The thread is about D4 and you were the one mentioning D2. So I used the word uniques to state a simple fact. If the drop rates are not balanced around trading then your highest priced items will be vendor bait. I have seen it happen in other games with a good economy. Where the only items that would remain high priced would be ones that you would see once in a blue moon.
As long as D4 doesn’t following the route that this game did with itemization. Where the gear in D4 only enhances the build instead of making the build then we will be just fine. An itemization system that will have good alternatives to BiS gear. Alternatives that are not in the 10k%+ range in gap of power. Alternatives that are easier to find or craft.
Add in a better and deeper character progression system that is easy to learn but difficult to master that will be what makes the build. Yes this means some sort of point spending system (Think Last Epoch or Wolcen here).
Along with no infinite progression. Doing all of this will mean that the game will be able to support trading. Any repeats of D3 then no trading shouldn’t be added.
When you have trade you will have items that will have some in game value. It could even go for other items like items being priced for SoJs in D2. You cannot separate the two where it has no in game value.
The way things were in D2, as far as I can recall, there wasn’t enough value in the in-game gold to trade for lucrative items at all. I did–however–enjoy being able to give items to my friends. Not having a trading system isn’t a deal breaker for me, though. It would be nice, but other things are far more important.
Gold not being considered useful is just a matter of making enough gold sinks. Most methods of upgrading your character, gems, runes skills and whatever, should require gold. At the top tiers huge amounts of gold. If there is an auction house, there should be a 10-20% gold fee. Having a gambling system like D2 had will not only please players, but add additional use for gold.
Then just have gold drops tuned so that people will always be glad to get gold. It even adds a new dimension to playing, where you’re happy to get a lot of gold from a play session, even if you didn’t find a top item for your build.
Wouldn’t that just punish the legit players though or end up watering down the game?
Lets take an example from d2 sod runes.
-if blizzard responds to the duping of them by making the drop rate rarer so that they’re harder to get legit players get hurt.
-if blizzard instead ups the drop rate to make zod runes common so it’s no longer worth the time or effort to sell them then the game gets watered down (especially if this is done for every high demand hard to find item)
Honestly I think I’d be happier without trading and a well balanced loot system, unless trading has severe restrictions on it
Casual play and minimal trading nets me 20+ ex per season. These drop rates would be fine as they allow completion of the endgame in a fairly short season. You do need to progress your gems, multi mod some gear, make a few trades, and abstain from mindless face tank strategy to beat the endgame bosses…
Players most likely can buy currency and/or items but there are consequences being applied and I can’t notice a reduction in my purchasing power, so if this type of cheating exists, it’s prevalence relative to the bulk of the economy is most likely trivial.
And every once and a while an item like a headhunter drops(last season for me) and gives you a feeling you’ll never receive from anything that includes design remotely resembling D3.
That doesn’t make much sense because most of the ability to take advantage of the trade market lies in either being incredibly lucky or just playing the hell of out of the game to eventually overcome its RNG.
But if I’m going to be incredibly lucky, I’d rather get something for ME than something I can trade, and if I’m going to be playing the hell of the game anyway I’d rather there be extensive systems, quests and events to hold my interest rather than just running the most efficient boss/dungeon until RNG rolls my way.
And as an aside… often the people “most capable” are… not especially nice people. They’re the ones willing to gouge, overprice, take advantage of others and corner the market. That’s one of the big problems with an open trade system. It encourages and often rewards jerk behavior.
What makes you think the trade system in D2 DIDN’T affect drop rates?
Because I don’t like needing to watch trade chat, spam for items, spam my items, and/or otherwise spend time outside of actually playing the game?
And of course you use it when it’s available - because you’d be a moron not to. I mean, if I play Class X and get Awesome McCool Item for Class Y, OF COURSE I’m going to try to trade it for an Awesome McCool item for Class X. But it doesn’t mean I like doing it.
We’re arguing over a turn of phrase. Was I wrong to use absolutist language when describing trade in D2? Yeah, fine. Am I wrong to say that trading SEEMED necessary, or that it made things a hell of a lot easier? No.
What’s the definition of “casual play” and “minimal trading”?
The thread is about D4 trading, something D3 doesn’t have and something that flourishes in and outside of D2. D2 has a small legal economy within the ladder game and a massive illegal economy outside the game. The word “price” is indicative to the illegal economy outside of the game. The word “vendor” as far as D2 goes is related to NPC’s in the game and no one outside of the game. I only point this out because your choice of words make things confusing as it pertains to this franchise.
People sell D2 items, services, accounts and characters for real money on platforms like facebook, Discord and personal websites, as well, there is an economy on d2jsp that uses a currency that is rooted in real money. They call this trading on jsp but no actual items are traded for other items.
Moving forward, Blizzard needs to prevent this type of behaviour in any new game in the franchise. Removing trading such as what was done with D3, I do not think it’s the answer to this very real problem.
I agree.
Establishing the value is important and can be done via a treasure classification like D2 has though is used in trading, but more importantly, preventing the exploitation of items via real money/out of game sales, item farming with bots and duping is essential.
It doesn’t, the last increase in drops was with runes back when they change the rune colour. This wasn’t done in relation to the in game trade system, but was done in attempt to affect the illegal duping and sales of Blizzard’s ip, which is a black market economy outside of the game.
The ability lies in dedication, commitment, and a willingness to utilize all the tools available.
If you always get something for you, the game may be forced into being designed a quite trivial experience for others depending on who you are. If excessive RNG is your fear, so too should D3 design philosophy.
Such actions in real economies are criminal and they should be treated similarly in gaming. The proper solution to a bad actor is not to dismantle the system to which they are a part of, but rather adequate discipline to discourage such actions.
If a piece of gear is worth 15 SoJs in D2 then players wouldn’t see that as an in game price? I am not talking real money here. In game items in a trading game will always carry an in game price based on whatever is used in currency. In PoE you have exalted orbs as the high priced items.
Sure they can make some tweaks to the drop rates. But they won’t be sky high changes where it is raining high tiered runes because trade exists. If you have it where every rune is common and drops like candy then the Zod runes would lose their value really fast.
And some of those tools could include bots or being a no lifer.
The soj duping days are over, and the 15 soj trading IS THE HACKING/PVP COMMUNITY’S GAME, not the legit ladder community’s game. Your understanding of the D2 community is very dated and limited, let me know when you’ve caught up to know how the actual game works.
I just don’t get this nonsense, no one is saying or implying this.
Take care.
im against trading almost in any shape or form, unless the item dropped to you while you were in party and you need to give it to your friend that was near when it dropped
trading = RMT = pay2win
i really really hope that devs learnt well and will not be intimidated by narrow-minded players like OP that cant count the consequences of certain decisions.
Oh he knows exactly what those decisions would result in, and it’s exactly what he wants. He wants to be able to sell items again just like in pre-RoS D3.
He’s made 7 trading-focused threads within the last week.
Of course they do and I already mentioned there is an in game trade system trading items for items, it’s the very foundation of my position on the subject. However, there is no raining of elite uniques and high runes. I can trade a Vex for Dracs, a Wizzy for an IK Maul, HoZ for Arreats, a 15/15 Kraken for a Ber.
Nope you can only talk for yourself. I’m a legitimate person and I loved trading in D2. I personally think they made D3 in a game for sheltered ******* disguised with some blood and gore. They basically killed 90% of social interactions from the game and made sure you would feel safe at all times by removing pvp from the world. Made me puke. Trading was a big part of the hidden dangers and was fun. It wasn’t mandatory either. You could still play D2 till the end without trading. You traded because you wanted to be stronger than your peers and you wanted to be able to defend yourself against real threats (other players). This was loads of fun and also full of life lessons. D2 was a harsh game but that’s what made it an awesome game. So I’m all for trading coming back. I also want pvp in regular world. In fact they should just bring back the whole D2 multiplayer system lol.
Some D3 players are so far gone now that they think anyone who wants trading has to be an rmt seller ‘because why else would anyone want it’? idiots.
Basically every mmo game ever made has trading, and an ecomomy. And yes many have 3rd party trades taking place to some degree. But that’s a necessary evil. Because these games would suck if the developers just cut the economy and trading out of the game. D3 is in the same boat. Most people think D3 sucks.
Don’t even talk to me about box sales. Most of those were back when D3 did have trading. There’s also the fact that people thought D3 would be another D2 like hit.