We need more buffs to be included in META groups or some other classes need nerfs.
My crew is right there with you. We avoid all meta builds as we feel it takes away from the game. We will even make up our own rules for the season to add some real challenge. Like only allowed to play with your kid in your lap or some crazy thing like that.
1 Like
If you have trouble finding a group with a ZDH you might be doing something wrong…
Now its time for me to start with an unrealistic wishlist:
I hereby demand Blizzards Santa-Clause to send me the following ingame-buffs as presents:
Make Hydra-Sorcs have a place in the Meta
Make Hammerdin-Paladins available and give them a place in the Meta, same goes for Blizzard and Frozen-Orb sorc.
Give Frenzy-Barb a fixed place in the Meta as BK
Give WW-Barb a place in the Meta as TK
Give WD a Place as Supp-Char in the Meta
Give every build from every class a place in the Meta. Oh thats contradicting? Nevermind, i want it to happen! Listen to me Blizz or you are very bad people. In addition to that, everybody that disagrees is a moron
No one is finding META group with zDH in non season. If you have a video to prove me wrong come and share it.
One of the things I did on DH in the past is getting #1 World rank for DH on 4 man leadearboard. It was the best you could do with DH and way behind META groups. That was few years ago (Twister meta) and I used zDH for that. I played zDH before most people did. So I think I know what I am talking about.
The reason zdh is not meta is that dh can’t keep a squirts up for the dps (= can’t replace monks) and suck at pulling (= can’t replace barbs).
The day when a meta doesn’t need one of those, zdh will be a great choice. See dh god speeds.
Also the reason nobody wants an impale dh boss killer is that it’s boring as hell to play with one. I’d rather not do 150s than suffer an impale dh boss kill.
1 Like
Exactly and I already explained it to him on other topic but he still pretends he does not understand.
Yes it is boring. But it is better to play something then nothing. I ask for META spot with any DH build it does not have to be Impale. Blizzard go surprise us.
A reminder:
After that they buffed zBarb with Savages set and created current zDH build.
I don’t see what you’re trying to remind us here. The savages set definitely isn’t a specifically made for support set, and the buff to DH was quite in line with every other DH buffs, oriented towards a generator skill when they created a set specifically for gen DH.
What I read here is that they don’t/won’t go out of their way to make support build good/better/whatever, but if them buffing a build has the side effect of changing the support meta, they don’t care.
1 Like
While they have said that, they have nerfed support builds in the past, specifically health globe generation.
And now it seems they have given up.
1 Like
I want to remind you that we knew that zBarb and ZMonk will stay in META for ever if Blizzard does not change how they work. For them it is afterthought and they don’t aim to do anything directly about zdps builds.
Yeah, cause everything resolves arround META Groups ONLY right? 
Let’s just scr3w SOLO players like me, cause some people are bitter they don’t have a spot in the META group 
Every single class should have builds good for BOTH SOLO and META groups…
Unfortunately it’s too hard to understand for some people I guess…
META groups are already clearing 150 GRs in less than 4 or 5 minutes, when SOLO players can’t even (aren’t allowed) to clear a 150 GR in 10-14 minutes, but yeah buff them even more
http://memes.ucoz.com/_nw/27/98086350.jpg
5 Likes
Sadly that is how game is designed. You can play out of group but you are less efficient. It is bad game design.
No lets not scr3w SOLO players. And yes each class needs good solo build. But I think GoD (when you look at max potential) is more than good. It is probably build that has the highest potential for solo push now.
Problem is, you need to fish for Missle Dampening elites to push the build to its maximum. That needs to changed. Build should perform more consistently with different monster sets and elite types, that would help you as solo player actually. Nerfing max potential for better overall performance would not hurt you much if at all.
As a solo player you should care what you can do with build each day and not only that one time when you decide to spend 1000 keys on pushing solo. Fixing how build interacts with Missile Dampening elites would also make it more easy to fish for good GR.
If you want to compete vs other people on solo LB’s you have all builds available as anyone else.
What Iria proposed would actually help you as solo player because you would do more damage when monsters are not grouped together tightly. When you are solo you don’t benefit from Barbs stomp and other players pulling/grouping abilities.
In non season no. You can’t do that even with 10K paragons.
1 Like
Great suggestion! I like especially the part with reducing the variance. 
4 Likes
They absolutely have to human test these suggestions before rolling out them out. The pierce mechanic and trash burnout is just too random to guesstimate.
No one can say the average pierces per poor, average and amazing grift – that alone makes it impossible to forecast without play testing.
2 Likes
This is a good suggestion, but the one issue I have with it is that under normal circumstances, Devouring Arrow with your new suggestion would actually be significantly improved to the point where instead of it being overpowered 5% of the time, it would now be overpowered 100% of the time, and it will still be drastically better than any of the other primary attacks. I’d like to provide an alternative.
Adjust the Quiver to only give the arrow +50% chance to pierce, which will mean 85% chance to Pierce for Devouring Arrow builds. The quiver will also have its damage bonus risen from 450-600% up to 650-750% because there isn’t a weapon to buff Hungering Arrow and it’s not actually a very effective skill when it’s not broken. I also included less of a range for the roll because the way it stands, finding a useful Satchel when you need lower than 20% attack speed is already hard enough as it is. Puncturing Arrow will enable it to achieve 100% chance to Pierce, but without the damage bonus per pierce. Other runes will become more useful as well, since you’re no longer giving up the absurdly high damage values that Devouring Arrow gave the ability.
To make up for this absolutely massive nerf, the 2PC GOD would be adjusted from 10% Primary Damage per stack of momentum to a straight-up 10% Damage per Stack of Momentum, enabling Strafe and Vengeance to benefit from the damage bonus making the set a bit more interesting for early-game players and allowing for more interesting hybrid build combinations, and the 6PC set bonus would be adjusted to increase Primary Skill Damage by 25,000%, which will equate to round +6-7 GR to all primary builds like Bola, Grenades, and Hungering Arrow, although the massive nerf to the quiver will result in devouring arrow builds being slightly less effective than they were before the change, while other builds will be brought up to a point where they’re only 3-5 GR levels behind devouring arrow damage-wise while being more able to simultaneously provide some supportive benefits.
I’ve also got some ideas for items to bring some of the other primary attacks up-to-par, I’ll post them in a new thread sometime.
I like your idea of decreasing reliance on devouring arrow.
My perspective is that each class should have an option to be DPS in meta with similar efficiency give or take a bit. It could either be as a trash killer or RG killer. A major issue is that the current meta setup has 2 guaranteed slots for zBarbs and zMonks, leaving 5 (or 7 ) classes competing for 2 DPS slots. With the upcoming balancing patch, hopefully there can be more diversity in competitive 4 man meta group composition.
I suspect that it may go through the same channels, however, the extent of internal testing may be very different. For an item with an existing damage modifier, changing the magnitude of that modifier is a relative simple operation with a low likelihood of causing issues. Introducing a brand new affix requires far more care and testing.
2 Likes
“I know math (probably more than you) so I know what I’m talking about.” That’s the most pompous thing I’ve read on these forums in a while…congrats on your knowledge of math I guess.
1 Like
Not many people with PhD in math play video games.
1 Like
20-pierces is just dealing 27% of 40-pierces. Limiting pierce count means 8 GR drop or so, but doubling the base pushes the gap to 4 GRs only. Is that really why DH get to be called overpowered? 4 GR nerf really solves it?
Manoman, I hope this happens, d. Can’t wait to circle back with you after the season is over to try this out.
#Impale4life
1 Like
My proposal is a nerf/buff. It nerfs the best case scenarios and buffs other situations. Of course, there is room to adjust the numbers so it could be 10 pierces or something.
I made the comment as a tongue-in-cheek comment to try and instigate a response (which it did with 100+ replies)! It’s not intended to belittle others.
As for the “I probably know more math than you” comment, I wrote “probably” for that very very rare case that someone might know more than me. However, I do hold a PhD in applied mathematics. It is true that Diablo 3 doesn’t require much math beyond simple sum formulas though. On the other hand, I have solved Schrödinger-type PDEs in my dissertation. I’ll put it as a spoiler so as not scare away math-averse people.
Stuff for Psikill **MATH WARNING**
In my dissertation, I didn’t solve the Schrödinger equation in the context of quantum mechanics but rather electromagnetic waves. Starting with the inhomogeneous wave equation for U(s,x,y,tau) where tau is the time variable (in units of length by multiplying by c),
Next, apply the following Fourier transform to the quantity s-tau:
This results in the following transformed wave equation:
Finally, if the source term S is slowly varying in s (as in the case of a relativistic charge moving in the +s direction), then the 2nd derivative terms in s can be dropped as an approximation. This is called the slowly varying envelope or paraxial approximation. In this context, the equation looks like:
This PDE is a Schrödinger-type PDE and it can be solved numerically with the right initial and boundary conditions. And yes, I did solve these types of equations with codes I wrote! 
If you are not Psikill, or did not heed my math warning, well congratulations for being exposed to some higher level math and surviving!
True, 20 may still be too high but it was just a starting point. It could be tweaked after a PTR. The damage multiplier cap is also an option that is alongside dmkt’s 70%->20% nerf idea. I want there to be more builds than just Devouring Arrow and that you can’t fish for the 0.0001% rift that puts you way above everyone else.
I know, I know! I did the “troll”-style intro as a tongue-in-cheek joke to posts in the general forum for more visibility and discussion, which has been pretty successful so far!
I agree, I proposed the 20 cap limit arbitrarily but of course it can be tuned. The idea was to cap it in some way though, either by a hard limit or your idea of reducing the multiplier increase to 20% from 70%.
Again, this was a joke to instigate a response, not belittle anyone. As I mentioned to Psikill, I did put the word probably in there to cover my butt in the off chance you’re Terence Tao or someone else with a Fields medal or Abel prize.
As for everyone else, thanks for your inputs and keeping this discussion alive. My goal for this thread has been achieved in attaining visibility and discussion. Do try to keep it on track though!