[Guide] MOTE6 Earthquake

2h weapons like Furnace have 1.00 APS and therefore have incredible high base dmg. Also 2h getting a bonus in damage compared to 1h weapons due to their lack of stats (especially additional socket) and 15% ias. I don’t know whats the percentage of that is but:

primal:
1.00 2h Mace = 3922.0 avg white dmg
1.40 1h sword = 2030.0 avg white dmg

EQ exclusively scales on a weapons white dmg and so on paper 2h deals 93.2% more white dmg than 1h weapons.

main reason to pick 1h would be IB with a 30% multiplier and a 2nd socket (130% crit dmg, which on high end gear is an increase of almost 25%) on top.
1.3 x 1.25 = 1.625 = 62.5% increased dmg

93.2 > 62.5

2x 1h would give some more stats, notable +24% AD
2h would benefit even more from 10% dmg roll compared to 1h

in the end it’s a difference of only 1-2 GR but 2h weapons for EQ are simply almost always better unfortunately.
also in that example you have 50% elite dmg on top (if equipping Furnace)…

Not exactly. You are correct that going from 1X damage to 3X damagesis equivalent to 7 GRs.

However, the 200% multiplier is in the dibs category so it is not a separate multiplicative multiplier. In the PTR build, the dibs goes from ~1.65X damage to 3.65X damage or about 5 GRs.

The other thing to consider is that one is obliged to equip and not cube Blades of the tribes to get the 200% dibs bonus on the PTR. If the dibs bonus does not go live, you can use 2 1-handed weapons with blades cubed versus the current clear of blades equipped and furnace cubed. The merits of these possibilities are being discussed by others so I will not weigh in.

what exactly are you calculating here?
the only thing I can think of is 2x 15% EQ from shoulders + chest and 10% from Bloodshed. which would be 45% or 1.45x dmg
it’s even questionable to go for the 15% EQ on shoulders with a 200% dibs weapon. I guess a cdr roll would be the better option here.

this all changes if there is no 200% dibs weapon. it makes those stats ALOT more valueable. also something like brawler is then a reasonable pick.

also:

Developer’s Note: This item had a standard affix that boosted earthquake by up to 200%, along with a legendary affix that boosted Avalanche and Earthquake. We’ve combined those two which means also buffing Avalanche at the same time.

so it’s pretty clear that the 200% dibs will disappear when the patch hits.

15% x2 on chest/shoulder
25% Threatening shout/Falter
10% Battle Rage/Bloodshed

Correct. That is why I mentioned there will be differences between PTR and live (e.g. on PTR you need to equip blade of the tribes which is not obligatory on live)

So, anyway, if this goes live as-is, I just change the Cube from The Furnace to the new Blade of the Tribes effect and keep wielding my primal Blade of the Tribes?

I thought the PTR was a complete mess of some existing blades being updated, some not, and so on. Was kind of hoping we’d have seen a fix for it in the mid-PTR patch.

Well, not really sure after this was posted in the blog:

  • Fixed legacy items stacking with the new items from this PTR: Gundo Gear, Blade of the Tribes, Scrimshaw, Belt of the Trove, Mortal Drama, Winter Flurry, Wizardspike, Etched Sigil, and Fragment of Destiny.
    Now if it is really fixed to stop legacy items from stacking, no, you can’t do that for any extra bonus.
    My take, it’s not fixed yet…

Nope, just did a fresh copy, and the 200% dibs is still on legacy items.

I wonder if the new team knows the protocol here, that the legacy items convert to orange text, but the value is the maximum previous, lower range (200%).

ah got ya.
I always thought demoralizing shout is the better option due to its pulling mechanic, creating density. on top you get 20% less dmg

but as you said, this will also change from my point of view, since without the 200 dibs I would also prefer falter in that case.

There are a few considerations missing in these numbers. Let’s take a look.

#1: weapon damage of various options.

I’m going to give the numbers with 10% damage added on in all cases. This doesn’t change the relative percentages, but it’s truer to the rolls you’ll be looking for. So:

1H Sword (1.4 aps): 2233 avg damage
2H Mighty Weapon (1.1 aps): 3996
2H Mace (1.0 aps): 4314

2H MW is +78.9% vs sword.
2H mace is +93.2% vs sword, and +7.96% vs 2H MW.

#2: AS increases Leapquake damage somewhat, because it reduces the frames required for Seismic Slam.

Based on my own analysis, plus D3 planner’s frame table for SS:

With Furnace, Slam takes 54 frames
With Tribes, 49 frames
With IB, 28 frames

So, a full cycle of 3 Leaps + 1 Slam:

Furnace: 205 Frames
Tribes: 200 Frames
IB: 179 Frames

A GR is 900 seconds long, which is 54,000 frames. In that time, you can execute different numbers of these cycles with each weapon choice:

Furnace: 263 cycles
Tribes: 270 cycles (+2.67% vs Furnace)
IB: 301 cycles (+14.45% vs Furnace)

If you are looking at a smaller increment of time, say, 90 seconds, the number of cycles goes down, but the relative proportions remain the same.

So, IB is actually giving you a non-trivial amount of damage, compared to Furnace, from added EQs, due to higher Slam speed.

#3: Hard-cast EQ is generally applied once every 3 cycles, so:

Furnace: 87 times
Tribes: 90 times
IB: 100 times

#4: An IB setup will have one extra CDR or STR roll, compared to Furnace.

For reasons I’ll get to later on, the ideal rolls on Furnace are Dmg%-AD-CDR. For the moment, let’s assume our IB has the extra CDR roll. That gives us 40% CDR when using Furnace, and 46% when using IB.

#5: effects of extra cdr:

With 40% cdr, Threatening Shout can be performed every 6 seconds, or 150 times per rift. With 46% cdr, TS can be performed every 5.4 seconds, or 166 times per rift.

In addition, WOTB’s cooldown goes from 54 seconds with 40% cdr to 48.6 seconds with 46% cdr.

#6: cumulative effects of added AS and CDR

The damage bonus of WOTB is actually about 1.7x when active (1.5x from Insanity and about 1.13 from added CHC).

With 40% cdr, your actual average buff from WOTB is ((20 * 1.7) + 34) / 54 = 1.259x

With 46% cdr, it’s ((20 * 1.7) +28.6) / 48.6 = 1.288x, an increase of +2.3%.

IB can deploy 903 EQs from Leaping, 100 from HC EQ, and 166 from TS, for 1169 total.

Furnace can deploy 789 from Leaping, 87 from HC EQ, and 150 from TS, for 1026 total.

1169 / 1026 = 1.1394,
1.1394 * 1.023 (WOTB bonus) = 1.1656, or in other words, IB gains +16.56% damage from extra AS and CDR.

#7: effect of extra CHD from 2nd Emerald:

With max rolls on gear, plus BR, you have 57% CHC.

(570 * 5.8) + 430 = 3736
(570 * 7.1) + 430 = 4477
4477 / 3736 = 1.1983, or a 19.83% increase.

#8: overall “base” damage increase:

1.1983 (chd) * 1.1656 (AS + CDR) * 1.3 (IB multiplier) = 1.8158

Still not as much as the 1.932 you get with Furnace. But, we aren’t quite done…

#9: effect of +24% AD

Going from 154% AD to 178% is a 15.58% increase in your AD, which gives an actual damage buff that depends on the number of targets within 10 yards:

1 enemy: +0.0% dmg (1.8158x total)
6 enemies: +9.4% dmg (1.99x total)
11 enemies: +11.8% dmg (2.03x total)
16 enemies: +12.8% dmg (2.05x total)
21 enemies: +13.4% dmg (2.06x total)
26 enemies: +13.8% dmg (2.07x total)
31 enemies: +14.2% dmg (2.07x total)
(This number trends towards the AD % increase, in this case 15.58%. But, 30 adjacent enemies is getting close to the limit of actual density in most cases.)

So, you can see that for just flat-out damage, IB marginally surpasses Furnace when you throw even a small number of mobs together. 1.99 is a 3.2% increase over 1.928, and 2.07 is a 7.4% increase.

#10: Elite damage of Furnace

This one goes pretty handily in the favor of Furnace… +50% elite damage is damn good!

#11: why you need CDR on Furnace

It’s because you don’t have +24 max fury like you do with Blade of the Tribes. This makes it harder to cooldown your Leap via Slam, which cuts into your damage (and also makes it more likely you’ll get hammered into the ground by a berserker, blown up by a molten explosion, or cut in half by arcane beams). You can remedy this by taking Gogok, but this means you can’t take Zei’s, which is by far the best 3rd gem in terms of damage: up to +16% damage (almost 1 GR) even at zero yards of distance, and considerably more at larger distances. Tribes + Zei is considerably better than Furnace without Zei, so you need that extra CDR with Furnace in order to ensure that everything runs smoothly, while being able to take Zei.

#12: conclusion

Furnace will be better than IB… but not by much.

Addendum: Blade of the Tribes

Because it can have that +max fury roll, you don’t need to take CDR when carrying Tribes. Instead you can take STR (along with AD + dmg%) which will generally be best, especially At low paragon, where carrying Tribes can modestly outperform Furnace. Once you pass about 16k STR, however, a primal Furnace with AD-dmg%-cdr will be a little better than any possible Blade of the Tribes (about 4.5% more damage).

Addendum 2: IB armor bonus

The IB armor bonus is not super valuable, since it is additive with the +25% from paragon and the +375% from MOTE4.

The additional 30% from IB adds 5-6% additional mitigation. Not nothing, but not essential.

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So how does this answer, if MotE Leap is a thing in S22?? Or non-season for that matter?

In either season or non season, you’ll be able to carry Tribes, Furnace, or IB, and all of those will work well and have <1 GR of difference between them.

Carrying Furnace will be best, by a very small margin- IF you get above 16k str and get the correct rolls.

4th cube slot will be CoE.

MotE vs GoD, grift different?

GoD will be at least 8 GRs stronger.

all great insights and I wouldnt argue with any of them, however:

1st my english is probably not well enough to give a satisfying response to what you just stated. I mainly want to respond so you know I notice the effort youve done in your reply ^^

however, diablo is not all maths. many of your points lose some value in an actual GR you play. it’s also a reason that some of them - even though noticing them as well - I didnt even mention.
you gather density , change floors, maximize conduit, etc. also in an actual GR push.

The AS depends of the kind of build you’re using, and YEP alot of the arguments youre giving here actually promoting that Lightning EQ build we talked about even further (10% CDR is HUGE there. even smoother). However as I said I don’t see it.
Those Frame differences can be neglected as many of the other points.

Try it. Over many rifts you will notice that IB isn’t really a thing. since the difference is not as crazy you won’t notice it immediately.
But yes, Furnace 50% elite is the main reason for that (you also mentioned that)

You… do know I’ve played more Leapquake than basically everybody else, right?

None of this stuff is purely theoretical. I’ve noticed the frame difference in Slam every time I’ve popped WOTB, used Gogok, tested with IB, etc. Poconut was just talking about it the other day, too. S4v4g3 used to talk about it on the old forum. I’m sure we aren’t the only ones.

Other than that, if upsides for IB like “more CHD” and “more CDR” and “more AD” are “just on paper”, then the benefits of Furnace or Tribes- “more weapon damage” , “more Elite damage”- are just on paper too.

All that said, I do think Furnace will come out on top, by a small margin. The benefits of IB almost bring it up to where it’s equal to Furnace. Almost, but not quite.

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I know that you’re basically the Leapquake guru here.
However I also know that you had not much time to test IBs actual damage in comparison since the cubeable BotT exists for like… a few days on PTR.

I’m very tired and I also mentioned my language barrier, both is not useful for those in depth analysis I guess.
I’m actually surprised I still got some energy left to continue doing similar things I did at work all day ^^

my comment was mainly refering to AD and that for most solo push builds AD is actually a bit overrated because of the fact that you almost never fight against big clusters of enemies.
if you clear the density faster and still stay for the big mobs then ADs benefit gets almost completely lost (if you sacrifice dmg for it).
if you take 20 instead of 30 sec to clear the density you don’t actually do 66.6% more dmg during that time if it took you 1 min to prepare the pull you need to take that into consideration (some raw examples that never happen like that, especially not with Leapquake 1:1 but I think you get my point)

pure dmg numbers like 10%dmg on weap, 50% elite on furnace are flat dmg increases and they’re not affected but those things.

If you want to think purely theoretical how soemthing is applied in a practical setting then it’s a necessity to sometimes think out of the box.
in the end however you personal experience will be king anyway.

on most things - almost all in fact - I actually dont even disagree with you.
in the end we come to the same conclusion anyway.

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Fair enough- reasonable people can certainly disagree!

On a different note, can I talk you into recording some serious pushes with LightningQuake once the patch goes live?

Because I definitely ought to add this setup to the guide. It’s fun, it’s interesting, and it will probably surpass Phys Leapquake in the coming patch, since the share of Phys’s damage accounted for by Slam is not getting buffed.

So it seems pretty silly for me to have Phys in there, but not Lightning.

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Hi.
Thank you Free, Savage and Rage for great innput on Mote builds.
I use CoE instead of BoM for pushing Gr’s .

My point is that we dont only need the buffs on dps, let me include i hope we can keep 200%dibs and 800% on blade, but there should be done something about the CC problem from monsters. Include a 3rd 2nd stats on gear or maybe include X% CC resist on esoteric.

For me this CC problem kill almost all will to try push further.

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Hi Incinerate,

Nice to hear from you. I’m actually a little familiar with you: you cleared 122 with a CoE setup back in Era 11, right? And you dropped by Shamue’s Twitch channel occasionally?

I hear what you’re saying about CC. That can be mostly addressed by getting some extra CC resist rolls on gear. You could have as many as 4 40% rolls (helm, ring, ring, amulet), which would give you about 87% CC resist. You can also try maximizing your CDR- for instance taking “extra” rolls on gloves and weapon- in order to have WOTB accessible more often.

That said, I think that with a CoE setup, the more likely problem you will face in the new patch is simply incoming damage. Because the new Tribes (assuming just the 800% multiplier) gives us +9 GRs of damage, this translates into also taking about 23% more damage from enemies. That will be tough to take for a non-BoM setup, even when using Esoteric. Possible, but tough.

As for Esoteric itself, I’m pretty doubtful that will change. I started a thread a while back trying to get Blizz to revise gems, but nothing ever came of it. Also, Esoteric is already by far the best defensive gem- head and shoulders above other options like Invigorating, Gizzard, Mutilation, or Moratorium. So if they ever do think of altering some gems, I think Esoteric will probably be near the bottom of the list.

Anyway, I hope you will not give up on Leap! It is a fantastic build, as I’m sure you’re aware, and it’s always good to have another skilled player around. If you have any other questions, just let me know.

There was a good bit of discussion that happened since last I checked! A fair bit to read. Also loved seeing a mention of S4v4g3, that takes me back.

I’ve been giving a few trials of some different methods when it comes to the 4th cube slot and I almost never play the top performing variant of LQ. (Mostly because I enjoy Esoteric as a gem alongside trapped and stricken, as it allows me to make several mistake leap landings the higher I push) Also, I like to pile on as much physical damage since I physquake and pump up RumbleSlam. I still wish that Rumble’s damage was a one shot instead of how it works now, given some bosses enjoy moving out of it before the second hit happens.

That said, I opened to carry Tribes, cube slam hammer as per normal for me, and 4th cube the Fjord Cutter. This obviously makes it super important for me to remember skipping Juggernaut elites, but it makes mince-meat out of most trash packs I encounter. Comes also at the cost of using Parthan’s since I’m opting for SS bracers and an Esoteric.

I enjoy it mostly because the frames from FCutter help me to get back into dropping leaps in a much smoother feeling since the buff on SS belt is so short. Missing out on CoE + Furnace is bound to make me hit a wall earlier, but I’m looking forward to testing out just how far I can make it with this variant come S22. My post doesn’t really contribute anything and I’m sorry for that xD, but it’s 2AM and I got all excited again that we have +800% damage on EQ and Avalance and I had to word vomit something.