How to "easily" balance almost all items

General Discussion
1

There’s literaly ONE change that would balance all builds, to be at least 5-15 of each other maybe even 5-10 GRs.

Just Lower the 17% monsters HP per GR scaling to 4% or 6% (also lower mobs damage by half) and builds that could Solo 140-150 GR will now be doing 148-150 GR in 5 or 10 minutes, while those which were stuck at 130-135 will probably jump up to 140-145 GR. Worst builds from current META will probably do arround 136-145 (if you push) GR while the best 150 GR in probably less than 5 minutes SOLO with even a 2000-3000 paragon which is still better than 5000 or 10000 paragon.

Of course 10000 paragons will be doing 150 GRs SOLO in less than 4 or 3 minutes (maybe even 2), but they’re 10000 for crying out loud already, so they should be…

I bet that all those who are obsessed with balance and can’t stand that SOLO players can clear a 145-150 GR will attack me, but it won’t surprise me, cause that’s all they can do, criticize everyone who wants to make the game better for SOLO GR players, casuals or new players, cause they think that just because they can do 150 GR in 3 minutes in 4 Man META groups or spent over 10 hours a day playing the game are the only ones which word matters and everyone else is just an entitled spoiled brat who wants to have everything handled to him on a silver platter without putting any effort in the game at all… :roll_eyes:

Maybe I don’t have 7500 or 10000 hours put into the game, but I have over 1600 hours on my DH on my 2nd account and yet I haven’t found a single primal Yang Recurve bow from monsters drop or Kadala even on PTR EVER…
Anyway that only proves that I’m not a new player who just wants everything given to him without putting any effort at all…

Here’s how long I played each class on both America and Europe server on this account…

America server:

Barb - 722 hours 36 miutes
DH - 160 hours 33 minutes
Crusader: 6 hours 1 minute
Monk: 48 hours 52 minutes
Necromancer: 60 hours 2 minutes
WD - 407 hours 32 minutes
Wizard - 844 hours 53 minutes

Europe server:

Barb - 608 hours 59 minutes
DH - 861 hours 29 minutes
Crusader - 136 hours 21 minutes
Monk - 464 hours 10 minutes
WD - 219 hours 24 minutes
Wizard - 124 hours 42 minutes

Anyway this change will even probably allow class sets that could barely even clear a 80 or 90 GR to probably reach at least 110 or maybe even 125-130 GR…

All of these is just guessing and it’s impossible to know without proper testing…

5 Likes
2

actually a logical change. In groups, people play 150 without any problems and nobody gets bored immediately. even if there has been no content in d3 for ages. in groups there is still more exp and defense for chars with little def.

or: 844 hours 53 minutes and then still no “end-content” is possible?
maybe they make content for bots. who knows.
even in poe, i was able to trade mats for good equipment after 200 hours and tackle end-content.

edit:
just drunk pu’er tea …
i also noticed: actually lvl 150 only brings advantages for solo players. a lot of them still play in public games or alone. probably not with “OP” build either. In other words - they won’t find a group. after 1-2 weeks the game becomes pointless. because you can no longer achieve anything here or there is no exp in public games.

But if everyone manages 150 SOLO, then they can still compete on the top list. and instead of farming mindless paragon, they can concentrate on perfect or almost perfect items.
therefore, at the beginning of the season, the game will be played longer than now. for whatever reason.

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3

Well this is one of the most ridiculous things ive read in a while

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4

I still wonder why people care about “balance” between solo and multiplayer… they are not the same, and Blizzard has stated that their focus is multiplayer.

You won’t get balance for solo, when the option exists for you to play multiplayer. Be glad that they aren’t FORCING you to play multiplayer, and removing the ability to solo at all…

5

You’re… way too late call this out. People reached GR150 and items they acquired tweaked by minding the 17%hp and 2.5%dmg increase with each tier. Trying to retract those changes will be not only hard it will be rather impractical.

6

I do not think you understand exponential scaling. If we were to switch from 17% to 6% monster HP per GR, then

1.06^149 equals approximately 1.17^56

Therefore, your 6% scaling GR 150 would be equivalent to GR 56 in the current state. At that point, any set at paragon 800 would clear GR 150. Considering that many people clear GR 70 in 20 hours of game time, this scaling makes no sense.

That is not what the math demonstrates.

No. Math is not guessing. If you wanted to make the current GR 130 equivalent to GR 150, the 17% monster hp would need to be about 14.5%.

Your suggestion does not address balance, because OP builds could clear GR 150 with low paragon while other builds would need far more.

1 Like
7

Like I said I was guessing…

If what you said is true than I’m fine with 14.5%…

This would definately allow builds that could barely clear a 90 or even 100 GR probably reach to 110 or 120.

Once again I’m guessing. I’m not a math expert, so feel free to correct me.

Anyway the point is to make just like you said 150 GR equal to 130 GR, this way every class would have one, two or even three builds capable of SOLOing a 150 GR.
Right now 150 GR is EASY only for 4 Man META players (in 3 minutes in both season and non season at least on Europe server) who use it to level gems to 150 and than usually SOLO a 145-150 GR after pushing…

Players who only do GRs SOLO, can only dream of clearing a 125-135 GR, some even a 110 GR who can’t play the game for more than 6-10 hours a day and actually have a life…

1 Like
8

This does nothing to fix balance. Having one class that requires high paragon to barely clear GR 150 while another class can clear it easily with far less paragon in 7 minutes is not balance.

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9

His math is wildly off as you say, and just bloating everything to GR cap is not balance either.

2 Likes
10

I bet that even if we had ALL class builds balanced to be capable to clear a 150 GR Solo you would find something to complain about, probably that now every build is the same and not unique like it used to be when only one was OP and btw I figured your math out anyway and I think 14% would be better…

This would allow more than just 2 builds per class to SOLO 140-150 GR unlike now where some class builds can solo a 120-135 GR max while others can barely do a 100 or 110 GR…

All you people do is just criticize others ideas, so Blizz doesn’t have to change anything AT ALL, cause you’re happy with the current 4 Man METAS doing 150 GRs in 3 minutes (check Europe server leaderboards if you don’t believe) while when someone dares to SOLO a 150 GR his build gets usually nuked out of the orbit, but I guess you’ll do everything to protect your precious METAs… :roll_eyes:

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11

I would state the obvious issue. If this was done without rescaling solo HP, then group content becomes trivialized.

You can look at the current non-season leaderboard. Solo GR 150 clears for the top player in the world occur in about 11 minutes, top 4 man groups under a few minutes, but you alreadly looked at group clears to see I speak facts.

I am not sure what you mean by this. I advocate fairness. I main a DH. I think DH should be nerfed. It is about equity and not bias. Personally, I think solo monster hp should be rescaled to close the solo/group gap,

I do not want builds nuked out of orbit. I want OP build to have similar power to existing strong builds. Nerfs should be a surgical scalpel not a sledgehammer.

12

He’s got a slight point in the reduction of 17% per gr. What he forgot to add to it is make every item with a multiplier reduced to 100% and all sets to 1k% then start the balance all over. Yeah I don’t think that is an easy fix.

13

Yeah Solo in 11 minutes, but as always you forgot to mention they all have 9000-12000 paragon or abused the seaon theme in 4 Man META groups to get 150 rank games and than pushed up to 150 GR Solo… :roll_eyes:

As always you’re wrong when it comes to balancing anything in D3 RoS, just like you were with the lamentation belt…

Have you even played the GoD build At All?!. I think you just noticed some people on leaderboards in season who clearly ABUSED the season theme in 4 Man META groups to get 150 Rank gems and than pushed to 150 GR Solo and thought oh look they cleared a 150 GR with just 3000-4000 paragon, clearly the build must be OP… :man_facepalming:

I have over 400 hours on my DH in season 21 on my 2nd account (https://i.ibb.co/rfpMQZZ/DH-Hours.jpg) and I didn’t abused the season theme or played in a single 4 Man META group and only managed to clear a 123 GR Solo, that’s how OP this set is…Sure I didn’t fish for GRs and with my items I could probably get up to maybe 125-130 max, but trying anything above 123 GR gave me massive headaches…

If by OP you mean the GoD set itself than you even more clueless than I was with the mobs HP scaling until you told me how it works and I agreed on this with you, but when it comes to balancing builds you’re just like Jon Snow and know nothing…

There was a thread that covered the DHs GoD build problem and how strong it is and how to Fix it without breaking it or making completely useless:

Fun fact ALL of the GoD builds use Hungerring Arrow with Devouring Arrow which is why the set goes up to 150 GR after of course abusing the season theme, but that’s something you kindly forget to mention each time you post your tables with DHs 150 GRs clears in season by a clan that clearly uses THUD…

There was even a thread on the forum where a some poster couldn’t find or be part of a 150 GR META, because he wasn’t using THUD…

Goodluck clearing a 110-120 GR with DHs GoD set and bolas in non season without the OP season theme that was doing ALL the DAMAGE and below 1500-2000 paragon…

DHs have NO strong builds other than Impale, Rapid Fire LOD and even they can probably only do max 125-140 GR and here you come crying again for nerfs for the DH GoD set build even though it’s been balantly clear that the set itself isn’t OP AT ALL, but the devouring rune of hungerring arrow makes it strong…
Minor detail that of course you failed to notice…

For someone who advocates fairness you only ask for nerfs, but NEVER give any suggestions on how to improve other weaker sets, because hey it’s easier to ruin the strong set just to be again left behind other classes like Barbs were before they got the lamentation belt rend buff which you tried to take them away with all of your strength and put them back to the never ending zDPS position in METAs only and at the bottom of all builds with monk and DH as Damage Dealing classes…

1 Like
14

this story with OP is also ridiculous. what balance in a PVE game? I don’t want to and can’t get on here. Balance could be needed for a PVP mode at most. and this is also done in another game! skills are very balanced and do significantly less damage than in PVE. some weapons are even locked. devs have reacted quickly and are optimizing them.

under balance in a PVE game i can understand that every build can farm with 2k paragon lvl 150 grift. and not only SOLO but also in a group. and I shouldn’t care that I have 4 WDs in group!
because why shouldn’t it be possible? if there has been ZERO content in a game for 6+ years and always the same thing can be played maybe …
if CM or “dev” really wanted to improve the game, they would read the articles by “Psotnick” and others very carefully and implement everything … that would also be the minimum. or does “dev” not understand english or google translate does not translate my german correctly!!! maybe I should write “meow meow, fish good, make all builds playable meow” instead …
https://i.ibb.co/Q6p9KFB/katze.jpg

in the other game everything is optimized for SOLO players. where a group also brings many advantages and is often much easier. And there you can play a lot more than 10+ different modes in addition to normal rifts and bouties. everywhere there are higher enemies (with good AI) than in a lvl 150 Grift. In each mode there are various equipment and many other “OP” items as a reward.
I don’t even talk about dozens of daily quests with a chance for TOP equipment. the quests can even be accepted by a beginner with 0 paragon, because there is at least one guy doing “face-rolling” anyway. everyone get loot from mobs and reward at the end.
There are no KICK VOTES either. yes, you read that right! AFK people are removed quickly. if you are not too lazy you can take any character with good buffs or heal / give mana or defend a group. you can buff other players with 400% damage or group with 200%. I hope I don’t have to tell you how quickly the enemies are on the ground.
and there are also modes with defend, search for secrets, and levels with quests. It doesn’t get boring. especially because every few months content comes in with new items, characters as a reward, new modes, maps and new enemies.

in d3 i can’t even play characters from lvl 1 to 70 in a group. unless it is the first days of the season. I can’t find any players!
but in other games good items drop everywhere, also for hardcore players and even act1 is played very actively. of course you have the problem that sometime high level player with 10k para joins here and I’m just collecting the loot. But you can also meet a lot of beginners here, and I find players with the same level very quickly in the chat.
there are a lot more active players here than in d3 + poe or whatever …

so … instead of talking about weird balance … how about every build being playable. because … the suggestion from above is more than good!
and finally new items with skins like from wow 2005 are added? or is 1-2 hours a month too much work?

2 Likes
15

yes … just the statement that GoD is “OP” shows how much clue is behind it.
if someone has not yet played GoD: set doesn’t do anything right. he’s neither good trash nor boss killer. Skills don’t scale with mobs nearby.

and 400 hours are a lot. i would expect lvl 150 grift to be playable …

There was even a thread on the forum where a some poster couldn’t find or be part of a 150 GR META, because he wasn’t using THUD …

i’ll tell you more … in september i was looking for a group as zBarb, but nobody wanted to take noob like me. in community chats many wrote: “looking for barb who can see the timers”.
then i googled what the hell that could be. hey! thud has addon interface and can supposedly display it (and who knows what else). so much for that …

Yes. always the same topic there …
what nerfs if almost all sets are unplayable? and lvl 150 Grift has been impossible for SOLO players for ages?

it would still be okay if I had 20-30% less exp in a T16 normal rift than in lvl 150 grift and if ingame trading were possible. then I wouldn’t be interested in this boring Grift crap either.
In the other game it is completely different. you can easily get 3 or more lvl 150 gems for a mediocre primal.
and there I can look for goblins in act2 for months on my own. I don’t need to be interested in anything else! and I get the best items that way. cool, right? :wink:

2 Likes
16

Let me clarify two misperceptions.

  1. I always am clear that I use non-season numbers when discussing game balance. This is to remove confounders caused by differential effects caused by seasonal theme buffs. Basing balance as you suggest using seasonal numbers makes no sense as illustrated by zDPS solo players using the seasonal buffs to clear GR 150.

  2. The advantage of basing balance on top clears or even a 5K paragon metric is that it minimizes variables. As you can imagine, high paragon players have very good gear and the difference in power between 10k and 11k is far less significant in terms of power than 1k to 2k.

I have talked about balancing the GoD build in the threads you alluded to. I talk about the build and its reliance on a single rune (devouring arrow). I want GoD build to be nerfed relative to devouring arrow rune and have other primary skills buffed. I have stated that in multiple posts.

I predicted that @ 200%, the top worldwide solo non-season GR clear would be in the GR 144-146 range. I was widely criticized that my prediction was an outrageous overestimate. In the current era/non-season the top solo clear is GR 148 with the belt going live @ 150%. Therefore, you are factually accurate that I was wrong in my prediction about the strength of the ww/rend build as it was stronger than I predicted even after it went live as a less powerful lamentation version.

Yes. I played it this season. See the screenshot below,

Imgur

This is not true. I believe that you should nerf OP sets/builds and buff weak ones. During patch 2.6.6, I asked for both buffs (barbarians and monks) and wizard nerf. To prove this to yourself, use the forum search function with ““reiterate barbs @MicroRNA-1507”. These posts are just the tip of the iceberg where I unequivocally state that barbs needed buffs as they were underperforming in patch 2.6.6. When I ask for a buff, the idea is that the set should be powerful but not OP. Similarly, in the leadup to the current PTR, I advocate for buffs to monks and wizards.

Moreover, I never asked for the complete removal of the damage modifier from rend. I advocated at the time for a flat 100% damage buff that seemed consistent with the fact that Blizzard nerfed two builds where a grand total of 3 players worldwide in non-season had solo cleared GR 146 or above (thorns necromancer GR 147 (2nd best necro GR 142) and two wizard players (GR 148 and GR 146). It is about consistency and fairness. Why should blizzard nerf builds where the top clears are GR 147 and GR 148 to replace them with a build that does GR 147/148 (or for that matter GR 150 AoV crusaders). It does not seem equitable to me.

Unless you change monster hp for solo only, buffs that make GR 150 for low paragon players make group GR 150 clears even quicker than they are now.

In era 1, the top solo GR clear in non-season in the world was GR 60. Did you advocate for a 1,370,022X increase in DPS (yes it is more than 1 MILLION X increase in damage) so that players could clear GR 150? Of course, not. The problem is that concept of only buff never nerf leads to power creep where we have gone up astronimically in DPS.

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17

GR150’s would be a joke if they done that. Then players would be begging the devs all the more for GRs higher than 150. Maybe even asking the to double it to 300.

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18

which “people”? Who are you talking about ???
ok … you and who else ?!
i’m NOT AT ALL interested in such a mindless imbecility like paragon. i used to play d2 with mods and would never buy a colorful game for 6-13 year olds where you absolutely have to switch off your brain. (@Hello GoD DH gameplay)

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19

We could do something like that, but I would go even further (numbers are just for the purpose of illustrating te concept)

  • starting at GR Level 30, enemies health only increases by 4% per GR Level and their damage only by 3% per GR Level, and at GR ~80.it is only 2% increased Health and 1.5% increased damage.
  • take away at least one Zero from all damage multipliers from legendaries and at least two Zeros from all damage multipliers of sets.
  • cap Legendary Gems at Level 150
  • keep the XP at their current levels
  • try to balance it around that people that can do GR 140 now, still can do GR 140 after that number squish (not more, not less).

Again, numbers are just for the purpose of illustrating the concept.

20

We are talking about D3 not D2 or any other game. So please keep the comment on D3.

There are those that love a challenge. They wouldn’t just want to blow through things with the greatest of ease. Where even solo players would be able to easily get to GR150 within maybe a week or two. Then speed 150s would be all anyone would do.

So your solution is to make D3 even more of a mindless game where no one has to use their brain at all.