Nerf Thread on General

Yup, i watched that clear a lot of time ago.
And you used that clear as a reference for barbarian cap (135 in that time), and you also stated that for vile charge build wall charging mechanic was mandatory… and that darkpatator clear was without wall charge.

Fun thing is, the thing you posted show that you were lying again back in that time with barb clear potential… now you are talking that 135 was not the cap for vile charge lmao… and in your buff proposal idea you used it as a cap for barbs.

Free stop lying lmao, also if you want to know what is a complex build in d3, play hammer crusader build, that build will make your head explode if you think that WW/Rend it’s complex lmao.

We might be talking past one another. My confusion isn’t over what an era or a season is, it’s what I perceive to be an inconsistency in MicroRNA’s stance that I’m hoping they can clarify :smile:

Possibly it was a typo and MicroRNA meant to say that ‘Barbs and Crusaders are very powerful this era,’ not season? :woman_shrugging:

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Which position are you specifically referring to you?

That demon hunters would “eviscerate” dark’s 140 on the PTR?
That barbs were not capable of clearing GR 144 if the rend buff went live at 200%.
That crusaders should be nerfed?

Again I do not speak for everyone. Should I say “from the Multi-class community who play all classes”? I do not have that level of hubris.

Free,
I have answered this question repeatedly. You just will not accept my answer. Others have answered the question, too. I can not control comprehension.

I wonder if you have actually slammed a basketball on a regulation rim in real life. Having played competitive basketball, you will dunk and be dunked on. If you are not being dunked on, your competition is not at high level.

I meant era. I added it to the back end of the quote. They are also powerful this season too.

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You nailed that comment, that is exactly what I mean, I think it is great that the game has a few builds that some people with disability’s can handle, with careful planing and maybe use a more defensive build, a player with a disability like myself probably won’t be at the top of the Leader Boards, the bottom half is fun too, especially since the Game has a no macro rule.

Actually I said that, this is going to be one of the rare times I quote myself:

I am quite sure that any player that has been around for awhile would feel the same way. :slightly_smiling_face:

Well I am totally tired of the Nerf Balance :poop: and I won’t be involved in that discussion anymore, at least until the up-coming PTR, it is like talking to a wall full of statues. If I feel I can be of some assistance in the PTR I will try help the Barb cause there. Mean while I will hang around here and do my best “Rabble-Rousing” Barbarian style, when they get out of line. :rofl: It quite amazes me the Love, Hate mind set that players have for the WW Barb all these years! :crazy_face:
Time to Spin to Win as they say :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
:peace_symbol:

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Wait…what? Was that written in English? :joy::joy::joy:

I’ve tried to keep my mouth shut on this topic for a while, but there’s something I need to get out before the PTR notes come out.

Quick disclaimer:
I’ve simply been trying to read the signs, I’m not “pro-nerf” any more than a meteorologist is “pro-hurricane”. I think that a nerf is coming. I could completely wrong about it, and if I am, I’ll be the first to admit that I was wrong, publicly.

If I’m not wrong though:
The barb community has a strategic decision to make. Either A) fight to revert the nerf, or B) suggest an alternative method for achieving the same result.

I don’t think option A is a good strategy. If the devs have decided that rend needs tuning after an entire season of observing, they’re going to do it.

There’s lots of ideas that have been thrown around for option B, but they will only work if there’s consensus from the community. If half of us are fighting for option A, and the other half are throwing out random ideas for option B, nothing will change, and barbs will be the worse for it.

So, I’m pleading (mainly to Free), IF there’s a nerf in the upcoming patch notes, have a plan to present to the devs. If you choose option A, I will sit quietly on the sidelines. If you choose option B, I’ll be an outspoken advocate for whatever solution we’re offering.

I have been reading through the offline only vs online only thread. Bloody hell, you should read some of that garbage. I’ve decided the nerf vs don’t nerf argument isn’t even worth having.

Just gonna grab some pop corn and watch the drooling in those threads :joy:

There’s that agenda that I mentioned earlier, that you and darkpotato have both stated clearly, despite you saying otherwise.
You believe that the rend/ww build requires the least skill, therefore it shouldn’t be able to push that far.
So just because you don’t enjoy, like or think this particular build deserves to go far in terms of pushing potential, why try and spoil the experience for players that enjoy the ww build? Those that play it because that’s what they enjoyed from d2?

You’ve been constantly going over blizzards words that they’re aiming for balance around 141. And perhaps a Nerf is coming…
But on the same token, you fail to realise, or perhaps you’re choosing to ignore, blizzard buffed and fixed the broken ww set, which means they intend to have it in the mix for pushing to high rifts, despite your reservations on the apparent lack of skill required to play the build.

I guess the crux of my point is, why should YOUR, potato or et al view on WW dictate and trump how others view and want to play and enjoy the game if they like WW Barb’s?

Considering we know buffs are coming to all classes, and all classes will ideally have roughly the same clearing potential, perhaps you all shouldn’t play the build if you don’t like it, and leave it to those that do?

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I have an agenda. I do not hide it.

AGENDA:

  1. Advocate for game balance where balance is achieved through buffing underperforming classes and nerfing overperforming classes.

  2. Advocate for more storage space and/or character slots.

  3. Provide game data and truthful information to stop the propagation of misinformation

Two simple questions for you:

Should crusaders that have 8 solo non-season clears at GR 150 be nerfed?

Given past history and the game producer’s posts, do you think AoV crusaders will be nerfed in patch 2.6.8?

I have no problem with this build being a top tier build that can push GR 140+ greater rifts. I do have a problem if this build is 5GRs above the target. I agree with Matt in that 1-2 GRs deviation around the target is good balance. 3-4 GRs iffy. 5+ GRs not good.

I strongly suspect that Free will advocate for option A. As you have read, he doesn’t even support a nerf to AoV crusaders that are stronger than any class to date in the game (stronger than patch 2.6.6 wizards and thorns necromancers) and +9 GRs above Blizzards target. The ironic things is that both Pro and Ulma have requested nerfs to other classes in the new forum. This highlights the fact that the only buff philosophy is not unanimous even among Free’s “supporters” that Free named in the new forum.

So, baring in mind point one of your agenda, why haven’t I seen a single post from you on the DH forum advocating for buffs but I have seen you repeatedly asking, in both the Barbarian and General Discussion forums, for nerfs to WW/Rend? It seems like you’ve got the nerf posting down cold, but you’re not too hot on the whole buffing thing.

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For balance, you start from the most significant outlier (either over- or underpowered). As I told you already, I have posted on buffs to other classes in general discussion. The only reason, I posted in this thread initially is because my name was invoked. You can see for yourself if you read the first 7 or so posts.

I prefer not to post in class-specific forums. In the old forum, only 2 of ~2,000 posts were in the barb forum. In the old forum, my posts almost always were in general discussion. More recently, my thoughts and suggestions to nerf and buff to multiple classes appear frequently in the new general discussion forum. In relation to DH buffs, they are needed but necromancers buffs are more pressing.

Except for the Barbarian forum, which brings us back to…

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Do you understand that it is often because my name or my comments were invoked first?

See post #5 in this thread.

I have a right to respond to comments directed at me. Posters have a right to argue against my posts as I have to defend them as long as I do it respectfully and in a manner consistent with Blizzard’s forum CoC.

Ideally, everyone should have an agenda of integrity, fairness, and justice.

Ha! Are you talking about the Diablo III Forums? :astonished:
Never happen! :see_no_evil: :hear_no_evil: :speak_no_evil:
:laughing:

You clearly know what is going on, because you looks like a rationale guy.

Free thinks that people like me or micro are trolls that hate barbs, just because we want better balance in the game, fun thing is i was one of the guys that were asking for barbarian buffs (so it’s pretty funny that people here consider me a troll, specially considering that the very first topic i created in this forum was a topic in which i suggested buffs to mortick bracers :man_shrugging:).

Dev team nerfed necromancers and wizards that had similar numbers, but for some reason Free thinks that barbarians are ok and should not be nerfed lmao (this is even funnier becase one of the devs clearly said that anything 143+ could eat a nerf, specially if +145).

I really want a 3 GR nerf for WW, because is something not that big, but we all know that even a 3 GR nerf will still make WW over the balance, barbarian community instead of giving ideas on how to nerf WW in order to avoid overnerfs are just giving bad arguments trying to defend that overpowered build, at the very end this thing could end very bad, i really don’t want WW overnerfed but seems like that is what will happen.

And then after possible nerfs Free and their followers will start a new riot in forums, they are in state of denial and they have zero ideas to offer to barb balance.

Fun thing is they don’t consider that WW should not be a competitive pushing build, because it kills servers with area damage, and also makes every single other barbarian build useless, because is a build that has high mobility, can group mobs effciently, is the best barbarian build for bounties, the best for farming regular rifts and the best for barbarian EXP meta… And this will not change, even if they buff all other barbarian builds to 146 this will fix nothing, because people will still use WW because moves faster than other builds, so in order to fix via buffs all other barbarian sets they have to buff them +146, which means moving powercreep wheel further…

Also, just a reminder for players that are against nerfs, if they nerf WW by 3 levels, instead of do let’s say 110 speed you will do 107, and the difference in paragon levels per hour is slim(all this 110 speed was just considering low paragon players), so all that bad arguments of “omg stop ruining the fun of other people”, it’s just a lie, i doubt that low level paragon players care about paragon per hour, mostly because any player that care about that plays meta, and almost everyone that post here don’t care about playing meta lmao.

Every single build in this game should have at least a very small niche… the WW niche is speedfarming exp/gems and bounties, WW should never be a pushing build, let the pushing things to HOTA, slam or leapquake, because these build are not great for other areas, that way you bring diversity and balance to the barbarian class.

Also, i read one of the dumbest Free comments here, about the new set hoping to be OP and making “the nerf crew” angry. that thing will not happen Free, the only one that rages about nerfs and buffs is you, i really hope the new barbarian set focuses into primary skills and i hope it ends in 141-143 spot, because barbarian deserves a strong RGK, i want barbarian to be strong, but i don’t want barbarian to be overpowered.

Unlike you Free, if tomorrow devs say that WW clearing 146 is ok, i will not counter argument them, but if they decide to nerf WW you will make a big riot in forums, that is our difference… at the very end the one that rages is you and not “the nerf crew”.

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So, if I made a thread on the DH forum that asked for some pretty tables and analysis of DH performance in the current era / season, would that get three months of DH forum posts from you?

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Also, I quoted in this thread (posts #50 and #53), eight earlier posts on the new forum asking for barb buffs. Ironically, Free claimed back then that I was dog whistling and I actually wanted barbs too be nerfed in contrast to what I said over and over and over and over again.

If you invoked my name repeatedly on the DH forum, Likely.

If you claimed that DHs were the weakest class for years on the DH forum? Likely.

If you claimed that DH are overpowered (which they are not) on the DH forum? Likely

If it was about class balance in general, I likely would post on general discussion as it is relevant.

I truly don’t think we’re getting nerfed. Rend just got buffed, and it’s not as OP as Sader, and Cederquist and Nev haven’t said boo about Rend. All signs point to: we’re fine.

Even if we did get a nerf, I don’t think there’s much fighting to be done unless the nerf was severe. In that case, I would absolutely advocate for its reversal, and I always have a plan.

:rofl: :rofl:

Indeed it was, and it was about American Gridiron Football!

Do you still live in Australia? If so, I hope you’re not in danger from the fires.

You’re 2 for 2, my friend. Excellent points.

Fun Police will point to Cederquist’s post about balance and discuss what that should look like when practically implemented, but I wonder what they would be saying if the producer had posted different ranges. Anyway, their agenda is clear and has been for a long time.

Wait, you’re Table Guy? That’s you?!

I had no idea!

That’s your opinion, and not one shared by most Barb players. I feel confident saying that as the wick for the build for 5 years now.

Or you simply buff other builds to be more competitive.

So you’re the Bloody Mary of the forums?

Someone go to some other game forum and invoke this dude so we can finally have peace.

Agree 100%.

It’s easy to argue that physically demanding builds should be stronger, but–aside from being an ableist argument–it ignores where the true skill and complexity of game resides: decision-making and management.

You’ll notice that after I used the Fire EQ example all the talk about difficulty and builds evaporated. That’s not a coincidence.

Of course, we still get trash like this:

I hate that I have to explain this to a teenager.

Re-watch that 135 clear. Now consider this: What would have happened if he had a static RG and could have taken advantage of wall-charging?

See my point?

You can clear a rift without wall-charging, similar to how R6 HOTA can be played without wall-charging, but it won’t be as efficient, and you won’t clear as high.

If Dark or anyone else with 8-10K Paragon opened a 136 and got 2 GG floors, a decent Conduit, and a static RG and could use wall-charge, you’d have a new highest Vile Charge clear. That would take a lot of fishing, but the build has the potential to do it.

Clear potential is not the same as an actual clear. Do you understand the difference?

On second thought, don’t worry about it. The last thing I want is to continue a conversation with you.

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