This is the EXACT mantra that they live by XD
Literally as I mentioned it should just be “every class has one good group DPS build at least, and a support build” Why this isn’t already a thing is beyond me.
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Part of the problem is the very specific nature of certain support abilities. Barbs have Spear and Stomp, which is basically the whole ballgame right there. And, some great defensive buffs thrown on top. To make another support competitive with zbarb, you would need to do one of 3 things:
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Get rid of Spear and Stomp. Just take them out of the game. Personally, I think that’s a terrible idea, but it would do the trick.
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Recreate Spear and Stomp in another class. You basically need both abilities to do the job right- one pull that moves enemies in a straight line, and another that packs them tight. So, basically, you just give another class the exact same powers, though I’m sure you’d call them something different. Again, this seems kind of lame.
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Have a zdps build that adds so much damage potential that it overcomes the potential damage added by zbarb grouping. Like zDH with Entangling Shot and Odyssey’s End, but much greater in magnitude: at least a 5x damage multiplier and possibly more. This is probably the only one of these three options that has any real merit. If you tuned it right, you could see a situation where the new zdps build was better for lazy 150 runs, whereas the grouping of zBarb would still be best for getting the best time possible.
But still: are you going to do that for every other class?
The fact of the matter is that every class already has a group dps build and a support build. Support Crusader or Support WD certainly could be a thing, but nobody uses those because they’re worse. If they were better, then everybody would use them, and nobody would use anything else. Frenzy Barb makes a very good RGK, but nobody has ever used it because it’s always been a little worse than other available options. Etc, etc…
There just isn’t much latitude given in terms of performance. If a group build (support, dps, rgk, whatever) is just 10% worse than the top option, it’ll be only seldom played. If it’s 20% worse, nobody will ever play it, with the exception of maybe some group of friends just messing around.
And finally: does anybody really think Blizz has the wherewithal to do a full group rebalancing rework, and do it right?
What seems like the more likely outcome- that they do such a thing… and everything works out great? Or that they do it… and it’s a complete disaster?
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Way, way back in the long ago before times, a healing Crusader was a thing for a season. Then they changed Consecration to no longer stack, and that was the end of that.
Oh man, that hurt to read. xD I would never want to try to make the game better by nerfing something that someone or some class does so well. Though, blizzard is really great at “fixing” things by total removal as seen over the years.
My short bursts of irritation come in the form of how vastly and wildly different the power levels are and this directly correlates into paragon (big shocker). Wherein the problem with tuning the game (which good lord they really need some help to this end), lies entirely with whatever specific mentality they bring for this whole paragon system. I remember a mention or concept being around a certain power level with 5k gons. And that’s all well and good, but the problem with such a goal is that even when you consider time investment on a scale of regularity, it’s still quite a time investment to even reach that.
Granted, hitting 5k on a season often isn’t even remotely necessary to complete the Greater Rift side of the challenge. Which has been quite a nice breath of air, so no complaints there, yet it still feels like a task and then some.
I agree with this mostly. And I’m not even greedy about wanting to be “as good” or efficient as the best. There’s always gonna be a meta, and for the most part that’s fine! I think that a certain delta could be better illustrated for the spirit of the game. Like, every class should have a high performing build within this metric. To their credit, there’s a bit more balance recently due to some level of buffing and I won’t look a gift horse in the mouth. I would definitely never pretend to have the exact knowledge as someone who’s actually done research and math to support their arguments. This is mostly coming from a slightly disgruntled barbarian who’s put thousands of hours in and wanting a neat powerhouse build. Or really, just a better paragon system xD; But buffs are much more likely lbh.
Dammit Rage. Here I am having an interesting and fun time reading your post, and then you make me choke on my soda when I get to this part. You did that on purpose. xD
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Crusaders are basically paladins. I don’t understand why they are such horrid support.
Yeah, Wudijo was right that Barb is in a pretty great position when it comes to overall balance within the class. The newly buffed HOTAs may well end up being nearly as strong as Rend. Frenzy and Leapquake just need fairly small buffs, with Slam and Charge needing somewhat more help… Raekor is a special case, since the problem isn’t that it’s not strong (now our 2nd or 3rd strongest build), but that its mechanics are just really screwed up and hardly anybody likes to play it.
Personally, I would think it was great if they balanced all sets for all classes to within a few GRs of each other, then never touched them again. I’d rather have that stable base to build on, and then seasonal themes could mix things up to keep the game fresh.
As it is now, the seasonal themes, in a sense, hardly matter. Rend Barb + Ethereals or Rend Barb + Soul Shards are still much weaker than Inna Monk + nothing.
Every part of this. xD My one thing when it comes to barb builds for the most part, is that they’re enjoyable to play. The only thing I’ve ever really disliked was raekor, and it was ONLY because of being easily able to ruin your stacks if you got a bit lazy or ended up with a bad split of mobs. The concept of bull rushing into mobs is in and of itself, quite entertaining.
It hurt my SOUL to already see 36 quad hits on my monk on a two CoE cycle’s worth of stricken. I can’t imagine how fast Inna’s stacks stricken to achieve such a power boost in such a short time. But to not even sweat a 146 rift guardian with sub 2 minutes is such a mindblowing experience to me as a primarily barbarian player. I of course don’t want ridiculousness quite like that, but if I could get rid of 4-5 minute boss fights WITH a stricken gem, i’d be all for it for sure c:
Nevertheless, one of the greatest strengths about barb builds to me, is that they’re all so deceptively entertaining. They’re SO simplistic, but I feel like they’re great at being enjoyable. I’ve nodded off while playing WW before, but that was also behind a 12 hour gameplay session too xD So part of that’s on me.
I’m glad Remorseless got a buff tbh. I will welcome more variety of builds that are similarly capable any day of the week.
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This was always our goal. And we’re nearly there, and in no small amount because of the work that we–and the Barb community as a whole–put in to convincing the devs to fix Barbs.
The Barb class is indeed in a really good spot. A few small buffs here and there, and an overhaul to Raekor that maintains parity, and we have the most balanced selection of major builds across all classes. I recall some chart nut a while back complaining how Rend was too strong and needed to be nerfed, but as we pointed out then, that was a failure to see the big picture.
Barbs are very nearly the example of balance in D3. Hope the devs tighten the screws and do the same for other classes before the game is finally laid to rest.
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Rend is OP cause 10k dark patatoes cleared 140 on the PTR. OOFFF!!!
We still want that nerf reverted.
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That’s some very hopeful thinking. xD
I agree really. Pushing on a barb out of all classes with multiple builds feels the most rewarding. Minor buffs to rift guardian fights for some of our builds would be amazing. Just something to shift the amount of time spent on elites and guardians. But even then, this desire really boils down to MoTE. Since I’ve never had a real problem with guardian fights on Frenzy, Hota, or Wrend. A juicy Raekor rework would be so amazing, I’d love to do something with that build again (not just another HOTA build either for the love of god).
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Unless your problem is killing the guardian too fast!
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Well played. >:}
Also! Happy Holidays to everyone here!
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You must be a blast at parties. Log in to troll a post for a game you dont even play?
Cringe.
Yes, yes he is a blast. Why just the other day when he was plowing at his 125th party, I thought 
“hmmmm Free, you’ve made this party a blast again”.
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Barb #1 suck class in game!
A few updates on the season…
We’ve been seeing some very good clears using LOD HOTA. First Rob’s 145 at about 2.4k paragon, which was rank 1 Barb worldwide for a bit. For this clear, he dropped BR: Bloodshed and used a WW + Spear + Stomp setup for grouping, letting Rings of Fire do a lot of the heavy lifting. There’s video of this clear on his youtube channel for anybody interested.
This has since been displaced by Wario’s 147 at about 2.9k paragon, which uses WW + Stomp, but still takes BR: Bloodshed.
Meanwhile, the first 150 is in: Soulnsane’s clear with about 3.7k paragon, using Rend.
It’s really looking like LOD HOTA and Rend are going to be neck-and-neck, both in Season 25 and Era 15!
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I’ve been seeing this and I’ve been VERY curious to put together a LoD HOTA build during the season. Since I don’t have it yet, I’m wondering what the speed run capability of this build is!
LoD HoTA is awesome this season. Was able to clear 90s easily with really sub standard gear and without using soul shards. Like real stupid gear. And fast. Very fast :-D.
Not getting much time to play Mon-Sat. I hope you guys put up some clears and videos in the future and I will try to follow. This weekend will be the only long weekend I will have in a long time and hoping to amass some reasonable gear →
Profile → https://us.diablo3.com/en-us/profile/Anwin-6258/hero/129289224
LoD Hota eh… hmmm might look at that when back from my holiday.
Not near PC for a few more days but I’m guessing it’s a fire build?
Yes, HoTA fire build
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