[Guide] Zodiac Rend (Season 20)

[Rage-13139]

@chris-11418

Stone guantlets+aughild vs band of might+mortiks+mantle?

Alright, let’s take a look. Like I said, I think the setup I suggested will just be too squishy, but let’s see. To get a really good look we kind of have to go down to “base armor”, stripping out stuff like IB, Taeguk, and Paragon armor% and then re-adding it, in order to see how much we’re getting from Stone Gauntlets.

I’ll use your seasonal character, who looks like he has about 35k base armor.

For BoM setup, that base armor gets multiplied by 1.75 (+25% paragon, +20% Taeguk, +30% IB), taking you to 61250 armor.

That takes you from 35000/38000 = 92.10% mitigation to 61250/64250= 95.33% mitigation. So, if taking 100 damage initially, you’d now take 4.67.

BoM cuts 80% of this, so 4.67 * 0.2 = 0.934
Mortick’s cuts 50% of this, so .934 * 0.5 = 0.467
MoC cuts 25% of this, so .467 * 0.75 = 0.350

For Stone Gauntlet setup, the 35k base armor gets multiplied by 4.25 (+25% paragon, +20% Taeguk, +30% IB, +250% SG), taking you to 148750 armor.

That takes you from 35000/38000 = 92.10% mitigation to 148750/151750 = 98.02% mitigation. So, if taking 100 damage initially, you’d now take 1.98. ((note that compared to the other setup, SG has reduced our damage by about 57.6% (1.98 vs 4.67), so considerably better than Mortick’s, but nowhere near as good as BoM)).

Aughild(2) cuts 15% of this, so 1.98 * 0.85 = 1.68
And, if considering damage from an elite…
Aughild(3) cuts 30% of this, so 1.68 * 0.7 = 1.18

So, even taking Aughild’s elite reduction into account as if it would mitigate all sources of damage, with this setup you will take 1.18 / 0.350 = 3.37 times as much damage, or in other words be less than 1/3 as tough… probably not sustainable, even for one of those botters who makes it to 7k paragon in season.

[chris-11418]

nope not gonna happen.

[chris-11418]

So I agree that his cooldown is way too low for 100% wrath. Even with hardcast rends and spear smashing he can not keep it up even close to 100%. His shoulders are garbage too. Even a non ancient triple would give him 8% more cdr. In all likelyhood he is taking very little damage is his 150s so wrath importance is reduced to only an offensive bonus. Another thing that stuck out is the fact he is using battle rage-into the fray which leads me further down that same path of him taking very little damage. On my personal build I have already tested dropping ploughshare for into the fray but im still not tanky enough. I will give into the fray another round of testing when I hit 7k.

[DieHarder-11668]

@Meteorblade-2266

So the 4th Cube slot was essentially worth roughly 2100 paragon to me.

How much does the clones damage factor in?

[DieHarder-11668]

@Rage-13139

I think if you want to take a crack at something unorthodox

Speaking of unorthodox, I’m going to run this S&B w/ Core/WW/Rend (in NS):

https://maxroll.gg/d3planner/421416008

It won’t have 100% WotB, but my damage output will still be greater (so it seems) than my IB/Crimson setup:

https://maxroll.gg/d3planner/832890172

So I’m kinda excited to see if my number add up and performs the they I’m projecting.

[chris-11418]

I can’t tell if your trolling or serious. Either way it’s bad!!! I will keep it simple and let you figure it out. WW alternates hands.

[DieHarder-11668]

I see what you’re saying, but I don’t think it works that way. You can’t alternate what you don’t have. I could be wrong, but I’m assuming that only one hand is going to register and that’s MH, OH (shield) is going to supplement MH damage w/ CHC/Phy%. There wouldn’t be be any major loss of damage because Rend detonates after one second. The only really loss of damage would be in Stricken stacks. Maybe Rage can shed some light on the matter.

[chris-11418]

You should ask him about a 1 hander being able to hit fast enough to stack rend twice too. Not gonna work!!!

[DieHarder-11668]

Ok, you’re saying that if I hit an enemy 3 times within 1 second (DW), all 3 hits are going to register by the time Rend detonates. If that’s the case, then yes, right. I guess I forgot that was the case. I thought that only 1 hit registered for that second, be it MH or OH.

Edit: now if what you’re saying is the case, wouldn’t we want increase IAS%?

[dallo28-2666]

That was indeed my thought. that build is tad weird. Sure 15k paragon do help, but still that gear is far from “fancy”.

That said, at mid to high paragon I don’t see how not having WOTB up the full time is a doable solution (and if not for damage, speed as well… every second counts).

So many options…

[Rage-13139]

@DieHarder-11668

Maybe Rage can shed some light on the matter.

For applying Rend via WW/Ambo, both your WW hits and your DD hits are going to stack Rend, so you’ll be plenty fast to keep up 2x Rend all the time that way. When stacking Rend via WW, in fact, it’s basically impossible to be slow enough that you don’t stack Rend 2 or more times per second, even if using the slowest 2H weapon you can find and no added AS anywhere.

But, when hard-casting, you only apply Rend at your sheet APS, which for you is 1.54, not enough to keep up 2x Rend, so that’s a damage loss. That said, it looks like you are not putting AD anywhere, so I suspect you plan on this being a spinning-only build.

You also are forfeiting a bunch of damage via CHD from an emerald in a 2nd weapon. You could make up for a good bit of that with CHC on your shield, but this particular Lidless Wall doesn’t have CHC… did you equip the wrong one?

D3planner doesn’t show what you have in your 4th cube slot… you might want to try putting RoRG there and running Crimson, trading MoC for Lamentation in the cube, and using Morticks rather than Parthans. Crimson now works with S&B, so you may well have the toughness to survive even without BoM, and the extra CDR will both buff your damage and help you to keep your skills off cooldown.

Anyway, looks fun to play with, but I don’t think this is going to be super-duper powerful, especially if you aren’t hard-casting. Good luck!

[DieHarder-11668]

@Rage-13139

For applying Rend via WW/Ambo, both your WW hits and your DD hits are going to stack Rend, so you’ll be plenty fast to keep up 2x Rend all the time that way. When stacking Rend via WW, in fact, it’s basically impossible to be slow enough that you don’t stack Rend 2 or more times per second, even if using the slowest 2H weapon you can find and no added AS anywhere.

Yep, it’s coming back to me, thx for the refresher.

@Rage-13139

But, when hard-casting, you only apply Rend at your sheet APS, which for you is 1.54, not enough to keep up 2x Rend, so that’s a damage loss. That said, it looks like you are not putting AD anywhere, so I suspect you plan on this being a spinning-only build.

Correct, I don’t dig the Hard-casting.

@Rage-13139

You also are forfeiting a bunch of damage via CHD from an emerald in a 2nd weapon. You could make up for a good bit of that with CHC on your shield, but this particular Lidless Wall doesn’t have CHC… did you equip the wrong one?

Yeah that’s the wrong shield. The right one does have 10% CHC.

@Rage-13139

D3planner doesn’t show what you have in your 4th cube slot… you might want to try putting RoRG there and running Crimson, trading MoC for Lamentation in the cube, and using Morticks rather than Parthans. Crimson now works with S&B, so you may well have the toughness to survive even without BoM, and the extra CDR will both buff your damage and help you to keep your skills off cooldown.

That is a solid idea, thx!

[Meteorblade-2266]

@DieHarder-11668

How much does the clones damage factor in?

I found the clone damage good up to GR110-115, still noticeable at GR120, but pretty much insignificant by the time I was doing above GR125.

[dallo28-2666]

After digging the web, sacrificing a goat to Diablo itself to find a bunch of “decently designed” rifts, the best combination I could find with my gear, stacking around 45 CDR and 118 AD, with BOBK active, works. And works better than crimson in density, and not to mention staying alive.

When the season will end, I’ll get a decent little rogue with 10% CDR, 24 AD, 9% damage (not primal…grrrr) and that should definitely help eventually removing BOBK, Brawler up, and let’s see…

Inspired by: https://maxroll.gg/d3planner/372646719
My setup right now after sort of fixing : https://maxroll.gg/d3planner/424448622

I eventually thought that if you can’t acquire decent CDR due to rolls, go elite damage on swords and keep BOBK up …

[Rage-13139]

@chris-11418

In all likelyhood he is taking very little damage is his 150s so wrath importance is reduced to only an offensive bonus. Another thing that stuck out is the fact he is using battle rage-into the fray which leads me further down that same path of him taking very little damage.

Lol, yeah, I just looked at his insane amount of mainstat (88k str) and was trying to figure out how much tankier my Leap barb would be with that much STR. Due to how well MOTE4 scales with extra armor, it turns out I’d have about 3x the toughness, or in other words 48 GRs worth of extra mitigation.

[chris-11418]

My only question is if mortiks is so trivial at that paragon level why not just run nems for an extra elite on conduit?

[Rage-13139]

Good question. And hell, on a big level you might even get another pylon before the conduit, so that’s two extra packs. Even without Mortick’s, he would have about 2.5 Billion toughness, which ought to be enough.

[Seras-11432]

Strong Arms is multiplicative right? I’d probably take that and give it a try for the deeps.

[chris-11418]

Either one would be helpful

[Rage-13139]

@Seras-11432

Strong Arms is multiplicative right?

Nope, additive… but it works on anything hit by a knockback, even if it doesn’t actually get knocked back.