Legendary Gems Rebalance

There are a multitude of Legendary Gems that are useful even for endgame players, although some of them could still use some adjustment.

One such gem is the Bane of the Powerful. It gives:
+20% DMG for 30 (+1/level) seconds after killing an elite pack.
Level 25 Bonus: +15% Damage versus Elites & 15% less damage from elites

This amounts to a very minimal bonus. The extra time from levels quickly becomes unecessary; it’s 60s at L30, 100s at L70, 180s at L150, and even with it active 100% of the time it’s not helping as much as other legendary gems even in its best-case scenario situation.

Increasing the damage bonus and reducing the duration will bring this gem back in the game. Increase damage by +50% for 20s (+0.5s per level).
Level 25 Bonus: +15% Damage versus Elites & 15% less damage from elites

In the best-case scenario for this gem where it’s L150 and the 95s duration granted by that is enough to keep it up 100% of the time, the player will be looking at +72.5% damage against elites, -15% damage from elites, and +50% damage against everything else. Compare this to other gems that add 60-100% damage and it’s basically trading off some of the damage against normal mobs for a bit of damage reduction against elites. At L1 players doing Rifts in 2-3 minutes will experience 100% uptime. At L25, 4-6 minutes. At L75, 10-12 minutes. By L100 it lasts 60 seconds and should be up around 100% of the time even in slow rifts unless the player gets stuck going longer than usual without killing an elite pack. By L150 at 95 seconds it should be able to even last through a long Juggernaught fight or a gap without Elites. This is compared to other gems that give more damage than that against everything which includes elites, on all of the damage that they’re dealing. So it won’t become an automatic all-powerful gem, but at least it will serve a useful purpose for some builds that don’t benefit as well from options like Bane of the Trapped, Taeguk, or Simplicity’s Strength. It will be particularly useful for players that haven’t gotten the gem to a high level but are doing fast bounties or rifts. It’s called Bane of the Powerful. It should be good against more than trash.

Invigorating Gemstone - Each hit done increases healing received by 1% (+0.02% per level) for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 10 times.
Level 25 Bonus: You are Immune to Control-Impairing effects.

This healing amounts to a max of +40% healing received with a level 150 Gem. 40% Healing Received is less valuable than 30% damage reduction which amplifies healing and toughness by even more. That extra healing amounts to very little, compared to what other Legendary gems have to offer. This gem doesn’t increase damage. It doesn’t help teammates. It doesn’t reduce damage taken which is a more valuable defensive trait. It heals, which doesn’t stop you from getting 1-hit but does help keep you healed after. Even if that healing were a more significant amount than a damage bonus or toughness bonus, it would still be a less valuable benefit. That’s why I have to suggest such a dramatic increase:
Invigorating Gemstone - Each hit done increases healing received by 3% (+0.06% per level) for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 10 times.
Level 25 Bonus: You are Immune to Control-Impairing effects.

The new max for this gem at Level 150 would be +120% Healing Received with a Level 150 Gem. That’s a lot of healing, yes, but without giving you any toughness to make that healed health last longer. It would still not be the first pick for a surviving gem.

Mutilation Guard - Gain 10% melee damage reduction. (+0.5% per Rank).
Level 25 Bonus: While below 50% Life, you may move through enemies unhindered.

This caps out as a 60% reduction to melee damage. It could be compared to another gem that gives +60% non-physical damage reduction. With both gems, the player is still taking full damage from physical ranged attacks. The other gem also increases resistances by a drastic amount when below 50% Life, which is a very helpful L25 bonus. This gem is only reducing damage from melee attacks, which are easy to see coming and aren’t usually what players who need a defensive gem are worried about getting killed by. As such, it should reduce that damage taken by an amount significant enough to help even though it’s not contributing againt so many other sources of damage. The L25 bonus of moving through enemies when health is below 50% is an interesting idea to limit it to being used for surviving and not getting trapped, but that limitation severely impacts the usefulness of the gem. If the player isn’t dying, they can’t even move through enemies, and it isn’t helping. They might even be in combat and be getting attacked by many enemies, but if they’re taking the hits fine and not dropping under half, they can’t even move unhindered. Here is my suggestion:
Mutilation Guard - Gain 20% melee damage reduction. (+0.5% per Rank).
Level 25 Bonus: While below 90% Life, you may move through enemies unhindered.

This brings it up to 70% melee damage reduction at max level, which is now helping more significantly against melee attacks to make up for not protecting the player from anything else. The L25 bonus will still not be active 100% of the time so as to not replace other unhindered movement items, but now the player can pretty reliably move through enemies while in combat.

Enforcer Gem Increases the damage of your pets by 15% (+0.3% per Rank.
Level 25 Bonus: Your pets take 90% less damage

This amounts to +45% Pet damage at L100 and +60% at L150 along with keeping your pets alive, which can help but at best this just means your pets are alive as they should be and dealing +45% damage, while other gems easily provide the player with more damage that can easily be applied to all of the damage they’re dealing. Pet damage builds are not very common. Pet builds are already less effective; they don’t need further nerf at the legendary gem for them by not gaining as much damage from it as other builds can from the gems made for them. The player has to make a lot of sacrifices to design a build where all of their damage output is coming from pet damage; and even then they still don’t get much damage. I suggest a modest improvement:
**Enforcer Gem - Increases the damage of your pets by 20% (+0.4% per Rank).
Level 25 Bonus: Your pets take 90% less damage
This brings the new L150 cap up to +80% pet damage.

Moratorium - 35% of all damage taken is instead staggered and dealt to you over 3.00 seconds. (0.1s per level)
Level 25 Bonus: 20% on kill to clear staggered damage.

At level 150, best-case-scenario as long as the player is slaughtering enemies at a rate where they’re probably clearing rifts in 2-5 minutes, the gem amounts to almost 35% damage reduction, with the player still taking small amounts of the staggered damage before it is cleared. That’s not very good considering that it’s taking up a spot a different Legendary Gem could have gone in. It’s only helping you survive when you’re killing fast, and if you’re killing fast, then you aren’t doing the highest difficulty that your damage can handle; so it’s only helping you survive when you’re too weak to survive enemies that you’re already slaughtering, and even then it stops helping you as soon as you’re done slaughtering the trash mobs and trying to finish the Elites; which is exactly when you no longer have so many enemies to heal from hitting. With such selective usefulness, it should at least be the best survivability gem for that very specific scenario. Which is why I suggest:

Moratorium - 60% of all damage taken is instead staggered and dealt to you over 3.00 seconds. (0.1s per level)
Level 25 Bonus: 20% on kill to clear staggered damage.

This amounts to nearly 60% damage reduction. Bear in mind that if the player is killing 5 enemies in 5 seconds which is typical for a 6-10 minute rift, then even with a level 150 Gem they’ll be taking on average about 30% of the staggered damage before it gets cleared. If the player is slaughtering 5 enemies every second, then they’re still taking over 5% of the staggered damage which means they’re reducing their total damage taken by 55% in that situation. Clearing staggered damage before it’s carried out over its full duration doesn’t mean not taking any of the staggered damage at all. The damage is suffered over time, which means that players still take some of that stagger damage before they clear it.

Iceblink is a fantastic support Gem. I already use it to support teammates. +10% Crit Chance is like +15% damage for team members. It’s also causing all of my cold skills to slow enemies to a crawl. There’s a big difference between 60% slow and 85% slow. As far as support gems go, I think support builds are already effective enough, and it doesn’t need a buff for support.
Iceblink - Your Cold skills deal +5% (+0.3%/level) increased damage and now apply Chill effects and your Chill effects now slow enemy movement speed by an additional 10%.
Enemies you chill have a 10% increased chance to be critically hit. This bonus is doubled on enemies that are frozen. (Requires Rank 25)

The maximum level of the gem would be raised to 150. This would be +50% damage to cold skills for the player, and enemies slowed by the gem would still be moving at 30% speed rather than 15% speed, but the player would be dealing more damage, and if they’re freezing and not just chilling enemies, then they’ll be providing even more damage for themselves or support for the team through crit chance than they were just with the chilling. The gem will now be better suited to soloing players or players who want to be a damage dealer on a team while still supporting the other members of the team.

3 Likes

I regret to say, a some of these suggestions and tweaks are just uninteresting.

  • Enforcer and Bane of the Trapped are on perfect parity; same damage bonus. Enforcer has an added effect and trumps Trapped when pets can take damage.

  • Invigorating Gem is limited by the “healing received” clause. If it was reworded to include healing, LpS/LpH/LoK, it may be more interesting. It would have new interactions with certain legendary powers and abilities.

  • Bane of the Powerful is, well, powerful. It’s tricky. If it make it too good, it becomes the best gem in the game, bar none. If Powerful was tweaked to increase (scaling) damage for a flat time frame, it would encourage an elite-hunt philosophy, which some builds focus on. It could possibly be .25% damage a level for a flat 60 seconds. That works out to 57.5% damage + 15% DR/Damage to elites; which makes it the best gem in the game as long as you can keep the buff up.

  • Where’s Iceblink in this mix? It could easily be 40% critical hit chance and only apply to chills/freezes you apply. This is a knife in the back for supports and helps swing closed the gap between solo and group play. Very important.

  • Mutilation Guard is pretty predictable. Just make it physical damage reduction. It even makes thematic sense. It should probably be 80%.

  • Moratorium is a weird gem. I think you hit the nail on the head with your 60% flat DR suggestion. Seems reasonable.

  • I have no good suggestions for fixing Mirinae, Toxin, Pain Enhancer and Wreath of Lightning. Wreath could easily function as a scaled-down conduit. Weapon damage in general does not scale well when multipliers are exceeding 20,000%.

    Currently, the most accurate damage formula I can find for conduit is 610248.7×(Min:0.4 - Max:0.5)×GR Life Multiplier; Wreath does 5,000%. Nearly trivial.
    
    • Finally, my own personal pet peeve. WHERE IS THE FIRE LEGENDARY GEM?
1 Like

Well there’s the anniversary gem. * Goes off to snicker in a corner *

Here’s a better suggestion…

REMOVE ALL DAMAGE BUFFS from the legendary gems, and turn them all into utility gems.
That way, you don’t need to balance them and bring them up to par with each other.
Instead, people will use the gems that best compliment their build.

1 Like

There’s an immediate flaw in that reasoning, and it’s not insignificant. All these legendary gems that do damage will need new powers.

Edit: Two flaws, all GR clears will go down. You will lose power between patchs.

This means the flaw is very important. You forgot to mention what it is.

I used “But” instead of “and”. That’s what you call a typo. Happens. I fixed it.

I believe most people would consider it an improvement, not a flaw.

The idea is to remove power to deny further power creep, while the OP’s suggestion instead enforces it.

It is understandable that it might be too late for this, but you never know. Maybe their lead devs will read this and say, “**** it! Let’s do this! It’s time to show these noobs what we’re made of!”

1 Like

It’s not so much creep as in balancing. All the really bad gems get better, but the powerful ones stay as they are.

Besides, if they nerf people this late in the game’s life, there’s a possibility those people never come back.

Why do we need to open new topics every few weeks? There are already nice suggestions for the next patch in the following topic
Legendary gem suggestions for patch 2.7

3 Likes

You’re thinking them as individuals. Those gems are designed for getting paired with other traits and other gems. Buffing them won’t achieve much or only increase the powercreep.

Invigorating is a go-to for certain classes with no ultimate transform ability to ignore crowd control for example, also it pairs well with dodge (Gogok or Agility Mantra in 4p) for a faster recovery.
BotP doesn’t have to be viable at endgame as its only purpose is feeding Nemesis Bracers and fast farming also you can stack other items, such as SoJ to stack more IDaElites%.
No strong opinion on rest but sounded like more power creep by increasing the lowest base values. Esoteric and Mutilation already has a play on late Greater Rifts, just they cater to the different builds; you’re buffing zdps specs if. Most of the time you can see Illusory boots but other times for set items you might see Mutilation just as common for tank specs.

Lastly, Moratorium has a bug that sometimes disable your cheat-death abilities (I think it’s because the staggered damage over time ignores the recent buffs coming from triggering the cheat-death) that’s why it’s not even considered on late game, not because its unviable or not good enough.
Higher staggered damage may cause more complications due to that.

Fair point. But at some point in the last 10 years, I realized it doesn’t matter what feedback we offer, reason out, or provide. The forums are for passionate players to discuss the game, and for Blizzard to do whatever they want with their game.

The problem is that “all those really bad gems get bigger numbers to look like they got better”.
If you have a bad gem that gives you 30% DR and you buff it to 70% DR, it will not change anything for the game design that focuses on dealing more damage so you can progress further.

As long as the game revolves around farming power and being the fastest killer, people will choose items that give them even more power. For instance, bane of the powerful will never replace stricken in high GRs, so what’s the point of giving it more damage? You already use it for farming because you kill things fast anyway. Heck, you’d be killing stuff at the same rate even if you didn’t use it (considering you have 1k paragon with nice gear).

The main point is that these kind of buffs will just make early game a bit easier and that’s it. We all know early game is ridiculously easy. We might as well ask Blizzard to give us a full primal set and supporting legendaries when we finish first 4 chapters of season journey.

1 Like

Yes, it would be useful early to mid game. It would be basically useless in late game, when damage is king. Which is also why your first thought on power creep is wrong. :wink:

Care to elaborate?
I can also say you are wrong with no argument. Doesn’t make me right.

If you don’t see it, I’m not sure I can explain it any better than you said yourself. HP scales faster than monster damage. Late game, only damage matters. Which is why buffing the damage reduction L gems worries me not the slightest. It simply won’t make any difference late game.

It might make the gems more useful for low to mid paragon levels. That’s good enough for a win.

Moratorium

  • 35% + 0.1% per level of all damage taken is instead staggered and dealt to you over 5 seconds.
  • Level 25: 15% chance on hit to clear all staggered damage. On elite & riftguardian kill the staggered damage is cleared

a suggestion of the other topic. i tried this gem myself on R6 Monk and it is frustrating as hell to die after 80% of the elites or riftguardians through the staggered damage. Also the aspect of extending the time doesnt help too.

You do realize that even in early game people don’t use defensive buffs that often, unless they are pushing?

You are practically saying people will use all those useless gems, if their numbers are buffed higher.
I am saying, they will just use the ones that give them more damage. And since you’re buffing some of the early game damage gems, they will make early game even more ridiculous than it is.

This kind of buff suggestion is basically asking for handouts because people are too lazy to spend more time or effort.

No one in their right mind would use the healing, DR, or utility gems in early game or solo late game, when there are damage gems available that provide way more value to the character.
You live in a fantasy world!

I think this kind of optional defensive gem would be nice. have you every tried to play a decend R6 Monk without much paragon? i dont mind on 2 lvl less compared to not dying all over. A BotT wont make more difference.

At high end you could swap out a defensive skill or gearpeace for a defensive gem

1 Like

Only gaining the damage bonus against slowed enemies is a lot better than only gaining the bonus damage to pets, especially when the gem itself slows enemies to guarantee the damage bonus. It’s easy to have everything you’re fighting slowed or hit by some control-impairing effect, so that gem can work with just about any build. Even with a pet build, a player might have had a damage-dealing ability or effect that wasn’t a pet. But now, with this gem, they must give that up and use only pets. That’s extremely limiting, so it needs to be stronger than more flexible options to make up for that. My suggested buff to it doesn’t make it the strongest damage buffing gem; there is still stronger. But it will make it not far from the few that are stronger than it, as it should be, since it is so limited in its use.

I thought it worked with those, I haven’t tested it. “Healing received” should include all forms of healing. If it doesn’t, then it should also be buffed to include all healing in addition to my suggested buff to its percentage.

Let’s not forget about Simplicity’s Strength, which gives +100% damage to primary skills, Stone of Vengeance, which gives up to +80% damage based on distance and also gives a very impressive stun chance, Taeguk which gives +80% damage and +20% armor, and Bane of the Stricken, which can pretty hastily build up well over +100% damage against targets, and in long fights can end up giving over +200% damage. None of the buffs I’m suggesting would make the gems better than the ones just mentioned.

Iceblink is a fantastic support Gem. I already use it to support teammates. +10% Crit Chance is like +15% damage for team members. It’s also causing all of my cold skills to slow enemies to a crawl. There’s a big difference between 60% slow and 85% slow. As far as support gems go, I think support builds are already effective enough, and it doesn’t need a buff for support. I did think about adding something to it to make it more effective for use on actual damaging builds to help close the SP/MP gap, and I had decided not to include it because I felt like it was too many different effects on one gem, but I’ll add it to my original post anyway since you’ve asked. My suggestion was to change it to:
Your Cold skills deal +5% (+0.3%/level) increased damage and now apply Chill effects and your Chill effects now slow enemy movement speed by an additional 10%.
Enemies you chill have a 10% increased chance to be critically hit. This bonus is doubled on enemies that are frozen. (Requires Rank 25)

The maximum level of the gem would be raised to 150. This would be +50% damage to cold skills for the player, and enemies slowed by the gem would still be moving at 30% speed rather than 15% speed, but the player would be dealing more damage, and if they’re freezing and not just chilling enemies, then they’ll be providing even more damage for themselves or support for the team through crit chance than they were just with the chilling. The gem will now be better suited to soloing players or players who want to be a damage dealer on a team while still supporting the other members of the team.

Yeah, I didn’t feel like touching any of those. Toxin is still useful as a support gem. Toxin and Pain Enhancer can be somewhat useful on builds that make DoTs deal their damage instantly, when you have both of those gems up to nearly 10,000% damage. For the most part damage abilities and effects just aren’t useful because they don’t benefit from the biggest damage multipliers players get.