LOL! Well I see you actually have a Seasons WW Barb but I don’t see you on the Seasons Leader Boards anywhere, how come??? 
With your Wonderfully Outstanding Gear, High Level Leg. Gems and solid Game Play Experience with such a “Simple Negative Skill” 1 brain cell build, you should be in the GR 130s anyways or even the top 100s with the OP Seasons Theme. 
Spin to Win! 
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As darkpatator pointed out, ww/rend is one of the least technically demanding builds that solo clears a disproportionately high GR in comparison to other top tier builds.
I am not at that skill level by miles and miles. However, I did do a test during patch 2.6.7 (before 2.6.7a with the rend buff on lamentation). Without any legendaries gems equipped, only 1 skill on my entire skill bar, and other handicaps such as using a normal health potion and equipping some intelligence gear, no augments, and lowish paragon, I was still able to clear GR 80+ even without the rend modifier on lamentation.
That might not seem that high but the only skill on my entire skill bar was ww.
Awesome! You done good for only one Skill and other “Disproportionately Health Handicaps”, I must say your the man! 
Sorry I just had to, my “Rabble-Rouser” tendency’s are showing again! 
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That’s precious, but… you may wanna sit down.
He spawned Crusader King 50% into the rift, and when the RG spawned, it was on Floor 2, which was a Realm Walker or whatever they call it map. Here’s the clear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9ihk0iouPI
CK isn’t a GG RG for VC (Vile Charge) because he teleports, and if you spawn him in a map like that, well, you’re in for a bad time. Good thing Dark spawned him with 50% of the timer left, right?
Great clear, BTW. GG progression on Floor 1, and excellent decision making.
But… at 10k Paragon, this isn’t the upper limit of Vile Charge–unless, of course, you wanna fish for…
Can you guess?
An RG and map where you can wall-charge, preferably with a Power Pylon. If Dark had gotten a static RG with wall-charge, he would have shaved minutes off that clear.
TLDR: Dark’s clear was NOT the highest VC can clear precisely because it left out wall-charging and Power Pylon. I give you credit for trying to talk about Barb stuff, but not much–not much at all.
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As I pointed out, he’s wrong.
Aside from R6, which is no longer a competitive Barb build, can you tell me what is more demanding in terms of skill and why for Barb builds? Can anyone make a worthwhile argument about Barb builds, or is it just me and everyone vs you and taters? Yeesh.
You’re welcome to copy and paste my post above if you get stuck. 
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If you enjoy the use of fancy words, why didn’t you just say they’re homophones?
The word count gets bigger, the words get bigger, just trying to disguise the same old argument…
/yawn…I’m so bored
Who is going to win the Super Bowl?
Oh wait, I’m Australian, we don’t know what the hell it is anyway 
Like Phoenix said I grow tired of trying to argue with people who just won’t listen. Barb mains know where we stand on power for our individual builds. All yall calling for nerfs and garbage clearly haven’t played barb as long as the rest of us. Leaving this thread to hopefully let it die but I’m sure the trolls will keep breathing life into it.
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Actually I would like to thank the Dev’s for making a few builds that a player doesn’t have to keep mashing a half a dozen keys and buttons or so, generally in a certain order, why you might ask?
Well there are older players like myself that have stiff joints usually caused by arthritis, which I am sure you know can be quite painful or disabled people of any age with a host of different injury’s or disability’s that like to play video games but makes it difficult.
So keep that in mind when people start putting down the builds that are not so technically challenging, and I have read a few other threads by other players on these Forums that put down a build that might be too easy for you or them to play, I don’t mean any disrespect to anyone but there are players that appreciate those kind of builds and wouldn’t be able to play the game at all if there weren’t.
THANK YOU
Spin To Win
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That’s fair i suppose. I’m 19 so i’ve never really encountered problems like that.
Well I am glad that you see where I am coming from. 
Good luck and maybe actually try pushing with the WW Rend build, just getting the hang of Ancient Spear takes a fair amount of practice, I still haven’t got it right LoL, and to decide when and where to DPS on a large group takes even more practice. Maybe watch a video or 2 of high WW Rend GR clears to see what I mean.
Who knows maybe you will grow to like “Spinning To Winning!”
I should of added HailFall, If you do take a notion to push or try any Barbarian builds there are some excellent help in the sticky’s above and any questions you may have about any build will be answered by very knowledgeable people. 
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I disagree. Moreover, I think his point was not only a within barb comparison but also across classes initially until you tried to shape it as a within barb comparison. In my mind, his position is correct. He was in the top 25 solo era 11 worldwide leaderboard for all classes and has experience in pushing multiple builds across multiple classes to the top of their potential.
His view is also consistent my own gameplay experience across multiple classes. With game experience across multiple classes, you gain a better sense of how many builds plays and how demanding they are.
You may imagine the ability to compare the difficulty of builds across classes would be a function of your play time. Blind resume time:
| Player | Barbarian | Crusader | Demon Hunter | Monk | Necromancer | Witch Doctor | Wizard |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Player A | 7190 | 6786 | 3422 | 500 | 531 | 147 | 4295 |
| Player B | 700 | 378 | 2444 | 745 | 473 | 2422 | 645 |
| Player C | 1913 | 3 | 92 | 36 | 13 | 2 | 93 |
| For these 3 players, 2 play all classes and have a miimimum time of 147 hours iin their least played class. In contrast, Player C only has 1 class that they have played more than 100 hundred hours. Although player C may (or may not) be knowledgeable about all class, it is clear to me that player C has very little handson experience in all non-barb classes. |
Top end clears on the worldwide leaderboard all require fishing and luck and high paragon. Your assessment suggests that the potential of this build is much higher at the time. Does that mean that there was problems with your estimate of class power?
I agree that it is nice to have builds that are not technically demanding of which ww/rend is one in contrast to what Free stated.
The second idea is whether the builds technical demands are proportional to its GR clear. So in comparison to demon hunters, monks, necromancers, witch doctors, and wizards are any other their top build more demanding to play than ww/rend?
In EU, all Top 1000 leaderboard spots in era 12 4 man groups are now at GR 150.
Thanks for the chart, you can see from there what I was getting to. First, barb has never been the dps in 4 man groups in any of the seasons and still isn’t. In the first couple seasons you see barb had higherst gr clear and if Im not mistake that was the old pull barb that took tons of fishing and had to have a conduit for the rg, bc the build had almost 0 single target damage and conduit was a lot stronger then. That was kind of fluke overall, all the other classes had builds that could kill the rg without it. Barb always seemed behind in any dps role, especially with groups, unless they were speed pushes and used as trash clearers. Again, my question to everyone else was, how does a nerf to barbs help you out or the game? Unless they want to restructure the whole GR and gem system I don’t see how going backwards will do much now.
The build maybe not as key and button mashing as some builds, but the higher you go in GRs the more your Gear Rolls, strategy, fishing, mob and Pylon placement, and timing becomes very important or your dead meat on the battlefield.
Maybe try Playing the build or even pushing it at higher GR’s than you are used to in Non Season without the Theme and You actually might get what I am writing about.
Damn I just wasted 10 minutes of my precious time, but I am feeling very “incorrigible”, down-rite ornery and mean today! I think I’ll go Spin To Win for a while, have fun.
That is true for all builds as you are trying to get the most potential out of them. I have played ww/rend in both non-season and season. In non-season, it is one of the easier builds that I have played to get to a higher GR.
I agree with those facts.
So this means that other builds were worse trash killers. Other builds also used pylons to help kill RG.
This thread and other have mainly been talking about solo GR clears. If we wan to think about group meta, then we need to consider which classes can be RGK, trash killer, and support. In this regard, barbs have not played a significant role as DPS; however, from season 5, barbarians and monks have always had a spot in the 4 man meta.
When I hear this question, I respond with the question has does a buff to barbs when they were weak help players who prefer barbs?
The reason that game balance is important relates to better opportunities. You claim that it sucks that barbs have not had a role as a DPS in 4 man groups? Wouldn’t it be better to have better equity in opportunity? Would it be great if barbs, crusader, DH, monks, necromancers, WD, or wizards all could clear similar GRS solo and could be part of meta that could clear within a few GRs of each other?
That is pretty easy to check you know, the Non Season Leader Boards start at 119.
I already posted this in another thread. I would not make to many conclusions rom this as it does not take into account how many are playing each class. I have looked at people of equivalent paragon or GR efficiency that corrects in part for the popularity of a class. Barbs and crusaders are very powerful this season and era. This data was from 22 days ago.
Hold on a sec. Correct me if I’m wrong, but have you not, in the past, suggested that we should not be using seasonal clears as our benchmark for anything because of the nature of the seasonal buffs?
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Good dodge! Ha! 
Funny I don’t see you anywhere on the Barb solo Leader Boards in Non Seasons, maybe you should take some of the advice I gave HailFail about learning the WW Rend build. 
Thank you for making this excellent point.
I want to add to it with the following:
Zodiac Rend isn’t technically demanding in the sense that it’s hard to physically control; aside from Rage Flip, the build doesn’t require a lot of manual dexterity, but manual dexterity isn’t the real barometer of a build’s difficulty in ARPGs, and especially in D3 where you only have 6 skills to activate at a given time. For example, Fire EQ is the simplest and easiest Barb build to play, but it definitely has more clicking and button presses in its play cycle than Rend.
Difficulty is better judged by the amount and complexity of decision-making and second order management required by a build. It’s physically easy to hold down your WW button and apply Rends. Likewise, it’s physically easy to occasionally refresh Wrath and press Stomp to trigger Band of Might. On the other hand, it’s much tougher to make good decisions for the build. When and where do you group density? How much? If elites are at XX% health, do you drag them or stay and finish the fight? If you do drag them, can you make those pulls with Spear in X seconds to sync with Physical COE cycle? Have you properly managed your Pylon spawns in coordination with all this pulling and grouping? Can you tank these mobs as opposed to those?
Contrary to Dark’s claim, builds like Fire EQ–builds without pulls–are generally easier than other builds because a large amount of the (more difficult) second decision-making is taken out of the player’s hands. With Fire EQ, you leap, dump Fury, and repeat. Your skill rotation is more or less automatic and pulling with the build amounts to leaping around the screen, aggroing as best you can, and hoping the mobs clump together on your central position.
Pro Slam is an exception due to the relative complexity of managing resources, damage cycles, and movement patterns, and I would argue that it is our most difficult build at the moment.
Anyway, I’m fine disagreeing about difficulty and builds, and Dark is absolutely right that the devs are gonna do what the devs are gonna do. I’m not worried about Barb nerfs because, as I’ve pointed out repeatedly, there’s no reason to nerf Barbs.
Their argument has to do with “balance,” which is a thinly-veiled excuse for wanting to regulate the fun others have with the game.
Hope the Chiefs take the Lombardi. Not even a KC fan, but I’m rooting for them and for Reid, and I’d love to see Mahomes and crew sock it to San Fran.
Is Ulma’s position also correct? Do you remember what his positions are?
Careful there, squeezy bear. You might just come round to eat your own tail!
So . . . confirmation bias?
Kidding. Sort of.
One could also argue that all you get from that is a sense of how different builds on different classes play differently from one another, and since class leaderboards are separate, that comparison isn’t necessarily very telling. More telling is this: Aside from Thorns damage, all outgoing damage is based on Weapon Damage and multipliers (skills and items).
What’s also telling is experience in group play, particularly at the higher end, to understand why certain kinds of damage output are better for certain kinds of situations. For example, why was Twister Wizard so effective? Was it because their individual twisters did that much damage? Or was it something else?
Have that essay on my desk by tomorrow morning.
Maybe try directly answering the question he asked. It’s nearly identical to the question I’ve asked multiple times–the same question that no one has yet to answer.
Oof. I’m glad there’s folks like Phoenix and Windigo in this thread, and I’m glad they’re doing as much dunking as can be done.
Keep slamming those b-balls, folks.
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