Making Rare and Magic Items useful in D4

[clueso-2790]

@Lolli42-2538

i dont like picking up just to salvage them^^
that idea of items literally being spare parts right from the moment when you see them, is horrible

Only those items would get salvaged that do not fulfill your set requirements you put on the “Salvage Filter”.

So it is defnitely not every singe rare and magic item like in D3.

@Firyadan-2852

If this system is only for casual players, then why make it complicated with 4 effects per attribute ?

My intent was to give each class its own Attributes with bonuses that fit the class. For example, it makes sense that a Paladin/Knight/Crusader would get bonus Armor, while a Rogue/Assassin/Monk would get Dodge Chance as their Secondary Defensive Bonus from the Defensive Attribute (the primary bonus always being x% reduced damage taken).

I experimented with just 3 Bonuses, but it didn’t round up. 4 fit perfectly.

And it is not only for casuals, snce there are also categories/types of players that fall between casual and high end players.

@Firyadan-2852

Anyway, I don’t think any system should target casual or high end players only.

Impossible, because if you do so, you will end up with either nerfing things that are meant for high end players so that casuals can do it, or make everything so difficult for casuals that they will leave.

Think about Shaper and other Uberbosses in PoE being nerved to such a degree that they can be done by casuals. Think about putting ridiculously large numbers on sets and then giving everyone Haedric’s Gift at the start of a season, etc.

There has to be content and systems that cater to one kind of player more than others because it is an incentive for them to feel rewarded in a way that fits them, not something that is jst watered down in an attempt to please everyone.

And by a similar logic on a related issue we also could get rid of skills and passives that are not the best, because for the high end players there is only way correct path anyway. And we could even get rid of all other classes except the best one as well.

@Firyadan-2852

In this case it’s also an opportunity for casuals to break their character. Imo, any attribute should improve both damage and defense in some way.

You mean each single Attribute should improve both Defense and Offense at the same time? But wouldn’t that be the most casual thing you can get with such a system?

Why not also spend a few points into Offense after you spend a few ones into Defense and vice versa? Would have the same effect.

@Firyadan-2852

Of course it’s just my opinion on the matter.

Yeah, I respect that your taste is different.

@Firyadan-2852

Attributes is a very complex subject.

Theoretically that Attribute System could be broken down to

• x% increased damage per point (Offensive Attribute)
• x% reduced damage taken per point (diminishing returns) (Defensive Attribute)
• x% increased movement speed per point (Mobility / Utility Attribute)
• x% reduced resource costs + x% reduced cooldowns per point (diminishing returns) (Resource Management Attribute)

I guess you could almost say the rest is for flavor to make it fit the various classes better.

@GeminiEclips-1766

Adding in pointless stats like hit recovery (who likes that system?)

Quite a lot of people, especially from the Diablo 2 crowd.
Hit Recovery also could be replaced with a Stagger System for your Character that microstuns him when the meter is full, similar to the ones that bosses in D4 have, as suggested in this concept here

@GeminiEclips-1766

or stamina amount just to fill a 4 stat pre-defined system. To achieve what exactly?

Stamina would work more like a separate resource that is specifically there for your Sidesteps / Dodgerolls, so it would work very differently in D4 with this suggestion.

If Sidesteps / Dodgerolls in D4 would drain Stamina, then they could remove the annoying Interrupt that comes after you did a Sidestep.

@GeminiEclips-1766

Bloated stats

Points are limited and numbers can be adjusted.

@GeminiEclips-1766

All I see is the same boring things that D2 and D3 did. But you get to “choose” which boring stat you get to improve.

For High End Players there is only one right way anyways, so according to that logic we can also get rid of all skills, passives, items, etc that are “not the best”, because “it is not really a choice”.

But aside from that, D2 had no Offensive Attribute and the Resource Attribute (Energy) was mostly useless and a Mobility Attribute did not exist. This is different here, so I disagree with the premise that this system is anywhere near “the same” as D2’s Attributes.

@GeminiEclips-1766

The only reason this system might be interesting is because you made so many stats you had to grab the interesting ones like cooldown reduction or resource cost reduction.

RCR, CDR and x% Reduced Damage Taken would have diminishing returns so that it would be impossible to reach 100%.

You probably also could not have 100% uptime on skills like Wrath of the Berserker and others anyways if it gets the feature of not starting its cooldown first after its effects have expired.

@GeminiEclips-1766

I spend 1 point I gain a small rather pointless incremental generic boost.

Why is intended and not a problem when you combine it with more irregular larger and more spiky upgrades from the itemization.

And that is how it has been as well in D1 and D2 (and even D3, although D3 is probably the worst one on this).

@GeminiEclips-1766

The rest is just bloat for bloats sake. Generic broad stroke increases are boring. They’ve been done in every game across every single arpg and other rpgs.

For a good reason. They give players a more cosistent sense of progression.

If progression would be just with items, there would be RNG involved, so one player might have the BiS items after 20 hours of play, while another player could play for 300 hours and still run around with mediocre items. I know this is exaggerated, but it illustrates the point.

@GeminiEclips-1766

There’s little to no utility or synergy with your skills outside the obvious cooldown reduction and resource cost reduction which you don’t need a 16 bloated stat system to do.

That is what Passive Skills and Items and also other Skills are for.

You need various kinds of systems and not every single one of them should be massively changing the way your character works.