yeah, if they bring wsg back its just fine as it was in D2.
Players that just casually want to duel in open duel games can do so and dont need to worry too much about wsg. yes they will occasionally get a heavy beat down from a good assassin that knows what she does and cant defend themselfs because they dont use wsg but most more casual players dont see that as much of a problem as can be seen in this forum.
anything on a higher level than that, so a little more dedicated pvp players in private games can still enjoy the comparably good balance of d2pvp by help of wsg and some ground rules that are usually applied to gm duels (not jugging rejuvs, not using extensive amount of absorb and such thingsâŚ)
essentially with wsg everyone will experience pvp as he allways has no matter how high the level of dedication.
without wsg, open duel games and casual pvp wont be changed too much, but more dedicated pvp is essentially dead for many classes and extremely unbalanced for the rest.
1 Like
Probably not as intended, but it is working really well overall. By tinkering with new changes to stuff that impacts PvP they take an unnecessary risk of making it worse, and for what purpose? Fixing something that in reality isnât an issue in PvP?
2 Likes
I see the logic. I totally do.
I know I just said this in another post on another chain. But Why not add a diminishing return on stuns? Seems like this will benefit not just the PvP community but perhaps those who are looking to avoid PvP.
Iâm not talking a huge rebalance. Diminishing returns on stuns is not a new idea and works very well in other games. Blanket change to all players. And Iâm not saying make this high. But perhaps just enough that no one can stun lock you for more than a few seconds?
If you fix the reason the glitch is Mandatory then fixing the glitch seems logical
Iâm not saying this is the best solution I just am wondering why it canât be A solution
because its more obvious/doesnât leave anything out of a new players view, and people want hidden bugs that offer them advantages so they can remain on top.
There are probably ways to fix/replace WSG. Itâs just that there is no point in doing so really. WSG doesnât negatively impact people, it only makes PvP better.
To answer your question regarding diminishing returns, it would heavily change some PvP matchups, as the skill that makes the stun animation for some classes come from a damaging ability, whilst from a zero or close to zero damaging ability for others. So tankier builds would be able to face tank those who have their stuns on non-damading skills and thus not pose a threat to them anymore, in opposition to what they currently do.
Ok that makes sense. Can you give me a for instance on a specific skill that might unfairly suffer?
Like obviously mind blast but diminishing an op skill doesnât seem unfair. Is there damage based skills that can approach the same level of stun lock?
Well, mind blast doesnât become as OP due to the possibility of WSG, thatâs the beauty of it.
Another one could be Leap. In rare occasions even Telekinesis.
Fireblast/firebolt as sorc has a high fcr. If they go for 200 fcr itâs even crazier.
Iâm sure there are plenty more situations, but this is just from the top of my head
Are all of these builds still effect somewhat against some one using WSG? Cuz the counter argument there would be that it prevents viability right?
Yes, because WSG can be utilized to different degrees. I probably should have mentioned that earlier. You can be horrible, decent, good and an expert at using WSG, both in terms of when to use it and how fast you are at using it. So it essentially increases the skill ceiling for PvPâers. Itâs not just something you âturn on or offâ, itâs something you can practice and progress with over time.
By for instance swapping WSG with diminishing returns the game is then âdoingâ the WSG for you and you cannot impact it to any degree, thus removing any shape of skill involved with it and lowering the ceiling for PvP compared to today
2 Likes
This is the best argument yet. I canât say I honestly think any of it will effect me one way or the other unless some sin stun locks me as I turn tail and run⌠but potentially our intelligent discussion and your willingness to consider my counter arguments might convince others (or even VV wink)
Sigh think of what we could accomplish if everyone was willing to make respectful arguments this way rather than just saying ânooo my way onlyâ!!!
2 Likes
You both disgust me, ruining the forum PvP meta.
Iâm sorry we failed you
It really boils down to âDonât try to fix what isnât brokenâ.
As things are currently in Legacy D2, every class has viable PvP builds.
Tinkering with WSG or fhr breakpoints and skill balance has a huge risk to backfire in a really bad way.
So taking the risk just for the sake of having it work without a glitch, while not actually improving anything even if it ends up working is simply not worth it at all.
3 Likes
I tried to encourage them to get some suggestions how to balance pvp better instead of glitch abuse and got back just hostility and toxicity. If you dont agree with them they will try to find any excuse possible to tell you how you dont understand the issues.
They dont care about anything else, they want just to keep abusing WSG, they dont care about proper pvp balance.
At nerfing and buffing skill and how magic properties interact in pvp.
I would argue that in some ways it is broken. Just because it was hobbling along for 20 years like that doesnât mean it wasnât broke. The problem here is people are unwilling to risk the time and possible side effects of fixing what is actually broken which is the balancing.
I concede that allowing WSG is easier and I think they should bring it back. But I also think that there is a world where a balance patch would be a positive thing. I get that this seems unlikely to folks though but perhaps itâs better done down the road a bit when vanilla d2r gets stale for a large portion of the population like I think it will
Werent intended but left in the game for over 20 years.?
Make it make sense please
2 Likes
yea
left in because they were in maintenance mode for like 15 years⌠everyone use the 20 year argument as if just cuz blizzard stopped doing any updating that means it was meant to be that way.
come on thats a terrible argument.
They should bring WSG back probably but dont tell me simply that the reason they should do so is because it was never fixed.
They never fixed alot of broken shizzz thats cuz they literally stopped fixing everything.
that doesnât mean those things couldnt benefit from fixes now.
In all honesty I dont think people would mind skill rebalancing, or even another expansion down the line. Issue is they want to know that devs are up to the task. For now I think most of the âpuristsâ (that includes me) want somewhat seamless transition from old D2 to D2RE. Once VV proves that they can achieve that, they will gain enough players thrust to make them more open minded about changes. Balancing skills is about the hardest part to do. Game have many group of players and changing skills for one of them will also affect another to different degree. So yes it is better to bring back WSG than starting to mess up with balancing skills on the very beginning. Look at it that way - if you restoring classic car you dont start by installing nitro in it.
They literally removed it and added it back in due to backlash.
So it was a bug that BECAME a feature.