Now that very much depends on how it’s done. D3 before revamp where you would quite literally bash your head against the wall that was Inferno for months unless you traded doesn’t really help matters in the slightest.
Also, paragon 23 doesn’t really strike me as that.
why would i grind in a game like diablo 3?
i play games i like xD
Ok, so why spend all that time on a forum for a game you don’t like?
they are indeed complaining about drop rates because i have experienced that
i wouldnt pull this example out of my butt
they also complain about enemies being too hard, things being too expensive, skilltrees being to complicated and basically anything that makes a game more interesting for a person actually wanting to invest into the game xDD
Devs should ignore those people. Some also keep saying they want an easy mode in Souls games. So far the devs seems to be like 
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Trading is the only thing that keeps the PvPer in the game. Yes, it shortens the loothunt so does the jackpot machines that you dump one resource in the middle of the town squares. PvP needs to min max their stats and they wouldn’t stay in the game for long if their build lacks 1% stat or they can not rip through the breakpoint.
You may hate PvP, but trading is the only way to keep their attention and making this relevant. PvP system won’t have rewarding points like PvE and trying to build up “the right” build would take abit longer than the non-optimized PvE builds.
Unless we’re talking about a very unique system where you can loot fallen players, which is horrible, things won’t go your way in a completely randomized loot machine. PvP requires very precise pieces for it to be fair or don’t get overwhelmed against the odds you can face. Getting pitted against human control warriors are much different from slaughtering monsters controlled by artificial intelligence with some dirty tricks up their sleeve.
Trading player characters and non-trading player characters can easily be separated at the leaderboards if that really bothers you that someone traded their way through getting a placement. As a developer it’s easier to disable and deny any trading characters’ attempt to get into leaderboards instead of blocking off trading.
Similarly even if shortens the loothunt, trading will always welcome any player after a long break. That sustain will keep old players returning to the game for the foreseeable future.
Any model that would block off trading and doesn’t become a grindy treadmill is simply utopic and unrealistic. It has been tried many times and game ended up becoming dull with human interaction minimized with little to none replay value. That’s what developers want to maximize for their MAU interaction.
Even Diablo Immortal, a phone game with billions of target audience at the far east, has a trading system going and you’re asking if the new PC installment should block trading completely. This doesn’t really look complicated on surface but things become more complex you try to insist your views. Let developers decide the best outcome. They will want the prolonged interaction from the player and I doubt they’d want to repeat Diablo 3.
Which should also very much not exist.
Kadela is horrible. Cube is horrible.
They pretty much are similar to trading. Not as powerful and easy of course, but similar concepts.
If PvP is going to hurt the main game, then dont have PvP.
Or, let people create characters specifically for some kind of arena PvP where you can pick and choose perfect items etc. That would be the esport solution. No grind needed for the pure PvPers.
Trading is not needed for “fair PvP”.
Trading does not offer any substantial human interaction. It can be nearly automated, and is nearly automated, in the games that offer trading.
People seeking human interaction in Diablo should… wait for it… play together.
Not allowing trading, and only item sharing between people who were at the kill, encourages way way more human interaction than trading could ever hope for.
Leaderboards are completely irrelevant. And imo should not exist either. But even if they do, they have nothing to do with why trading is bad. Leaderboards do not affect gameplay in any direct way.
It doesn’t hurt anything. Just PvP feeds from trading and trading feeds from PvP. They are beneficial for each other. However, if you cut off trading, players that like PvP will be inclined to PvE and loot more often, and this can be weary at the long run. It is not entirely a bad thing if you think PvP is incorporated to the main game through challenges but still a dilemma.
True, but needed for a fast going 5 minute fun being irrelevant to the whole circulation of gameflow or isolated from it. If I like PvP and can not get my PvP build going in a short time, then two options here; I quit the game abit early to return to it or after a while I give up and try my best at PvE. Trading may look scary, but shortening the path helps the distinctive nature to apply.
Just because it can be automated you shouldn’t set aside small deals you can do with friends. You can not always play together for timeline differences with the other end of the world but you can come together, do some trading and go on your own way until next time.
Then what exactly are you playing a very low interaction genre for? Leaderboards are one of the staples as game revolves around PvE, maybe the most important ahead of PvP. Trading is just an alternate endgame where you can exchange and interact to get what you want.
People do that for a small challenge. What is even an ARPG without challenging anything beyond clicking at a screen and watching numbers grow? If I wanted something like that, I could always play Clicker Heroes instead of an ARPG or any other MMO.
well tbh i couldn’t care less about leaderboards
like, this isn’t a job, this isn’t a competition, i wanna have fun and not stress myself out xD
however i definitely support everyones desire to appear somewhere up there in the list
but if this list is an argument for people to remove gameplay features because it makes the competition “unfair” then i have to say the list goes second, the game goes first
i am just playing to have fun
it’s fun to create different characters with interesting skill trees, finding items and combining all of that to increase your effectiveness as a killer and see it all play out in an immersive, action packe and visually beautiful way
games like that are an art and take years of worktime of hundreds of people and i don’t think you should reduce that to player tier lists or compare it to mobile clicker games
Still avoids the main component of the game IMO. I mean if they are playing in a group with you sure.
Nope. Then you have people trading items of not even close to equal value to subvert the system.
Maximizing what you invest into, isn’t that the point of a trade ?
If I got 4 Primarily poison-damage pieces in my gear and say my Helm is a legendary that has lots of good stuff but it’s primary “theme” is fire, then I’d probably want to trade it for another “primarily poison theme” piece ? 
I mean there’s a whole “backstory” of WHY you’d like to trade a something for other something, and not always going for a “BiS” should be the only way… ?
I mean who cares, if a Rare of some drop has say like +30% Damage over time and say another affix of + 2 maximum stacks of poison damage, then I’d want to trade for it ?
Don’t see the issue there tbh, just make the game where the “special item” “power creep” isn’t so obvious/big… 
, there are plenty of games already where Legendaries are pretty damn good but not always mandatory thing, don’t see the problem of this
After all that’s what defined a good itemisation system, doesn’t it ?
As for the other part (both sides need to participate with a token) absolutely, that’s the whole point of it, make players “strategize” their “timings” (trade too early and a better piece may appear later, trade too late and perhaps all the best deals were already made, I mean that’s a part of the whole experience in general isn’t it ? 
)
Over time, I feel like the only real viable trade situation is the one where you want to help a friend. And I don’t mean some random dude you have on your FL that you talk to maybe once a month, if that. Trade doesn’t keep PvPers. Good PvP keeps PvPers. Diablo never had good standalone PvP, requiring player arbitrated guidelines to make it work somewhere close to fairly. Hell, most online games don’t have good PvP when you analyze finer details.
That said, let’s take a page from D3 and tweak it a little.
As you play with people on your friend’s list who have been on it for at least a week, a special coin will start dropping. This coin will only drop if you’re actually playing within range of each of other (1-2 screens) and goes into a virtual inventory represented on your FL next to their name (Timer instead if not droppable). All other items will then have a friend coin cost, with the weaker/lower level or rarity it is, the cheaper it is. In order to give a desired item to your friend, you must sacrifice your friend coins. The item itself doesn’t have to drop while playing with them, but D3’s 2 hour window can also exist here to save on coins and further encourage playing together.
Pragmatically, this prevents a veteran dumping an arsenal of items on a completely new player and ruining the intended experience. Rate of coin acquisition can be tweaked relative to how comfortable the devs feel an item can move between friends. A reasonable coin cap could also be included so it’s generally only 1 or 2 really good items per stock. With game/party size being limited, shared coin generation is also limited. The proximity requirement is to also emphasize playing with people and not merely being in the same party/game. This adds a slight layer of complexity to those who intend to RMT, as bots mustn’t do their own thing in the same party/game, which partially minimizes their overall loot saturation. The prohibitive coin cost of more valuable goods also makes it so you can’t just swipe your credit card and get something instantly. You’d first have to befriend their mule a week and possibly play together for a month+ just to afford it. No sane player would want to hand over the keys to their account for that long, either. Subsequently, it does add a layer of trackability for Blizzard when people randomly friend up and rush to trade something expensive, possibly defriending after.
Obviously, I’d rather RMT or P2W not be a possibility at all, but actually playing with friends should still have its perks.
Well I’d rather have open trade for anything that dropped while being in a party than no trade at all but that’s also not what people want ultimately
Trading is pretty much confirmed, so at this point you might aswell look towards other ARPGS if it’s that annoying. However, I’d say offering an alternative mode, like NO TRADE MODE, is a decent compromise. Let people choose like they do in POE.
I guess that’s fair if it doesn’t split the community and is just disabling your character from trading
But people will be like “they have an advantage over me now”
It’s not easy to please everyone
And if it does split the community, so what? Some people want to trade while others don’t. Making them play in the same server will make zero sense when there will likely be a ladder and competition involved. I suspect the playerbase of D4 to be big enough for it to not really be a problem.
Okay. But if we put it this way, I’d say, that this majority doesn’t even need THAT. 99% of those who bought and played Diablo III (all those 15-20+ millions) played Normal Difficulty once, maybe Nightmare too, watched all cinematics, maybe tried a couple of more classes, and then uninstalled the game for good. They never even get to this “orange rain” and so don’t care about that at all.
If D4 try to earn smth by MTX they’ll need to think a lot about hardcore players, those who ll play a lot. POE works this way, hardcore players - not causals - spend thousands of bucks on MTX.
because everything in PoE looks like butt without cosmetics :v
i dont know if D4 will achieve an MTX scenario like league of legends