There has a to be a combo to run Hydra set or LOD with out channeling. So sick of that play style. Maybe Echo Fury + some other weapons? I want to love Hydra’s so bad.
You can, but it’s tuned around channeling. The damage is tuned assuming you have the 10x damage bonus from Deathwish and Etched Sigil. There’s not really any way to make up that damage gap, those are two of our strongest damage multipliers.
You can play it without it, but it won’t be as strong. Should be fine for T16, lower and mid level GRs. You’ll lose about 10-15 GRs worth of damage, depending on what you are substituting in those slots.
EDIT: Looks like Cratic was testing some T16 channel-less hydra builds on PTR:
Makes sense for T16 to ditch channeling actually, the 1 sec delay on the Deathwish and Etched Sigil buffs isn’t really conducive to 1.5-3 min rifts. Would slow you down too much. Makes more sense to work in channeling when you are targetting the 3-5 min range for higher GR speeds.
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For T16 and GR80-85 (higher if you are 1.5k+ para or fully aug) you will melt stuff with no channel (not even on RG).
Just have 100 lvl trapped & enforcer, 3rd gem can be anything you fancy, make sure you have a good APS breakpoint for hydras (can go either frost or arcane for this content depending what %elemental you have on amulet / bracer).
Can run nemesis bracer in cube for even faster speeds. Very tough with 2 hydras up (should have ~100m+ toughness not doing a thing), very chill to play as well.
Highly recommend Astral presence and familiar (along with storm armor AP regen) for high income of arcane power due to constant teleports and summoning hydras (arcane on crit does not work with pet attacks only your attacks, same as with pain enhancer not proccing from hydras).
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Thank you Anelyn and TinneOnnMuin, you are the reason I keep playing Diablo since 1998, just great forums.
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Just keep in mind that past 110, hydra really starts lacking in damage (both for wave clear and RGK) thanks to our mere 13.000 multiplier compared to 20k for other relevant classes (and LoD hydra ain’t much better or worse either).
As long as you’re happy playing a chill & safe build (once all vital items are acquired) and speeding 100-105’s (gear & paragon dependant obv) then go for it! I did GR 110 at 725 paragon no augs with 2:37 left or smth like that with TV set.
Now at 1050P with several augs and 115 is a lottery. I need a good map with good pylons to have time for RG 
If I run stricken, I can murder RG in 30-40s, but my map clear will take a considerable hit (and if it’s not a great map or has no useful pylons, no good).
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Could have been a thing with 450% SS/Magi…juuuuust saying. But yah with current 300/300 it’s not really that viable past like GR100. I don’t see 100-105 being very good without channeling, even with theme.
The funny thing is WD already had RoEmptiness at 300% which got buffed by requiring only 1 skill. Barber is 500% no? And 150% on mojo. Now put 6pc at 13000%. Who would still play WD this season? Nobody.
Make Mask of Jeram universal legendary, so that mages and necro can use it too, we have pets as well.
Right, something. At that point it should have been basic math. 6000% for Manitou rune over 20 seconds? Oh guess what that equals? 300% per second. Guess what that’s awfully close to? Oh right any decent hydra rune! So why such blatant discrepancy in power then huh?
265% x 4 (SS) x 4 (magi) x 4.25 (DW) x 2.5 (Etched Sigil) x 131 (set) x 1.66 (extra head) = 9.7M weapon damage a second discounting skills and other additive buffs
300% x 4 (RoE) x 6 (Barber) x 3 (Mask of Jeram) x 201 (set) x 1.44 (extra mana) = 6.2M weapon damage a second??
Wait…we’re missing something here, is it just the accumulative damage nuke that’s making this so superior? The Bazooka effect vs hydra constant dps? Because our damage mods aren’t that inferior here… well wait it can also fit in CC and EW but that shouldn’t matter too much since we can fit in CoE or EF with season buff at least.
Wth, is it what we suspected all along that stupid 4pc mechanic really holding it all back? The constant resummoning of hydras when heads die? Or just a combination of everything…gotta manage that, gotta channel…1 second delay…yadda yadda, work , usual jump through a thousand hoops to do damage?
Oops I forgot Gazing Demise, gains the Phantasm rune as well, which adds 150% to initial base damage plus it’s 2.5x mod. GG.
450% x 4 (RoE) x 6 (Barber) x 3 (Mask of Jeram) 2.5x (Gazing Demise) x 201 (set) x 1.44 (extra mana) = 23.2M weapon damage a second
Alright I was gonna say lol… they nuke everything wasn’t computing.
Yah honestly it’s that Mask of Jeram that’s putting them over, give that to us too and we’d be gtg. I’m wondering if the dev(s) didn’t consider they could use Mask, wouldn’t be surprised.
It’s not only that, is also the fact that they get much more out of CoE cold than we get out of it (irrelevant if it’s mammoth or frost hydra). They can time it to detonate 3 pets on cold after accumulation which clears everything on 132 trash and almost kills non-jugg champions / elites - that’s in one rotation.
I highly doubt any setup for wiz would even get more than 25% hp on 132 during a CoE. The difference is just huge.
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Hello Anelyn, you seem to be pretty knowledgeable on the mechanics of the game. I was wondering if you could shed some insight on a question I have?
I realize that Tyhpon’s right now pretty much recommends the frost hydra, but I love the Blazing Hydra much more. I am unable to find information on how many times it stacks. I’ve read it does not apply infinitely.
The Blazing Hydra (RIP Venom Hydra) deals 155% over 3 seconds. Which means it is 51.67% per second, per head or per hydra? What does it stack to? Is it 3 seconds worth so it deals 155% per second, per head or per hydra?
I hope you can shed some insight! Thank you.
Bonus question, does Bane of the Stricken only apply to the first target hit, even if it hits multiple targets? Like a blazing hydra bolt or frost hydra aoe? Thank you.
Sorry I have no information about this hydra, but perhaps someone else more knowledgeable may share some insight ^^
Arcane and Frost are most used runes (for set).
Stricken vs multiple enemies is irrelevant, as each hydra with 5 heads can attack different targets. It’s only used vs Rift Guardians pretty much (and that from 115+ you should be fine getting there w/o any stricken with decent setup).
Funny thing is, meanwhile I started HC season. Wiz cause I knew she would be safe at 70 with LoD gem up to T9. Got the set, lucky with drops (core items) and at 430 para did GR90.
Was tough! 1.5m sheet dps, reached next APS on frost hydra, travelers, karini was only 67% (couldn’t cube it and wear RoRG cause was crap, and I had to cube sparker and magister).
But she was a happy farmer in T16 / bounties, got me going. Then I made a WD. And this is the funny part. Geared her with mundunugu, no ancients except weapon (sacred harvester) and at 600 para she cleared GR100 super safe with only 500k sheet dps (didn’t even had socket in weapon - no consumable drop) with 6m left.
Toughness you say? That wiz has the highest DR? Am at 94.79% DR sitting still and 97.79% DR when moving with travelers. 52% RCR and 49.9% CDR + Crimson, not running horrify FA just the base BBV (and horrify FA is more DR than BBV but I don’t need it anymore). And dmg? Stuff just implodes.
Using gizzard gem for T16/speeds and mobs can’t even break the 200k shield lol.
Nice not a bad idea, I mean of all the sets the hydra one is definitely the most tanky with that generous 80% DR, mine as well take advantage of that in hardcore lol. Then of course you got LoD which is even more tanky once you gear it all.
Yah not too surprised at WD, I really do think they forgot that Mask of Jeram works with it…somehow (did they just not see PTR?) If that’s the case its suppose to be 3x weaker which sounds too weak, were all these sets really designed not to come in with a big splash like monk/crus but a whimper this time?
Hopefully we’ll get some insight of balance someday, meanwhile we definitely can take advantage of it’s toughness.
Yeah. WD can pop elite packs / champs in 1 rotation (CoE) in density, but very bad dps vs RG or isolated elites / champs.
So very group friendly (obv not on level of poison nova Necro at high GR, but up to 140 will do just fine). Wiz is so far behind… At least make it a RGK with TV set with arcane hydras.
Monk very strong for solo push with TR (insane toughness and great dmg with buildup), Sadder AoV is best RGK period, Necro’s have the time of their life in S20 - Rats + wave clear in high GR, Wiz can do speeds up to 110 (LoD or TV) but hard time in solo and no place in groups, WD solo push is ok, but much better in speeds and 120-140 grps great wave clear, Barb is 2nd RGK with Frenzy, can do speeds with WW, and DH with MS just like previous couple seasons ^^
But wizard - NOW - needs help, hope it gets something at least by late mid-season, otherwise will be too little too late, as peeps will already fully gear / aug their other toons that actually have a role and are fun to play this season.
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what are those hydra aps breakpoints you´re talking about?
Go to d3planner, import your wizard, go to skills tab, and hover your mouse over hydra DPS and it will tell you at what APS you are, how much more IAS you need to reach the next breakpoint and how much dps increase that will net you etc.
I can confirm, with my current gear - while not the best, can’t seem to push past 110 with Tyhon’s. I am trying to get gear for a Legacy of Nightmare build going on, without using a maxed gem.
Hydras need some generous love. I would especially like to see Blazing Hydra be best for single target, but the ramp up is so horrendously slow 155% over 3 seconds is not good, while the frost hydra is an instant 255%.
Hydras need a bump in their legendary boost, or tie it to Typhon’s so it can’t be used with Legacy builds. Either way, Hydras need love.
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Replace Blazing Hydra (2nd fire variant) with Brutal Hydra. Make it do physical damage and cause bleeding.
I’d rather they bring Poison Hydra back. But won’t happen either, as Wizards can only have Arcane, Cold, Fire or Lightning skills. Poison, Holy and Physical damage is a no-go. If they do anything like that, it would affect CoE and its elemental rotation, adding another phase would harm a lot of builds.