When you get as good as this guy, maybe I’ll listen to what you have to say.
So because he streams hes good? I have better gear on my barb then both Raxx and Wudi combined.
2 Likes
This is what’s known as a logical fallacy and gaslighting. You’re making ridiculous, blanket statements by way of opinion and assumption. Seems like a pretty solid way to make a point.
1 Like
Wudi says nothing about Blizzard adjusting drop rates to lower chances for the best builds.
He also says that first of all you should focus on getting the key items needed to run T16 fast by crafting, upgrading, reforging. After that you concentrate on running rifts and greater rifts.
If you then near the end of season really want to push you can do a lot of reforging and upgrading to get the best versions of key items in your build… if you haven’t already gotten them by rifts and GRs.
On another note Wudi is famous for sometimes spending a day or two just running bounties just to do a crazy amount of reforges. He usually sets a goal of getting a certain amount of paragon points, maybe 3K and then concentrate on making top solo clears… like spending up to 5,000 keys to do a 150 clear with the help of a season theme (the season where a snowball or a tornado could kill a rift guardian if you were lucky).
Another expert like Raxx gives the advice of doing as few bounties as possible and rely on getting gear by drops and gambling.
Listen to a guy that has video proof of how good he is or some random poster in the forums. Not that hard of a decision.
Gaslighting is the new buzzword that social media trolls use when they don’t agree with someone. I tell you what, make a wizard and see how long it takes to get a Deathwish to drop for you, let alone a good one. Post after post speak to this gear or that being rare drops and blizzard is know for doing it. Ever played WoW? How about D2 or D2R. Do you remember how much an Echoing Fury went for on the Real Money Auction house? If every thing drops at the same rate, then why is there so many people on the leaderboards that still have non ancient gear pieces. So yeah, Bizzard has been shown to tweak drop rates. Why you don’t think they are doing it in D3 is beyond me.
But according to Chris here, you should not do any reforging. Period. He is really good at trying to change the topic on post from improving an already existing mechanic to “Why are you even doing that.” He really wants to make sure you know that according to him you are wasting your time doing anything other than running endless Rifts/GRs. This is not the first time he has tried to hijack one of my post to push his agenda.
Yes, exactly! Some items are rare (Starmetal Kukri, Kridershot in the old days?) But I believe that you claimed that set items drop rates were changing in rarity so that if Inna is strong Inna set items suddenly get a lower drop rate.
To get a Deathwish sword for example it makes sense to use the upgrade rare and reforge option.
I probably missed that. I believe he once said that in a good part of the season he played in groups for 6 or 8 hours a day on average.
I tell you what, in about 5 mins the season ends. If you haven’t already cleared out your bags and you collect various gear sets, not just one, then when you open your message with all the gear in your stash, tell me if you see even numbers of gear spread out of all the sets you collect. I’m willing to bet that you will see multiple ancients, or well rolled non, of one set or another while others have only one. If I’m correct than please explain to me how this happens if the sets have the exact same drop rate. Statistics/RNG only goes so far in this.
Yes. That is what I am saying which is go far the guaranteed upgrade. Get the paragon and let the gear come naturally. All gear no matter the place it comes from have the same chance. You are choosing to reforge one item when you can just run rifts and have a chance at 13 slots and that paragon.
1 Like
Season ended long ago in my region and I have salvaged most of the stuff I won’t need. I don’t recognise that drop rates are that off as you claim. But I get where the notion comes from. Like when I gambled for Inna gloves (even though I had lots of good ones already) but kept getting Sunwuko gloves over and over… until suddenly Inna gloves started coming in droves (not in droves actually of course but sometimes two in the same gambling session).
You also obviously don’t get RoRG for the cube and ancient Crimson’s or Aughild’s etc by running rifts.
I don’t know. He’s pretty decent. He knows how mechanics work indepth and can be pretty helpful. Also I got quite a few primals from reforging so I can’t dismiss it altogether but I know how low the odds are.
It’s a well known fact that rare upgrades from Cube and gambling from Kadala have some threshold. Some items do not appear in the cold open session unless you spent the minimum amount of bloodshards or attempted to upgrade a certain amount of rares. There are excel sheets out there, but nobody can say a thing for sure about loot you got from monsters.
Imagine this; your first guaranteed Primal for clearing GR70+ is a very useful godlike Set piece you wanted, would you be under the assumption of Blizzard trying to deliberately rigging the system at all? It’s some borderline bias.
That is fine at first, but at some point your needs change from gearing overall to needing just that one or two pieces to be upgraded. Turns out my bad luck with the Mara chest piece has been over several seasons as I still do not have an ancient even in non season. Now considering this, do you really think my odds are better running grs where I get 8 random pieces rather than taking the time to run split bounties that normally take 6-8 mins each and get 4-5 chances to upgrade my chest piece. I currently have 42k souls and various amounts of bounty mats. I really don’t even have to think about which will produce the needed chest faster.
And you can’t reforge crafted gear so you have to run bounties to get enough mats to roll good ones. Any leftovers are good for reforging gear. Which is how it usually works for me. I really did not do any reforging until the last couple of weeks. That’s because I was playing monk(like most everybody) for the majority of the season and jut got back to playing DH a couple of weeks ago. When I realized I had not gotten a few pieces of ancient gear, I started to Kadala->Upgrade->reforge to get it. And that is why I suggested that Blizz should increase the odds while reforging since it does take additional effort to do it. Kind of like how they made Hellforged necklaces always roll with sockets so as to increase the odds of getting a good one. The socket was not guaranteed originally. People pointed out that they had to farm the keys, beat the bosses, and then forge the item. Blizz listened and tweaked the outcome. Now I know they are no longer a part of any pushing gear, but that is only because of the upgraded Squirt’s Necklace. Point being is that making suggestions sometimes gets results.
1 Like
Here are the drop rates that go for everyone. https://d3.maxroll.gg/d3-gamble-calculator.
Some items are gated by level if you’re not 70 yet, and you need to solo GR70 to get primals. Otherwise these are the drop rates, and you have your usual 1 in 10 for ancients, 1 in 400 for primals. It’s mostly determined by how many legendaries/set item there are of each item type, so you can play around that a bit. For example there are lots of legendary belts, but very few pants, so if you’re gambling for your first set pieces, you can gamble for the pants that are competing with relatively few other pants.
While for me trying to set up a typhon hydra wizard, I have a great opportunity to craft and upgrade rare wands, because there are only 10 wands I can upgrade to, and I can use two of them for my build, three if you include the T16 version, so 2-3 out of 10 rare wands will produce an equipable weapon for me. While I wouldn’t bother with that method for a belt for example.
I think would’ve had a stronger character if you had stuck with an ancient dex, armour, sentry chest, and kept doing GRs for XP instead of running bounties for the reforges. Even if you had crafted your dex-vit-sentry chest (which you didn’t, the bounties were complete waste of time), the paragon, the gem ups and possibility to find upgrades for the chest and the other 12 slots running GRs would’ve made you stronger.
For someone playing as much as chris, you’ll find good enough gear from GRs on your main. Then bounties that may or may not give you a 0.2% upgrade from a perfect primal is certainly is not worth it. Similarly, someone at low paragon, say 2k or lower, their paragon is so valuable, and it comes so quickly, and chances are you have multiple slots that could use upgrades, and gem ups for augments are more relevant. While reforging could give you big upgrades, not running GRs is just too high opportunity cost.
I do think there are some cases where running bounties is the best move though, such as gearing up an alt that is not welcome in groups. Again my wizard. I farmed XP on monk this season, like everyone else, but I’m still wizard main, and the XP was mostly for my wiz. To gear it up, I did a little toon-swapping for gambling, I got carried through GR90s a bit by friends, I upgraded a lot of rares, and I ran a fair bit GR90s myself. And jewelry I could carry over from my monk. But despite all the rare upgrading, I didn’t get a great weapon (difficult roll: damage range, AD, IAS, +% damage and orange range, all very important stats) but had close to perfect items in other slots, so as I approached my target paragon and wanted to start pushing, it made sense for me to run bounties to get a better weapon. After about 500-1000 bounty mats I got a primal weapon (int, vit, reroll into IAS/AD depending on breakpoints), which was a big upgrade over pre-reforge. Bigger upgrade for my wiz than running more GRs on the monk would’ve been I think. A bit lucky with the early primal, but otoh it wasn’t a good roll on the primal (and I had reforged ancients that were not much behind).
I think there can be cases around like 3-4k paragon as well, if you’ve been unlucky with a weapon/amulet/ring slot and still have big space for upgrade, but paragon points are starting to come in slower, and maybe getting harder to find groups towards mid-end of season. And you’re approaching your final pushing stage. Then running some bounties to ugprade that weak spot might be worth the time. I did that on my monk, that hadn’t found a trifecta travelers pledge (or well, one, but 8.5% cc and 58% CHD which wasn’t an upgrade) at I think 3.3k paragon. Especially how that ammy is easy to roll well with the default CHD, I think that was a correct call. I didn’t get any great roll for the ammy, only a small upgrade (but great trifectas for lightning, arcane and cold though 
), but I still think spending a couple hundred bounty mats on it was worth it. I think. Not for the wizard of course, maybe should’ve just run GRs to get moar XP for my 
wiz , screw the monk? 
But bounties to upgrade a dex-armour-sentry chest at 2.5k paragon? Definitely not worth it I think, even if you were about to start pushing. It’s only defense. Idk how squishy your marauder flavour is, but even if you wanted to move 100 paragon points over to vit to compensate, 500 dex would be a bit below 2% damage for you right? You’d be about 25-30k dex? And it’s a drop you’re quite likely to get through gambling and upgrading rares anyway.
Soory about the wall of text. 
GL S26.
3 Likes
Guys, you make it sound as if I was running bounties all the time instead of GRs. Well guess what… you are dead wrong. I ran bounties occasionally when I got bored with GRs. I mostly used Kadala and upgrades. But… I did occasionally run bounties for mats, and not just bounty mats. Bounties are still the best way to get mats of all kinds. If you guys are so OCD that you can run rifts/gr and nothing else I have to wonder about your mental health. I don’t know how to make it more clear. I do NOT use reforge as my main way of getting gear. I used it to try to upgrade my chest to ancient. One piece of gear. Not my whole set. And no amount of running GRs over and over again can beat 6 mins of split bounties and 4-5 chances to upgrade that one item. The random drops just can not work that way. Let’s break this down… at gr90 you get the max legendary drops. That is 8 I think. Each item has an approximately 1 in 200 chance (probably less actually) to be the item I need. And each item has a 1 in 10 chance to roll ancient. You starting to see the problem here. You are trying to convince me that those odds somehow trump the 1 in 10 chance x 4 or 5 that I have to reforge an item into ancient. Do yourself a favor and stay away from Vegas. You will be broke before you know it. Oh, and BTW I did solo several 150s on my Monk… the one I played most of the season. I only played my DH the first week and the last 2 and still ran a 135, so I don’t feel I did too bad considering I play casually.
No one is contesting that. We are saying that your character will get stronger faster from GRs for XP, rather than running bounties to upgrade your chest. If we agree on that, then we’re on same page.
Many run bounties as change of pace, that’s fine of course, even if not always 100% optimal. And if you already have awesome weapon, off-hand, gloves and jewelry, and had bounty mats left over towards end of season, then sure, may as well reroll your chest.
Not sure what’s up with the insults, but I didn’t play nearly as much as chris, I ended up at like 3.6k paragon (like you, mostly from the monk), not much above you really. I do enjoy optimising for the goals I’ve set for myself though. 
1 Like
Just because you got up to go to the bathroom every few hours doesn’t make you a casual.
This argument is inherently anti-casual. Casual players, i.e. players that can only play a few hours, are not generating the kinds of paragon that has any place in this conversation. At some point, you generate so much main stat from paragon that it overshadows the gains from items. That’s the entire crux of the argument.
Casual players are the ones that should be doing bounties to get mats for upgrading and reforging. They’re low enough to still get some XP and because their paragon will never get high enough to generate significant amounts of main stat their item gains from rerolling/reforging are relatively large.
Conversely, the player who knows they are playing towards several thousand paragon need not bother. They’ll go through so many items on the way to that paragon that odds are great they’ll get what they want with minimal deviation.
Hard disagree, see my wall of text above.
- Paragon points are more important at low level (+5 main stat is a bigger % increase at low level than at high)
- you get paragon points faster at low level
- you probably have many item slots with space for improvements, so GRs benefit as they can hit all slots, bounties only work for one
- depending on how low level, you may not have good augments on all your gear yet, which is super mega important. Well unless it’s S25 or S26 where you get free augments of course.
XP from bounties is so so tiny… Like, unless you are saying that P400 should be doing bounties for reforging (I really hope you dont), then XP is really essentially nothing.
2 Likes
Did you actually look at Chris’s Barb?
Maybe not quite that low, but yeah. We used to have this category of players called ‘casuals’ that only played maybe a few hours a week. Nobody that does multiple 150s is in that category. We’re talking people that might top out at P800 - P1000, but probably wont even reach that. At those levels, main stat isn’t really even a thing so they’re really not the subject of the sort of conversation that’s trading main stat for item quality.
Bounties do get eclipsed at some point, no question. But they give you a lot of needed stuff you don’t have at the beginning, and that GRs don’t provide much of. If you’re a player who doesn’t have time for an all GR sort of strategy which relies on efficiency over a longer period of time, doing even a few early bounties increases your GR efficiency. Bounties give you crafting mats that you can then use to reroll your failed gambles. Now your GRs give you end of run drops that turned into bloodshards that turned into rerolls. Maybe even got lucky with some goblins to get some gems to have some hope at augments, because before the past couple of seasons the time requirement for even a few augments was out of reach for those with very limited time.
I just think we sometimes overlook on boards like these that there is this rather large category of people who play these games that we forget. Some of these people don’t even try seasons because they see these strategies and think they don’t have that kind of time.
1 Like