Let's talk about cc immunity and phasing altar nodes

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I think this warrants a separate discussion and I didn’t find a dedicated topic.

  1. [Revelation] Gain passability.
  2. [Omen] Gain immunity to crowd-controlling effects.

I personally think those two nodes shouldn’t remain in the game permanently, at least in their current form. It was fine “for a season” when it was done in S28, but given that supposedly this is the version of the altar that is here “to stay” - seeing no changes to them on PTR is a little bit alarming, I think they are more impactful than the number nodes.

Apart from the obvious implications of wallers, jailers, frozens, illusory boots (among many others things) being completely obsoleted - there are deeper issues with the decision of keeping them around forever. This goes beyond the standard power creep, it basically forever removes some mechanics from the game.

I will address two key problems with this.

The first one is that the removal of those mechanics has a profound impact on the game - it will need to go through an adaptation cycle to match those changes, which is not easy for a game going into maintenance mode. It also indirectly damages the tremendous progress that the game has made in the recent years when it comes to making loot better in terms of not having items that “don’t do anything”.

The second one is that I think both cc and unit collision are in a very healthy spot in the game and don’t need such drastic changes. Their value is twofold - on the one hand, there are skills/items that interact with those and while they won’t usually define your playstyle - they are always there to keep in mind when you build the character. You try to identify bottlenecks (e.g. that DH’s vault doesn’t pass through walls) and find those niche items to fix niche problems.

On the other hand, this also creates a more interesting gameplay overall by having more things to keep in mind - “standing in plagued” and “standing in frozen” can have vastly different consequences (especially when you play HC). With those two nodes all of this is gone and I don’t really see the justification for doing something like this.

I played S28 with a couple of different build and I remember that with all of them ignoring walls and cc just felt… wrong. For someone who has played the game since release it felt like a part of the game was just removed. This is fixable, the game has already made a lot of drastic changes with mechanics removals/reworks. But it always needed time to adapt and properly integrate those changes, which I just don’t see happening with the game moving to maintenance mode.

So I’m calling for a nerf/rework for those nodes going forward. If not with the start of the next season, then at least for the season after or patched during the current one. I think an easy fix for Omen (I’d argue it’s the more important one) is to make it have something like 30% CC reduction instead. What to do with Revelation I seriously have no clue. There isn’t really an in-between option to “nerf” it. Wall passage is fairly binary.

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Then maybe just don’t unlock those Altar nodes if you don’t like/want them? :face_with_diagonal_mouth:

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Looks at permanent CC immunity on most DH, barb, and crusader builds while wizard and WD and necro get wrecked

Yep definitely have a “healthy spot” for CC mechanics in this game when half the classes largely ignore them.

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What a well-articulated and thorough post. These are my thoughts exactly.

Please ignore that “Don’t like it don’t use it” doofus of a poster.

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Agreed completely, either huge nerf on those nodes, or removal.

Maybe passability under 50% health would be acceptable in the worst case, but having it as-it-is now is too much.
Same with CC immunity, its too much, in the last Altar season, in team play we talked to the zbarbs so they quit using IP entirely because of this CC immunity, for more speed run buffs.
The result was insane speed meta clear all maps in under 3 minutes at “barely” 5k paragon, that was after 250 hours played at season… it was wayy too much, i understand this is possible to achieve in current season because of soulshards too, since in co-op the supports take 150% bonus damage shards for the team and more to it too…

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CC immunity and passability have been long overdue specially since devs couldn’t work them into the classes that have lacked them for ages while others have enjoyed them as part of their meta builds.

As others have correctly stated, if you want to make the game harder to “challenge” yourself you have the option to not unlock those nodes. This is always THE BEST option, give the player agency in the experience they want to have. I wanted to play a harder game so I went SSF Hardcore and to do so I had to check the boxes enabling them.

If it were up to me all ladder play going forward should be with the recently implemented Paragon cap + SSF + Hardcore but I don’t presume to force that down people’s throats as the OP wants to do in his suggestion.

Furthermore, using the excuse that some random niche legendary will become “obsolete” is rather flimsy since the game has had dozens if not a couple hundred items that are totally obsolete due to changes to sets/builds, etc. It’s what inevitably happens when a game is old and heading into end of life maintenance mode.

In short, CC immunity and passability stay. They are chase perks from the altar that give the player agency and flexibility into tailoring the game experience they want to have.

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Not everyone wants braindead gameplay without ever knowing any tactics and clearing GR 150 without any preparation, only by copy-paste the build and thats all… thats not good in the long term, it was fine for one season, but its too much already.
Games never have balance and it never is “play what you want”, because obviously almost everyone is going after the best builds… it makes no sense at all to say “if you dont want it dont take it” as already others have said… and like i said too, everyone will take it, BUT its too much… it was fine for one season, now its too much.

We already have too broken game balance…

“some meta builds enjoy passability” almost none, only exception of very few LOD or LON builds, or the team play supports… Supports should be smooth because those are the hardest to play in game builds, but adding passability and cc immunity to everyone breaks the entire fun taken from Self-improvement as player…

^ for that reason alone A LOT of players quit playing this game entirely, because they dont see any room for improvement or they have no idea what to do. So… we have it too easy already, and the pace is too fast for many players, so why make it even easier…

These are not QoL altar nodes, those are balance changers for too many cases, both should be removed entirely, or at very least nerfed hard

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“Please nerf -blank- because it makes game too easy for us and we want a challenge”

Anybody who says the above is a liar because the nature of life is to choose the easiest method or the method that will make the future easier and faster and simpler and thus better. If we were not naturally drawn to “easier” then we would still be living in caves and not have air conditioning and stores and most things much less video games.

What they really mean when asking for nerfs is “please make other people suffer for me or with me” because “misery loves company” and some people are masochists.

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Cool then we can remove the CC immunity bonus from all class ultimate skills in the game, like barb WOTB.

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That’s the one sentence that tells me you are completely disconnected from the subject you try so desperately to sound knowledgeable about. There isn’t a single build in this game that can afford to drop a slot to use worthless stuff like Illusory Boots. And if you know everything and just want to argue that we should balance the game around people who don’t even play something as simple as D3 optimally, then you’re even more of a clown than I thought lol.

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Well, there’s always a way to think out of the box… let’s say we remove those nodes. It would be very simple to bring similar mechanics back in some way or another. Just one example:

Let followers use some more legendary gems and have them emanate.
→ Invigorating Gemstone will take care of control impairing effects.
Let Illusionary Boots effect emanate.
Then go and equip the follower accordingly…

And that’s job done. For solo, at least. And that’s where it matters most.

Not that I would suggest it to be that way. From my perspective as a wizard player and SSF only player on top of that, I have no complaints regarding those nodes.

So all you nerf this, nerf that guys should keep in mind that you are not the only ones playing this game. There will always be things you personally don’t approve off. Some others will, though…

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I like my cc immunity and passability. My build would be crunched without passability, which means I’d need to go Illu boots, and without cc immunity, i’d need ice climbers. Because Stone gauntlets effect is just that powerful that it cannot be given up.

Keep it as is, Altar was already nerfed heavily.

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Why dont you just stop playing the game then since we’re just going to remove enemy mechanics wholesale?

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There are many people that don’t like then others have fun. Seems OP one of them.

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I’m not even gonna comment on the topic cause I don’t really care whether it stays or doesn’t.

But anyone who unironically uses the “don’t like it, don’t use it” argument is mentally challenged.

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Yep. And vengeance for demon hunters.
Of course the two nodes should stay. (Playing Tal Rasha in s28 I got plenty wormholed because that’s not a CC effect).

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Resorting to insults is a really good way to make your point–not. It says more about you than me.
Happy hunting, Nephalem.

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Ah, insults. Lovely. OP has the option to not use the two Altar nodes in question, but wants to take away the option to use them for everyone else. And I’m mentally challenged for pointing this out?

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Begone Fun Police. 20char

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Seems like an appropriate measure for someone who resorts to “Don’t like it don’t use it”—almost never a valid argument. Instead of jumping to accuse people of “insulting” you, perhaps you should think about why they are treating you that way.

Yep you are. Let me help you out: “choosing” not to use the Altar won’t stop others from using it, ensuring your disadvantage. So it’s not an option at all for people that care about being on an equal footing. Simple logic.

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