipedia is not a source. They are articles that are essentially leftist opinion pieces if they are related to anything cultural or political.
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Your side-line-friend literally brought a gamergate source into the mix and your EbolaCarcen admitted to not know much about the subject. So i gave him a source.
Yeah, right. “Leftist”. What is your source for that?
Wikipedia is curated and its aim is to provide an objective view. Everything that is posted there has to fulfill certain quality checks such as having proper sourcing. If an article is incorrect, you can contest it.
While certainly not perfect, it has a system in place to prevent exactly what you suggest it would do.
So do you have a better source? Something more objective? I am eager to learn what sites you are getting your information from.
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I didn’t even say designers. For the bajillionth time, I’m not 100% in favor of artistic freedom and sad, that some sketch drawing didn’t make the cut.
I posted an excerpt from a book, currently written or already out…
And it describes, that the devs wanted the Amazon to be a hot chick. It’s not even that hard to believe, as that’s what we got.
Also, what Mark Kern described, that there was a controversy about the character, even back then is not that hard to believe either.
Diablo 2: Resurrected is censored.
Which is ridiculous. D2 was always about being adult, edgy, dark and, yes, even a little bit sexualized.
It’s a raw fantasy setting. Gothic and extreme. To change it is to make a different game.The Amazon was always revealing. In fact, we fought hard to keep it that way as part of the them, as there was some push to change it, even back then.
Sucks to see something we fought for get erased in a soulless, corporate remaster.The deliberate, hard won, creative decision to have an adult, dark fantasy content has had its sharp corners rounded off and made safe for who, exactly?
This is a complete erasure of the original intent of the creators.
But here’s the problem. Whatever does not align with your goal, even citations from books and testimony from people involved with the project, you’re willing to dismiss and not accept as evidence, question how credible the source is, even though it’s a living and breathing individual.
Meanwhile, on other matters you’re willing to accept a random post from reddit, which only mentions the title of the source, not even an excerpt about events from 600+ years before we were born and is hard to know how accurate they were, considering, that histories get proven to be wrong from time to time…
I’d appreciate a little more intellectual consistency and honesty.
I might. That’s not to say, I was wrong in what I said. You posting about people, who have endured harassment in no way disproves my observations, that indeed there’s a need for more journalistic integrity, both when it comes to video games and in general.
So I don’t see Mark Kern as wrong in speaking out against censorship in general. If he’s done wrong in his past or he failed some projects, that does not make him automatically wrong on his assertion in regards to D2 and the case for the Amazon…
Also this.
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sry that was my sarcasm comming through. i know how serious that was but my point was that you painting someone the same way that had nothing to do with those threats, only free speech and anti censorship. also:
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Tell me with whom you associate, and I will tell you who you are. kind of friends he chooses. You are not responsible for what your friends do, but you will be judged by the company you keep.
Miracle did right before i asked him for sources. He said developers and designers have spoken out, i asked for sources, i gave one link to the original design (not a designer speaking out) and to a manager speaking out.
Yes, and that is not a developer or designer speaking out on the new designs. It is a recollection of what happened during development.
Again: you might infer what their current views are, but you do not know for sure.
That is precisely why i asked for a source. Because there might actually be one.
Turns out there is none. Pity.
I did not dismiss them.
I dismissed them as source for a developer or designer speaking out about the current designs. That is what was asked for.
I am aware of the original design discussion and roughly what links have been posted about it. Still there has not been a developer/designer speaking about it on the matter of the new models. Unless there is another source.
Actually, i was leaning to accept the source until i learned that it was misquoted and actually a manager with a recent track record of mismanagement and induldging in mudfights.
Well, it was just a quick search on whether there were actually warriors of a certain age in that time period.
I saw one source, it looked more or less credible to support the claim that warriors of that age actually existed. Not a big proof, just some side information to save us the discussion on that matter.
If you disprove it with a better source, that would be fine. Still not necessarily the beating argument, since we are in a video game, but well contesting sources is fine, if done correctly.
There you have it.
Now will you return the same?
Well, maybe it is worth a read. Just so that you have a broad idea of what has been going on in the past years. It would really help the discussion if you’d know a bit of gaming history (given that you are arguing from the gamer-perspective).
Yes, but same as a murder does not make the best witness in a murder trial, he is not exactly the best source for it.
And as with the murder witness example. If the defense/prosecution could come up with a better witness than the worst witness to have, then maybe they would have opted to do so.
Book burners and censors always think they’re doing it for the greater good. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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Eye roll - bye Felecia
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a little naiv/arrogant and only works when ppl characters get shallow enough like nowadays through social media bubbles (or back than through the lack of possibilities in travelling, information gathering)
also it wasn’t really his friends, just ppl that had the same opinion on some topics. also that’s YEARS ago and opinions and ppl change. also it’s unrelated, you can be 100% right about a topic and still and as*h+le and reverse.
i could go on about friendship and character-strength but pls back to topic no politics here pls
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As a gamer, I do have the right to not pay attention to this like that, or to distance myself from them;
while at the same time, maintain my focus when it comes to my entertainment to… actual games. Unfortunately, I can’t completely ignore things, that don’t concern me, as I have to try and understand various PoVs and where they come from.
Unfortunately, from my position, the moment I see, that certain views and opinions originate to a great extend from ideologies or conflicts, that I can’t even accept to be part of gaming, I can only ask for people to try and stick to what’s good about gaming and leave their… quite frankly petty experiences “at home”. Unfortunately, not many are willing to do that.
And… yet again, unfortunately, I see that things are influencing the remaster for what I’d say is the worse.
Also, in regards to Kern, I’m getting a really distinct vibe from you and Cheeta… the very same vibe I saw years ago from Jay Wilson in regards to David Brevik…
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