On paper it looks like they should do about the same DPS. The set provides 10,000% percent and LOD provides 13x750 = 9,750%. Double vs feared enemies but that doesn’t work on elites or bosses anyway. Seems like you’d get more trash clearing potential from cubing Scourge in the LOD build unless all those legendaries for frenzy / primary skill modifiers are multiplicative with each other so the bloodshed crits are big enough. Does scourge have an ICD?
I was thinking the same until you realized that you lost a lot of DPS if you go LoD build.
LoD only open more legendaries for survability and elemental damage. The build lack a lot in legendaries that support frenzy (you only have 4 and you can use all of them in H90 build), and when I say lack of legendaries it’s because 2 of them are just for primary skills in general.
Anyway H90 set, also open the possibility to wear Endless Walk (x2 damage) or F+R (glass canon option if you cube CoE and not BoM). Also you gain 1 legendary gem in case you use LoD.
As you can see the H90 set is probably like 4-5 times more damage than LoD, there’s no point to play LoD with this build.
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LOD/LON version does not grant your Shouts double effects which is huge BTW…
I am more interested in IKHOTA vs H90 as both have same playstyle.
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I think H90 wins. I think a fairer comparison would be LoD HotA vs H90. Just talking from personal experience.
I will necro this because against all odds i still love the thought of a LoD Fury.
Ive been testing all sorts of LoD Fury Setups in the recent days like a madman and cant hijack Rages H90S Guide thread for this purpose anymore. Its better to keep it in this thread for people that are interested in this dumb idea.
Currenlty i need a break from farming the gear and wanted to get some opinions from people that rly care for LoD in general and a Frenzy LoD in particular.
I found your test vid poco, Rage pointed me to it.
From what i can see your LoD gear was:
Leorics Diamond
Double Pylon Ammy
Ancients Pauldrons
Morticks Brace
Stone gaunts
Cindercoat (so firespec, maniac)
Im guessing pain supression belt so undisputed cubed
CoE
BoM (i bet)
Depth diggers
ice stompers
Oathkeeper (Bastions cubed)
EF
what did u cube for assesory? did u wear full 13 ancient? how high was LoD gem?
in your S90H you also playd EF mortics, not AZ grandeur augilds.
from what i hear back then 2 set double dmg was only against feared, not frozen or stunned so AZ wasnt as obviously stronk as today.
If you allow i would love to give some feedback on your gear and share my xp and ask some questions about your xp.
Leorics diamond is def BiS for zerker uptime i agree.
Double pylon ok, i vouch for Ess of Johan, ill explain why in the bracer section.
Ancients pauldrons i dont understand at all, u dont even have ancients on the bar. i first used skele and then deaths mantle. LoD pauldron slot is lackluster yeah but mantle offers a bit of dps.
Mortics, u gain 50% dmg reduce while zerk uptime do you rly need that situational tank? I opted strongarm over lacunis. offers a much needed dmg multiplier utilized by double ess and stomp instead of charge to trigger BoM.
Stone gauntlets with ice stompers i agree.
I also use cindercoat fire dmg but because of sankis 20% and magefist 20%. I cubed magefist, wear undisputed.
BoM, CoE, Oathkeeper and Bastion are mandatory.
I use Unity as fourth assessory you used pain supression (even using a cube slot to inc uptime), loosing war cry, is that nessesary?
You used EF wich i disagree on because in high rifts its proc uptime gets lower and lower plus the fear gets annoying, so i opted sankis for the 20% fire.
(Not AZ because CC is not needed and lowers mantle dps and only fire gains a slot via Cindercoat in LoD. Odyn, Rime and everything else is naught)
LoD Frenzy wont beat LoD Hota or S90H but i still believe it can be optimized.
Maybe its also fun for some of you to discuss this.
what i learned from my journey learning about LoD in general:
When i started with LoD i thought that it would make Legendary Procs viable again, like Pandemonium Loop or Odyns Proc because LoD raises the general damage and not only multiplies the one trick pony skill.
This still isnt true with LoD at least with fury or HOTA because the number of Legendary signiture skill multipliers even without a set bonus is ridiculously high.
Odyn e.g. wich theoretically has the highest dmg proc of all weapons aside from Rimeheart. 30% chance of 3 times 400% weapon damage no icd. still only accounts for 3% of frenzy damage even in LoD. So even in LoD its all about the main skill multipliers.
So for example HOTAs damage multiplier from legendarys is around 1000 a tick, frenzys is around 750 base damage a tick (only achieved by its attack speed bonus, multi per hit is ofc much lower than HOTA).
Lets look at pandemonium loop for example: 800% on death aoe when feared.
8 multi. Apart from immunity and lower deathtime the higher the rift lets just assume for the sake of the argument we would kill 10 feared mobs around yellow a tick: 10x8=80. Still only 80 multi a tick.
Even if we would frag 10 a tick man its wayne. Again HOTA multi 1k fury 750.
So the only thing in HOTA or Fury you can feasibly stack in LoD is either more defence or main skill multipliers because Legendary procs are wayne because main skill multipliers are ridiculus.
Sorry if this is common knowledge, i didnt find it anywhere thought i might aswell write it down.
So generaly when thinking about LoDing a build it only comes down to how much multi the skill gets from legendarys without the set, how low the multi of the main skill of the 6er set is in comparison to LoDs 10k multi and how much multiplier you can stack in the slots that you gain from freeing up the set slots, while still achieving a feasable survivability.
The problem is as we see with HOTA and also Fury the Legendarys that inc multi apart from the obvious HOTA/Fury boosters are fairly limited.
The only multi e.g. LoD Fury gains over S90H is cindercoat, magefist and strongarm brace but that will never make up for S90H shouts Aughilds and Travelers Pledge.
You can surely stack more tank but you just wont achieve S90H damage nor reach HOTA dmg simply because 1k vs 750. Even with strongarm brace stack, wich would be the only possible way to make LoD Fury competitive.
cheers
Sorry I missed this, mimung. I’m on my way out the door, but I’ll type up an adequate response when I can. Always good to see a fellow LoD connoisseur! lol.
Me too! Even though H90 eventually “won me over” as being fun and powerful to play, LoD always had a certain appeal. Maybe because it’s harder to gear, every piece of equipment has to be basically perfect, so “finishing” a LoD character carries a greater sense of accomplishment. (Blizz if you read this, Skullgrasp → 800% so we can LoD WW T16 more easily 
)
what did u cube for assesory? did u wear full 13 ancient? how high was LoD gem?
I used BoM in the cube. Yes, I had 13 ancients and a 99 LoD gem. Most of my gear had 105 augments since it was shared gear with my LoD HotA.
in your S90H you also playd EF mortics, not AZ grandeur augilds.
Yes, definitely not optimized. We were only a few days into the ptr, so without the guidance of more experienced players, I just theory-crafted what I thought would work best. If anything, my LoD build was more optimized than my H90 build, so the gap is probably even wider. But, as you said, the point is to optimize whatever you have fun playing, so it doesn’t matter!
If you allow i would love to give some feedback on your gear and share my xp and ask some questions about your xp.
Of course. I swapped some gear between my characters, so you should be able to see my character “Kuurth” on the US region.
Double pylon ok, i vouch for Ess of Johan, ill explain why in the bracer section.
Flavor of Time is basically required for pushing. I think the only solo push builds that don’t use it are either using a set ammy, squirts, or something class-specific like the simulacrum one. The good news is that if you really want Ess, you can wear CoE and BoM, wear either Ess or FoT and cube the other one.
Ancients pauldrons i dont understand at all, u dont even have ancients on the bar. i first used skele and then deaths mantle. LoD pauldron slot is lackluster yeah but mantle offers a bit of dps.
There’s no shoulders that actually do anything for you. I used FotA because mine had decent stats and was augmented. I guess Pauldrons of Skeleton King is theoretically BiS, but really there’s no difference. I’m assuming by mantle you mean Deathwatch Mantle. The 750% weapon damage when getting hit is negligible, so I wouldn’t choose that over a better-rolled shoulder of any other kind. Looking for Str, Vit/AR, AD, cdr.
Mortics, u gain 50% dmg reduce while zerk uptime do you rly need that situational tank? I opted strongarm over lacunis. offers a much needed dmg multiplier utilized by double ess and stomp instead of charge to trigger BoM.
I don’t think dropping Furious Charge is feasible. When you get stuck in mobs and get arcane beams planted on you, you have to escape somehow. But I agree Morticks might not be optimal. An argument could be made for Lacunis, Nemesis, Strongarms, and maybe Parthans too. Ultimately, doesn’t DPS always win? I vote for Strongarms.
I use Unity as fourth assessory you used pain supression (even using a cube slot to inc uptime), loosing war cry, is that nessesary?
Ignore Pain is better than WC, largely because it grants immunity from crowd control. Since we don’t get the double shouts from H90, WC is less effective with LoD. However, I do think that once you have the toughness, either wearing Witching Hour and cubing Undisputed or wearing Undisputed and cubing Magefist is the way to go. Even without Pride of Cassius, I think that Ignore Pain should still be on the bar over WC to be an on-demand CC breaker when WotB is down. Depending on how reliable the pulls from Ess of Johan are, it might be possible to take both IP and WC by dropping Ground Stomp. I haven’t tried it, but my gut says that this would be a DPS loss to gain toughness, which is almost never the right answer for pushing.
You used EF wich i disagree on because in high rifts its proc uptime gets lower and lower plus the fear gets annoying, so i opted sankis for the 20% fire.
Yeah, there might be a break-even point when pushing where Sankis could outperform EF. That 75% AS is hard to beat, though, so I’m not convinced that this is a clear-cut win for Sankis.
LoD Frenzy wont beat LoD Hota or S90H but i still believe it can be optimized.
I agree. Sometimes it’s fun to simply play what you want. I was just messing around with a LoD MH electrocute Wizard because I like the playstyle, even though I can only push ~GR100 with it.
The only multi e.g. LoD Fury gains over S90H is cindercoat, magefist and strongarm brace but that will never make up for S90H shouts Aughilds and Travelers Pledge.
Agreed. It’s about 7 GR’s behind just from the double stun/frozen damage and Endless Walk, so maybe 10 GR’s behind overall? It’s hard to exaggerate the effect of double Battlerage: bloodshed. It simply deletes huge packs.
During the PTR feedback, I had pushed for balanced buffs coming from both the set and from legendaries, rather than just buffing the set. I love it when LoD and the set aren’t that far apart.
After doing a few test GR’s, and I’m pretty sure with my gear and paragon GR120 is doable. I finished a series of bad maps in around 20 minutes. I’m using BotT instead of stricken, so it took me exactly 3 minutes to kill the RG. Because of Flavor of Time, if I had gotten a dense rift and well-placed conduit, I probably would have beaten it.
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The LoD and LoN builds are fun, offer a way to use very good and primal items in builds you would not normally be able to.
In the end, they are kind of like dressing in full costume for Halloween…
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Well, then you made a good decision at the time, since at that moment only fear worked on the 2-piece. So EF was then by far the best choice. As for Aughild’s… well, if you take RoRG/Aughilds, then you can’t take CoE. And there’s no particular evidence that Aughild’s is superior. Both options are good.
WH adds about 6.4% from CHD. The extra AS either gets you a breakpoint or lets you substitute a roll elsewhere. If, say, you substitute for damage range on an ancient ring, this gets you another 7% or so, for about 13-14% total damage increase. If you get an extra frame from the AS on the other hand, this will gain you at least 10% damage, for about 17+% increased damage.
If you already have 2 elemental rolls (bracer + amulet), Magefist adds 14.29%. If you already have 3, it’s 12.5%.
Generally, I’d probably lean towards WH.
Comics fan?
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Man this is so cool thx for the replys!
It made me very happy reading them.
So what i gather is:
FoT or Squirts mandatory and shuld be tested and discussed.
dropping unity if we still rely on ess/strongarm + FoT or Squirts with CoE, BoM.
we can drop unity and still sustain because we will utilize Ignore Pain instead of WC and will Undisputed/Pride of Cassius until we can sustain without max uptime of ignore pain.
If we can sustain without ignore pain high uptime we can then opt cubing magefist or undisputed (to wear witching) for more dps.
as rage analysed since with sankis/cindercoat we are already stacking ele damage WH offers more gain than cubing magefist.
being able to sustain and enable squirts would be amazing ima fiddle that right away.
another option in the squirts/FoT, ESS, Coe, BoM,ignore pain cassius stomp variant
would be to drop cindercoat (20%) for aquila (50%) so we can swap stonegauntlets (50%) for magefist (20%) basically lose or gain nothing but gain the boot slot. so we can opt illusory boots for much needed mobility.
thats a lot of hussle and workaround to keep ess/stomp but.
- i still think strongarm stack is nice
- charge just aint my style lol
You need some kind of shield (like, energy shield, not a shield you hold in your hand) in order to make Squirt’s work. For Barb that means you have to take the MW Gizzard gem. Don’t think that’s going to be ideal, since you’ll have to drop Stricken or Simplicity to slot Gizzard.
Yah i imediately realized that in the first test run. otherwise uptime is too low and danger to be onehit too high.
will check out overwhelming desire now if that dont fly it has to be double pylon
Yeah, when I ran the numbers for my character, WH was a ~1% dmg increase, but I actually ended up switching back to cubing magefist because wearing Undisputed was a ~20% toughness increase, lol.
Haha, not an enthusiast or anything. I just keep a list of clever/cool-sounding names whenever I run across them. I started the list when I was brewing beer, just in case I ever sold anything. Craft beers always have the coolest names.
Overwhelming desire has a pretty low DPS increase, but by all means check it out. I can see why you’d be averse to farming a Flavor of Time. It’s probably the hardest item in the game to get!
Nah got several FoTs lying around thats not the issue i just dont like the thought of adding more wiggle to the function thats all.
For my ideal build ease and chill of gameplay is also a factor.
LoD cant record Rift, mightaswell make it fun and chill to play instead of H90S.
But yeah there is no way around FoT…
Haha, bro, if you name a beer “Kuurth the Worthy, Breaker of Stone”, there are going to be some high expectations of that brew!
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High but not insurmountable . . . I volunteer to, err, evaluate.
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Yeah, I’m thinking that would have to be a triple IPA, probably like 15-18% ABV.
“I’m looking for a beer that will hit me like a train.”
“I’ve got just the thing…”
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If I can still remember the last three days when I wake up in a ditch, it’s not strong enough.
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Sink the Bismarck is great but I’m not sure you can still get it
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