So we disagree. You like playing with bad builds for the majority of the game, while I like playing with a real build for the majority of the game.
Personally, if by “loot hunt” you mean, it’ll take 10 years to find one item in my build. Then you can keep it.
I am fine with that too, but they need to create a loot hunt where the gear isn’t stupid easy to get. The D2 trading extreme is not the answer, but neither is the D3 loot raining from the sky extreme.
They need to find some middle ground where you have to grind a bit to get your gear, but not be completely gimped until you do.
The loot rains from the sky now because the game was built with trading in mind.
Look, I’m cool with a loot hunt but I’m not cool with it taking years to complete a build.
My dream is that right around 200 to 500 hours of game time can get you the real build. Anything longer than that, and it just isn’t worth playing in my estimation.
Guess you have reading comprehension issues. Still trying to find where I said it will take 10 years to get a piece of gear. Pretty sure I said things like:
If playing for a couple of weeks or a month to get your gear is the majority of the game for you, well, maybe RPG’s aren’t right for you. I want a game I can sink my time in, not hit the win button, play a week, get bored, move on.
And I’ve been illustrating that I won’t play a game like D2 again.
Do I like how D3 is set up with loot raining? No, I’d prefer a longer hunt. But do I like that I can put a build together (in D3 a build isn’t a build until it’s all ancient with the right stats) in about 200 to 500 hrs? Yes. I like that very much.
How is that different than anything I said? I think 200 to 500 hours is far too much actually, because I like to play alts. If you can get your BIS pieces in a month, say 3-4 hours a day (90-120 hours), I find that very fair.
Again my problem with D3 where you find the BIS pieces in 6 hours of play time, then it becomes finding slightly better pieces of the same thing.
There’s a lot of things wrong with D3. I can admit that. But one thing I appreciate is while I’m going about getting the build to the right place, I can actually play the build to do it.
What I wouldn’t like is playing something I don’t like just to get the real thing I want to play.
I go into a game with fun in mind and if I don’t find a build fun, I don’t want to feel forced to play it because eventually I get to play what I really want to play. That’s just dumb game design in my opinion.
and this is where we differ. I want to look at several pieces of gear not just the same 13 every time my bag fills up. I would much rather have legendaries with much tighter item rolls and make them somewhat rarer (and no, I am not saying 1 in a trillion rarer, so relax), and have other pieces of gear partially fill in the gaps as you build towards those pieces.
I played a lot of sorc in D2. Death’s fathom was BIS, but until you got one, a Wizspike came in very handy. I want to find different pieces of gear to build up to the Fathom. I don’t want to find a Fathom in my first 4 hours with rolls of x to 100x on every stat, then I just keep finding dozens of Fathoms hoping that the new one is x + 1 more than the one I have. That is an incredibly boring loot hunt for me.
Now before you get your panties in a bunch saying “It took 25 years to find one Death’s Fathom!!!”. That is not what I am asking for. I am just using it as an example of how I want the loot hunt to progress, not how long. What I want is to maybe hit the lottery occasionally and get one in the first hour, or else maybe have to grind a bit for a few days, or a week or two until I get on, but until then, find other pieces of gear to fill in the gap.
As for RNGesus jamming you and never getting one, that is why I want to be able to build up mats and purchase a randomly rolled one. This solves the problem without having to have trading in the game.
See, that’s the thing. You played sorc. The sorc comes with all the abilities folks might look for in a build. Need Enigma? Play sorc. Have trouble with immunes? Equip your merc with a high damage weapon and play sorc. Need to magic find? Play sorc. And all the while you’re playing the build you want to play.
None of the other classes are like that in D2. It’s no wonder you look back on it fondly.
Now if in D4, I can play a Rogue and play with all the skills I want to play with from beginning to end like the sorc in D2, then yeah, that’d be great!
But playing with skills I don’t want to play with just so I might be able to play with the ones I do, is a straight no from me.
This is one of the fundamental things wrong with D3. The gear defines the build, not enhances it. If you do not have the right gear, the build is unplayable. You are forced to play another build until you get the right gear. D2 was far different. I could play a lightning sorc, a fireball sorc, a blizz sorc without the right gear because the skills defined the build not the gear. The gear simply enhanced it.
This is something they need to seriously look at when designing D4. I want options. I want a flow to the game.
Really? No one ever ran a pally day one in D2, or a necro, or a barb? Trust me, although sorc was my favorite class to play, I did start seasons with other classes such as necro and druid. I had no problem farming with them. Does the sorc have an early advantage with tele, yes, but it also had a huge disadvantage with durability. I usually gravitate towards a more kiting, glass cannon builds. Tanking in a pile of monsters hitting buttons isn’t the style I like.
As for D4, I strongly doubt there will only be one viable farming build. Every class should have them, some will be better, some won’t. It is up to them to make sure the game has some reasonable balance.
You have the same problem with D3. I love UE dh. I love Htooth Wd. When I want to push the leader boards, the first thing I do is not play either of those builds for the vast majority of the season. I play a crappy zdps or a build I do not enjoy like GoD. If I play the build I actually want, I am relegated to SSF mode.
There’s literally a same named thread with one “not” in the title sentence and instead of just replying there you decided to make a new one…
In general, don’t like it when people “open up” in an ultimatum (even in mild form), and when you have the two types that one says “I won’t buy if X” and the others say “I won’t buy if not X” kinda makes you think if a thread is but a kneejerk reaction to the other
Either way, expressed my points there in a rather broad/detailed range with greater insight to what does/doesn’t/should/shouldn’t work… Take a look, if interested 
Well, it’s only a problem if you’re not into SSF. I am head over heels for SSF. I play the build I want to play. My clan is always trying to get me to multi-player with them, in which case, yeah, I’d be relegated to zdps. Which I’m very inexperienced with.
For me, I loved UE. Played it a lot and I was really good at it, despite it a weak a set. But when we got a strong set, I switched to GoD and am having a blast and have gotten pretty good at it too.
Now, if they buff UE, I’d probably go back to it. I really did like the build but for the longest time I was playing a weak set second only to M6 as the worst set our class had but it was fun and so I played it. I find GoD outrageously fun though and just like I did with UE. I play by myself.
Point being, as I’ve said in another thread, as long as I can SSF in D4 and not lose anything, then I’m cool with it. I don’t mind playing a weaker build if it’s fun and I can play it from beginning to end. What I won’t like is playing something weak because the common runewords are weak and likely I won’t ever find the high end runes to make the better ones.
People are complaining that they can’t scam noobs? This sounds like comedy xD
Apart from that
Can’t other people trade and you just don’t?
Why do you tell other people how they should have fun?
That depends. In D2 for example you can play for tens of thousands of hours and never get the item you want, or spend a few mins trading. You really consider option one there viable in comparison?
No one here does, not wanting to be forced to do something boring in a game is not telling anyone how to have fun.
The argument that not participating in trade (or even begging for free stuff) with its presence is a “valid choice” fails when you take the time to consider the detriments of not doing so. The end result is typically that those who do not gear up more slowly, can’t challenge the same content as quickly, or even hope to compete with those who do in either PvP or some form of ranking. All of this before considering the outside influence of RL money, bots, hacks/exploits, and account thefts. Drop rates otherwise being balanced around its presence is also a valid concern. Slap the time constraints of seasons on top and the pressure to partake is further magnified.
Shuffling people off to SSF isn’t the answer, as you’re basically forcing another sacrifice by saying they can’t play with others when they want. Making it so you can reasonably get drops while playing has always been the best solution. None of this “It takes hundreds of hours to finish a character!” either. Maybe 10 hours per piece of gear tops as long as you can target a slot in some way.
I personally would demand my money back if I was done with my character in 2 minutes
I don’t get why being done as fast as possible is anything people are looking for in a grinding game
Nope.
Because the mere existence of the stupid economy ruins the entire game for everyone who doesn’t want to participate.
Waiting in queues for bots, getting spam messages, all the scamming/cheating/duping and all other shady stuff that goes with it and then severely limiting what players can accomplish because of the existence of the economy means you can’t “just don’t”
Then you shouldn’t want trading.
I simply don’t care
It doesn’t affect me when people are geared up faster than me but I support people wanting to trade
I rarely do it in mmorpgs and I like to have the opportunity to be able to do something with a god roll item that I don’t want to use
So you actually prefer to grind for 5 years for one item? I don’t like it to be instant either, but instant beats never any day of the week.