After years of playing Hulks IK ww i dusted some old but quite good gear and did GR115(para 1850), was a treat, really enjoying ww again, used furios charge and strongarms - super agile. Looking forward to 120 with lamentation buff.
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I use CC, Bul khatos and unity (instead of BOM or COE). Instead of Wrenching Smash I use the shout with Demoralize for grouping. This gives me about 63%+constant up dmg from CC + 15% elite versus 25%from mantle and an average of 50% from COE which I think its better dps as its constant.
This setup also allows me to run IP which is also better DR than the BOM setup (50%Ip+50%unity+28%CC on top of 20% from shout) versus (80%BOM+25%mantle).
Just my 2 cents 
According D3planner, 2H tick is 2.5 APS.
Does this mean that Ambo’s is applying two stacks per second?
I still have some confusion, particularly around what happens at “Tick 3”.
You stated in an earlier response that
Is that actually the case, or is this just new language being imprecise? If Rend still ticks, but it just does the damage over 1 second, then all of my questions really don’t matter, and attack speed literally changes nothing.
If Rend still ticks:
0.0 - WW Tick 1: Apply Rend
0.2 - Rend tick 1
0.4 - Rend tick 2
0.6 - Rend tick 3
0.8 - Rend tick 4
1.0 - Rend tick 5, Rend falls off
Add in your follow-up WW ticks and you can see there’s no affect based on attack speed. Either:
If you have very low attack speed (this would never happen, but for argument sake, or if you move away from the enemy)
0.0 - WW Tick 1: Apply Rend
0.2 - Rend tick 1
0.4 - Rend tick 2
0.6 - Rend tick 3
0.8 - Rend tick 4
1.0 - Rend tick 5, Rend falls off
1.x - WW tick 2 and repeat the cycle
i.e. you’re doing full rend damage all the time, applying it as fast as you can.
Or, with more realistic attack speed:
0.0 - WW Tick 1: Apply Rend
0.2 - Rend tick 1
0.25 - WW tick 2, Rend2 applied
0.4 - Rend tick 2
0.45 - Rend2 tick 1
0.6 - Rend tick 3
0.65 - Rend2 tick 2
0.8 - Rend tick 4
0.85 - Rend 2 tick3
1.0 - Rend tick 5, Rend falls off
1.0+some lag I’ll address later - WW tick 4, Rend3 re-applied
1.05 - Rend2 tick4
1.2 - Rend3 tick 1
1.25 - Rend2 tick 5, Rend2 falls off
etc.
Here, you still get full benefit from all rend applications up to 2 applications. Lamentation allows AS to help you some rather than being entirely worthless. Essentially, once you get 2 stacks going, you will always have 2 stacks going except for the lag between Rend falling off and your next WW tick. There may be some way to optimize this, other than just making WW ticks come as often as possible…
If, on the other hand, Rend doesn’t Tick
If Ambo actually changes the behavior, and Rend now just detonates:
0.0 - WW tick 1, Rend Applied
0.2
etc.
1.0 Rend detonates and falls off
is much worse than:
0.0 WW tick 1, Rend applied
0.25 WW tick 2, Rend2 applied
1.0 - Rend detonates x2 and falls off.
I’m not sure that would be the behavior, though. If the rends track time independently, you get essentially the same behavior as the first example above, with 2 rends always going, 2 detonations happening per “second+lag in applying”.
And then
I actually don’t know what you mean here. Are you saying that hitting with WW-Ambo makes Rend do damage earlier or more often than it would if you just let it run it’s (admittedly just 1-second long) course?
I’m confused too. Everyone’s still trying to figure out how exactly WW Rend works. We’ll get there soon enough with the great help our community tester.
That’s the case–and we’ve thoroughly tested attack speed with Rend. What happens is that DOT ticks speed up, but the total damage done is the same regardless of attack speed.
Read Ambo’s description properly. It condenses ALL of Rend’s DOT damage into a single detonation 1 second after application. That’s the only reason Rend deals any truly significant damage (when coupled with Lamentation’s multiplier).
So, when you hit with Ambo’s, what happens is what I described, though the actual time interval between tick 2 and 3 might be less than 1 second, but you get the idea: You quickly apply 2 stacks of Rend, then they are detonated by Ambo’s.
Haven’t checked that in a while, but it should mean that you’re applying 2 stacks in time for them to be detonated. Of course, since a 2H is slower, you apply fewer overall stacks of Rend over the course of the rift, even if each one hits harder.
Justvwannacask: What item is CC?
Captain Crimson crafted set armor,…build uses 2 pieces…
The new Captain Crimson’s set. If you didn’t re-farm the plans in 2.6.6, you’ll need to do so and give them to the Blacksmith before you can make the new set.
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Ok, got it, not intetested in the set tho;)
I don’t want to discourage you from playing the build how you prefer to play it, but your setup is not as good as either setup.
What I mean is, the Crimson’s variant uses the CC set, but can use either Band of Might or Convention of Elements. Here’s a quick breakdown.
Band of Might > Unity for DR
Convention > Unity for DPS
Wrenching Smash > Demoralize for grouping, especially if you want to pack many mobs into an Oculus circle and maximize Into the Fray.
Err… that’s not quite accurate.
If we assume both setups have 30% DR from Crimson’s RCR set bonus, the build’s damage best potential toughness setup will look like this:
- Wastes set 50%
- Crimson’s 30%
- Mortick’s 50%
- Band of Might 80%
If we compare that to your setup, we have the following:
- Wastes 50%
- Crimson’s 30%
- Mortick’s 50%
- Unity 50%
- IP 50%
You have IP on the bar with Shout, which means you don’t have Ancient Spear. That automatically takes your clear potential down a few tiers, and like I said above, Ground Stomp > Demoralize for grouping. You’re also doing less DPS since you don’t have COE in the build. And as you gain more and more Paragon, Unity and IP become less and less important; even at the start of the Season, you’re better off folding them both into Band + Stomp because that combo helps you dish out more damage via Oculus and Into the Fray.
If you’re playing Hardcore, there’s a lot of merit to your approach since you absolutely don’t want to die! But if you’re playing Normal, you’re limiting your potential DPS and going overboard on toughness.
You should be. It’s currently used in 2 of our 7 major builds, and for good reason. It’s very powerful and complements WW and Pro-Slam well.
Many people are of the mindset that the most optimized version of the WW build uses the Crimson’s set, and I’m inclined to agree since it adds another potential 50-60% multiplier to outgoing damage and a nice chunk of DR.
I see this: “Attacking with Whirlwind also applies Rend and the total damage of Rend is dealt over 1 second”
Nothing there says that it detonates after 1 second or otherwise changes Rend’s behavior (i.e. it ticks every .2 seconds and displays every .8). It just says it does that damage over 1 second. I would take this to mean that it still ticks 5 times, but does x15 damage each tick.
When you say “Detonated by Ambo’s”, that confuses me, because it makes me think it is getting detonated early or something similar, not that it just does detonate 1 second later. I don’t think that’s what you mean though.
Is this the expected behavior according to your understanding:
0.0 - WW Tick1, Rend1 applied
0.25 - WW Tick2, Rend2 applied
0.5 - WW Tick3, Nothing happens
0.75 - WW Tick4, Nothing happens
1.0 - Rend1 falls off and applies damage
1.25 - Rend2 falls off and applies damage
So, none of this might be important. I am not sure. What you can see though is that if Rend applies its damage all at once, or if Rend ticks but doesn’t refresh during its 1 second duration, there could be a large increase in damage to be had by minimizing the time between when Rend falls off and when you reapply it. For instance, if WW ticks every .24, you have Rend fall off at 1.00s and it doesn’t get applied again until 1.2s - i.e. you are dealing 0 Rend damage 17% of the time. If you can slow WW down to .26 ticks (I am not looking up actual tick times yet, not sure if those are even possible values), then Rend gets re-applied at 1.04s and your damaging time goes up to 93% of the time - a 12.5% increase in damage by making your attack speed slower.
Nope.
Ambo’s effectively compresses all of the damage Rend was going to do over 15 seconds, then detonates it after 1 second. That is why it is so powerful.
Try it out for yourself.
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I Can’t Drive 5150?
Unfortunately I think we’re talking past eachother. I understand that it takes the original total damage which would have been done over 15 seconds, and does it all over 1 second. It makes it significantly more powerful like other DoT increasing items have for other classes/builds in the past.
However, both what I have described: 5 ticks every .2 seconds doing 15x damage, and what you have described: 1 tick (detonation) after 1 second doing 75x damage - they both do the same amount of increased damage over the same time period. Ambo’s only says it does it over 1 second. It doesn’t say it makes it tick less frequently or anything like that, so I’m wondering if it was actually tested and shown to be one big giant “detonation” or if that is somehow being assumed.
Free,
I think the use of “detonate” is confusing people. Ambo-Rend doesn’t deal all its damage at the end of a 1 second period, it ticks multiple times over that second (I just tested this). It’s the full 15 second damage (assuming you’re using Wastes), compressed into 1 second, dealt in a number of ticks.
JustinFan says that increasing your Attack Speed increases tick frequency, but the damage dealt is the same (i.e. each tick will presumably do less damage). This, I have not confirmed, but JF tends to be right about this stuff.
This is also confusing. Adding a 3rd hit/tick with WW doesn’t speed up the damage dealing process of Rend, it still always occurs over 1 second (just tested).
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Pretty sure Rob and sVr tested this when the ptr first dropped and confirmed its still the same damage regardless of how many ticks occur over that 1 second. It still equals the same amount of damage.
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I’m just glad that it should be applying two stacks. Thx for the response. Can’t wait for the update so I can start testing.
Right. I was just saying that I haven’t personally verified that, whereas the other stuff I was commenting on I just tested.
The thread in question with all that info is here: Rend mechanics 2.6.7 - #3 by sVr-21743
Posts #'s 3-40 have the most relevant info.
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